Topic: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*

[Chozo Ghost]

BUT IT'S ONBOARD STORAGE. IT'S LITERRALLY ON. BOARD.

Phew! Well, that's a relief. I was worried for a minute that 8GB of storage space wasn't going to be enough to download huge amounts of GC games and DLC. I guess my fears were unfounded. Its onboard storage so everything's fine, right?

/sarcasm

[BlackNMild2k1]

I guess you've never heard of an SD card (expandable upto at least 64GB)... you know like the one in the 3DS where you can boot directly from it

/not sarcasm

[Chozo Ghost]

But honestly, even 64gb wouldn't be enough. Broodwars pointed out in another thread how he has to frequently uninstall his old games on his 160gb PS3 in order to have room left on it. So if 160gb is a struggle to get by with then how is 64gb going to work? Not to mention the fact that the 64gb requires an additional purchase from the consumer and isn't going to be a default feature of every system. That means that developers are goign to be less likely to fully support the system with DLC and other content.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Do you know why there is a need to install games on the PS3?
Besides not wanting to swap disc, it's because it's a 1st generation BRD drive and is kinda slow at reading through the GB's of data.

The system Nintendo uses (CAV I believe) allows them to access data more efficiently, so even if they used a Bluray drive it should be multiple times faster than a PS3 drive and since it will likely have a different file system, they now have 2 reasons why they should be accessing data faster than the PS3 drives. Therefore outside of not wanting to swap disc, you shouldn't need disc installs.

But at the same time optional HDD's haven't been ruled out, as the only thing that was mentioned was the onboard storage, like the Wii, 3DS & 360slim all have.
All 3 of those have optional extra storage and the latter 2 of the 3 even let you boot software from them.

You want to store DLC, buy an SD card, maybe Nintendo will even be nice (like with the 3DS) and throw a SDHC card in the box with the system. 16GB plus the 8GB onboard should be plenty for 95% of the customer base.
Most DLC probably wouldn't be over 100MB anyway, most Wii2Ware probably won't cross .5GB & outside of the possibility of GC games on the VC, no VC games are gonna be bigger than 256MB, so 8GB + 16GB expanded will cover almost everyone.

for those that need more, 32GB cards are not that expensive and get cheaper every year and with the background OS approach, in/external HDD's shouldn't be an issue should the need arise if support wasn't included from the start.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Rumor Consolidation 2011

September 2010:
-Itagaki of Team Ninja hints at game Devil's Third being made for Wii2

October 2010:
-Marvell QuadCore processors for new console - *This might have had something to do with Kinect, But I don't remember.
-IBM implies that Wii2 uses Cell based PPC

November 2010:
-Marvell Quad cores gets a large order: From large console manufacturer - *once again might be Kinect related.
-House of the Dead: Overkill 2 in the works 
-EA reviving NFL Blitz

December 2010:

January 2011:
-UltraViolet Media Cloud service coming to a console - Most Likely Sony since Sony is a partner.
-New Pokemon game for Wii

February 2011:
-Wii2 announcement coming soon according to THQ

March 2011:
-Wii2 announcement coming soon according to EA
-AMD working on CPU/GPU combined chip for console due for release @ end of 2012; Told to bring schedule in for earlier release

April 2011:
-Monster Hunter 3DS to be announced soon
-SSFIV3D connects to home console - Hint @ Wii2 from Capcom and 3DS -> Wii2 connectivity
-Wii price drop to $150 on May 15th *Confirmed*
-Wii2 announcement @ E3: 1080p HD, More powerful than PS360, BC with Wii, release late 2012 *Partially Confirmed*
-New Wii2 controller has HD screen built in
-Wii2 to use Bluray technology
-Wii2 actually aimed at early 2012 release (1st half 2012) *IGN backs this up in their mailbag*
-Controller Screen is actually a Touch Screen
-Project Cafe: Wii2 Controller is a Tablet: 6" touch Screen on Controller, front facing camera & doubles as sensor bar for BC *Codename Confirmed*
-Dual Analogs, Streaming & Games Wii2 controller to rival 3DS, NGP, iPhone & iPad apparently
-1st & 3rd Party games @ E3 EA, Ubisoft & Capcom all but confirmed
-Wii2 = TriCore PPC & R700 class GPU w/ 512+MB Ram Another surprise to be shown @ E3
-3rd Parties have had Wii2 Dev Kits for Months, Has better Motion Tracking than Move
-Pikmin 3 moved to Project Cafe to be shown @ E3; Nintendo also in talks with R* for solid AAA support.
-Wii2 launch June 2012; Rockstar delivering game (?GTA V?) during launch window
-Wii2, 3DS & E3!? Oh Yes!!; 3rd Parties taking a front seat this time around.
-Retro working on Wii2 game; and it's "a project everyone wants us to do" (Starfox? Zelda? New Original FPS?)
-Wii 2 will not be Dreamcast, it’ll be “the PlayStation 2 of next gen�; A true next gen console? sounds like it.
-Retro's new game is actually Eternal Darkness 2?
-"Where there's smoke, there's fire" - Miyamoto's comment on Project Cafe - He also said not to believe everything you hear though.
-Wii2 controller has a 6.2" screen and 8 buttons
-IGN: The N Stream (Wii2) Details "confirmed"?
-1up says: No Friend Codes for Wii2
-Retro making DKCR sequel for Wii2?
-Project Cafe Codename Confirmed; 01net rumors now have even more credibility
-4Chan Cafe "Leak"?; Sounds like a wishlist to me.
-Rareware to make 3DS games?; not sure how likely this one is, but Rare did release DS games
-Nintendo Select = $19.99 Players Choice line? *Confirmed*
-Project Cafe E3 Publishers List?; More than likely fake, but the real thing will probably still be close

May 2011
-Haptic Feedback & Vitality Sensor Built In?
-Project Cafe: 8GB onboard Flash, 25GB disc & 1080p
-Track Pad in the Cafe Pad?; Just because I don't believe it don't mean it's not possible...
-GTAV to be revealed @ E3?
-$350+ Wii2 starts production in October
-MS to steal Nintendo's thunder @ E3?
-Zumba Fitness 2 for Project Cafe? to be announced/released early 2012!?
-Pikmin 3 & Endless Ocean 3 screenshots? They're likely fake, but what if they aren't.... E3 is still so far away.
-IGN: Cafe to use a 4850? maybe 2GB's of RAM (1GB GPU & 1GB CPU)?

[ShyGuy]

it is May.

[BlackNMild2k1]

yes you are right. I'll fix that right now

[Adrock]

I could see Nintendo releasing 2SKUs, one with a HD and one without but still upgradable should one decide to buy one separately. Seriously, though, SSD or GTFO. The prices are going down. In any case, Nintendo needs a solution to this and if they don't, that's pretty much going to prove how serious they are about supporting 3rd parties who love DLC since Gamestop can't get a cut because DLC can't be traded and resold.

I'm still curious why Nintendo would even consider optical discs when they don't even like the format and already support the format they prefer. Most games are well under 8GB in this so-called "HD era." What does Nintendo have to gain by having a 25GB disc, especially when they have to pay Panasonic for the parts? With Nintendo most likely shunning DVD/Blu-Ray playback (which is fine by me, I have a PS3 that I don't play games on), the only advantage is the price difference between discs and cards which isn't that large anymore. What hogs up memory these days? CG and uncompressed data. No one needs 25GB's of disc space no matter what Sony says.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I could see Nintendo releasing 2SKUs, one with a HD and one without but still upgradable should one decide to buy one separately. Seriously, though, SSD or GTFO. The prices are going down. In any case, Nintendo needs a solution to this and if they don't, that's pretty much going to prove how serious they are about supporting 3rd parties who love DLC since Gamestop can't get a cut because DLC can't be traded and resold.

I say 1 SKU with the option to add storage to match your needs and budget. No reason Jack & Jane shoudl buy a $349 Wii2 with a 250GB HDD in it when they don't need it and won't use it when everyone could have bought a $299 Wii2 w/ no HDD and then spend $30 on that same 250GB HDD later when I felt I would actually need it.

I'm still curious why Nintendo would even consider optical discs when they don't even like the format and already support the format they prefer. Most games are well under 8GB in this so-called "HD era." What does Nintendo have to gain by having a 25GB disc, especially when they have to pay Panasonic for the parts? With Nintendo most likely shunning DVD/Blu-Ray playback (which is fine by me, I have a PS3 that I don't play games on), the only advantage is the price difference between discs and cards which isn't that large anymore. What hogs up memory these days? CG and uncompressed data. No one needs 25GB's of disc space no matter what Sony says.

Portability with PS360 & PS4/720
Does Nintendo really want to be the only hardware stuck with an 8GB disc format when everyone else is pumping out games that fill up BRD's?

Lots of games may still take up less than 8GB today, but I'm guessing alot of that is because 360 is the lead platform and most of the games don't actually run at 1080p. I'm pretty sure that most games even at 1080p won't need 25GB of space, but you gotta see and plan a little further in the future than just tomorrow when you are planning a system that is supposed to last from 2012 to 2017 at the very least.

[Ian Sane]

Maybe Nintendo is going with 25 GB discs to allow for easy multiplatform releases.  Yeah you probably don't need 25 GB but Sony offers 25 GB so if someone does make a huge game on the PS3 they can put it on the Super Wii without having to compress things or move to multiple discs or whatever.  Or it might honestly be cheaper to just use Blu Rays then to come up with new format and they figure DVDs might be too out-of-date to compete with any PS4 or XBox 720 coming out in the future.

It would be nice of Nintendo just supported SD cards and Hard Drives.  Seriously if they just let the user decide what they want to use then it becomes less of an issue.  That way if SD cards become the affordable solution then it supports it but at the same time hard drives are the more affordable solution right now.  It provides flexibility for the future and the present.

[Adrock]

I say 1 SKU with the option to add storage to match your needs and budget. No reason Jack & Jane shoudl buy a $349 Wii2 with a 250GB HDD in it when they don't need it and won't use it when everyone could have bought a $299 Wii2 w/ no HDD and then spend $30 on that same 250GB HDD later when I felt I would actually need it.

Selling it separately costs more.

Portability with PS360 & PS4/720
Does Nintendo really want to be the only hardware stuck with an 8GB disc format when everyone else is pumping out games that fill up BRD's?

Lots of games may still take up less than 8GB today, but I'm guessing alot of that is because 360 is the lead platform and most of the games don't actually run at 1080p. I'm pretty sure that most games even at 1080p won't need 25GB of space, but you gotta see and plan a little further in the future than just tomorrow when you are planning a system that is supposed to last from 2012 to 2017 at the very least.

/facepalm

Cards don't magically stop at 8GB. For games that need it, larger cards are available. By the time anyone would even need it, the prices will have dropped tremendously. Also, if Nintendo can become the lead platform, a game that fits on an 8GB card will probably only use 8GB on other platforms even if there's 25GB+ available.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I answered you question as the benefit of using a 25GB disc over a not 25GB disc instead of alternately using a comparable size flash drive.

a cartridge based flash disc would be too expensive to use in place of a disc especially at the number of GB's they are planning on needing. To press a BRD probably cost $0.70 per disc while a 10GB flash cart might cost a 3rd party something like $8 a cart.
That extra cost is gonna get transfered onto to someone because the 3rd party ain't gonna eat it.
I can bet you money that Nintendo ain't gonna eat it and the retailer ain't gonna eat it, so I'm sure you won't like it when you could either buy a game on the PS360 & 'PS4/720 for $60 or the same game on Wii2 for $70.

so go ahead and remove you palm from your face and instead reach your hand in your pocket, because that is where you would be starting to hurt the most.


edit: Selling it separately & non-proprietary allows me to buy for my needs at my price vs Nintendo justifying a higher price for marked up goods that I could have bought cheaper online.
see the 360 HDD ($100 for "proprietary" 2.5" laptop HDD's that could be bought online for $30)
or Xbox360 w/ HDD = $299 but w/o HDD = $199 (I can buy 2x the HDD space for 1/2 of the $100 they are charging)
or 360 Wifi ($100 for a wifi card that cost $20 anywhere you look for the PC)

[Ian Sane]

a cartridge based flash disc would be too expensive to use in place of a disc especially at the number of GB's they are planning on needing. To press a BRD probably cost $0.70 per disc while a 10GB flash cart might cost a 3rd party something like $8 a cart.
That extra cost is gonna get transfered onto to someone because the 3rd party ain't gonna eat it.
I can bet you money that Nintendo ain't gonna eat it and the retailer ain't gonna eat it, so I'm sure you won't like it when you could either buy a game on the PS360 & 'PS4/720 for $60 or the same game on Wii2 for $70.

I don't think it would be us paying $70, I think it would be us not getting the game at all.  $8 vs. 70 cents?  That's not even close.  This would be N64 territory.
 
Despite what Nintendo thinks the world honestly is not that concerned with load times and sure as hell is not interested in paying a premium to avoid them.

[BlackNMild2k1]

a cartridge based flash disc would be too expensive to use in place of a disc especially at the number of GB's they are planning on needing. To press a BRD probably cost $0.70 per disc while a 10GB flash cart might cost a 3rd party something like $8 a cart.
That extra cost is gonna get transfered onto to someone because the 3rd party ain't gonna eat it.
I can bet you money that Nintendo ain't gonna eat it and the retailer ain't gonna eat it, so I'm sure you won't like it when you could either buy a game on the PS360 & 'PS4/720 for $60 or the same game on Wii2 for $70.

I don't think it would be us paying $70, I think it would be us not getting the game at all.  $8 vs. 70 cents?  That's not even close.  This would be N64 territory.
 
Despite what Nintendo thinks the world honestly is not that concerned with load times and sure as hell is not interested in paying a premium to avoid them.

That may be the case, and I'm sure a few would try it at first, but when the game doesn't sell, it would lead to the same problem that the N64 had; Low 3rd Party support due to size vs cost... N64 lost on both of those & Wii2 would too.

[Stogi]

As a person that looks at file size often, I can say to you that most games DO exceed 8 gb (at least on the PS3). God of War was 48 gb!  Killzone was 46 gb! A reasonable game like Fifa 11 is 12 gb. Black Ops was 14 gb. The only games that are less than 8 gb are short 1 player games like Force Unleashed. On the flipside, Uncharted is 32 gb.

I do not know what Nintendo will use as their format, I just hope 3rd Parties give a ****.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Fifa 11 & BlOps on PS2 were those size, but how big were the 360 versions?

I ask because a lot of PS3 games dulplicate data because of how much space is on the disc and how long it takes the PS3 drives to read that data. It's easier & more convenient to duplicate the data all over the disc than it is to have long load times or smaller areas in the game.

[Stogi]

They aren't duplicated. These are rips of the game made specifically to be played off the external/internal harddrive.

There are some games like Killzone 3 where you can forgo the 3D version of the game, dropping it to ~20 gb.

[Stogi]

I just looked up a torrent that had 62 PS3 games on it with a download size of 535.7 gb. That comes out to around ~9 gb per game. Again, all these games have been ripped to be played on an external/internal harddrive.

[Ceric]

Fifa 11 & BlOps on PS2 were those size, but how big were the 360 versions?

I ask because a lot of PS3 games dulplicate data because of how much space is on the disc and how long it takes the PS3 drives to read that data. It's easier & more convenient to duplicate the data all over the disc than it is to have long load times or smaller areas in the game.

I think this is sort of ironic because of the load time don't matter argument.  I mean seriously I've been looking into some old RPGs and a lot of the version to get is because of load times.  Same with Portal 2.  With all things equal if the load times on one platform is non-existent I'm sure people who know would go for that one.

[Stogi]

Assassin's Creed's load times piss me the **** off. If load time screens where more like Fifa, where I could kick around a ball and shoot on goal to pass the time, then I wouldn't mind. But in Assassin's Creed, your stuck in a matrix like room devoid of anything and it lasts forever.

I would love for Nintendo to go with carts.

[Adrock]

I remember reading that an N64 cart cost 3rd parties something like $20 vs. a CD at $1. That's not even close to what you're suggesting. The largest N64 cartridge offered 10 times less storage at 20 times the price. And that was at a time when developers were filling entire CDs. No one has filled an entire Blu Ray with actual content. A lot of it is uncompressed data. Just seems like Sony trying to justify Blu Ray than Blu Ray being a superior format.

You can try to argue that 3rd parties would balk at the extra cost but Nintendo's been using cards for 6 and a half years now and no one has complained. Obviously, Cafe games would ship on larger capacity cards. An 10GB card today might cost 3rd parties something like $8 per card, "today" being the operative word because it won't cost that much a year from now. And that's assuming they'd even need that much storage space. They wouldn't order 10GB cards if their game is, for example, sub-5GB thus reducing the price even more.

DS cards cost more than UMDs but that didn't change anything. Wii used regular sized DVDs, that didn't change anything either. It was also cheaper to develop for. There are other factors. Cartridges were certainly a deterrent on N64, but so was its awful hardware architecture. 3rd parties will support hardware they deem worth supporting. That's really the bottomline here. That and Nintendo doesn't even like optical media. Technology has finally caught up to the point where Nintendo can abandon it. For a game console, cards are a superior format. That's why I even brought this up. Nintendo marches to the beat of their own drum. This seems like something Nintendo would do and for once, I actually don't think 3rd parties would scoff at the decision so long as Nintendo provides them with quality hardware which, if the rumors are true, they are... finally. If 3rd parties feel they can make a profit, they'll support anything.

With all things equal if the load times on one platform is non-existent I'm sure people who know would go for that one.

/internet five

And to think I said all those terrible things about you. I take back (some of them).

[BlackNMild2k1]

I assume you are talking to me and I agree that carts would be the way to go, but I'm just answering your question as to why to go with an Optical medium over proprietary carts.

I would love ZERO load times, but I wouldn't like to pay an extra $10 for them per game.

The reality is that devs are gonna push the size limit as much as they can and they will be lazy with uncompressed and unoptimized code. The easier it is to fit it onto a Nintendo medium the more likely that it will be released on the Nintendo console. So if the 3rd parties tell Nintendo to just use the optical media that can dual layer upto 50GB for a few pennies more per press, then I would rather Nintendo use the optical media instead of being bull headed, like in Nintendo's past, and get the multi-platform titles as they appear on other platforms and not gimped with things cut out because 3rd parties got lazy.

[ThePerm]

well dvds only go to nearly 9 gb, bluerays are more expensive than flash cards...

im thinking maybe Nintendo will nix backwards compatability and tell people if they want to play gamecube games than get a wii, an even better idea would be to allow them for download if you already own the game.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Looks like Nintendo may have filmed Cafe's E3 Promo Video last week
http://twitter.com/#!/supererogatory

Told Nintendo filmed Cafe E3 promotional videos last week in Orange County with a bunch of seeming hand models cast "based on their hands."

The hands "had to be flawless" and "couldn't have blemishes, wrinkles or a lot of hair."

I'm guessing there will be lots of close ups of the controller being handled and played with.

[Stogi]

Or it's a bunch of people sipping coffee.