Topic: Super Smash Bros. Brawl

[Ceric]

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Fallen Angel Award (or Lucifer Award) Goes to:
Rare

I give that to Square personally even though they where never first party.

[ZeldaWarlord]

Spak i totally disagree with your list.   Spend one week on a college campus and you will know who the true saints of gaming are.  I know so many people who play mario kart hard core and people who could care less that metroid ever existed.   i personally think that when metroid went 3D everything went downhill.   I think mario kart def owns metroid in the list of Saints.

[Spak-Spang]

Zelda:  Perhaps I was too quick to put Metroid and Mario Kart in their places.

After all Mario Kart is the shining example of perfect Kart gaming in this world...but is Mario Kart too niche?  Probably not I dunno.

Metroid I believe deserves to be on there, because it is one of those games that has a good following, and is one of Nintendo's few mature-ish franchises.  And its quality in all of its forms have been consistently of higher quality than similar games.  

 

[ZeldaWarlord]

I agree that every time metroid is made it is a complete game.  But isn't that what we should EXPECT from the makers of any video game.  I'm not saying that i don't like metroid, but in my opinion its become nothing wonderful fast.  I'm hoping that this newest installment will make me eat some massive crow, but sadly enough i doubt i will be wrong.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand, SSBB

So I have taken my Wii around my college campus to three diferent locations for "Wii Partys" at this point, and i think i did a pretty good job of promoting Nintendo's newest system.   And now that I have the SSBB trailers on my Ipod i think it will make it much easier when people say... are there gonna be any good looking games for Wii?   What are your guys opinion on the new graphics... same, better, incredible?

[Nephilim]

I dont think "Super Mario RPG" is treated godly by fanboys
Its more of a collectors item, much like "paper mario" for n64

[Spak-Spang]

I dunno.  Mention Nintendo and RPGs and you will get true Nintendo fanboys to comment about how Super Mario RPG is one of Squares best efforts.  Or comments, why can't paper Mario, or Mario and Luigi be more like Mario RPG...that was perfect.  It is a game that is blasphemy to defame in any way.  

Every Metroid game (save the first game on NES) I have throughly loved, and the experience is one that has more than satisfied me as a game.  Metroid series more than a complete game.  It is a well crafted game series.  You can't say that about very many franchises.

Now, I will admit the Retro games have been a little too hard on the final bosses...as I have been able to beat the games up until the end...and the games are not captivating enough to repeated die in an annoying battle to beat.


As for Smash Brothers.  I loved the first game as a huge party game with my friends.  The second game I loved as a single player experience, as my friends didn't enjoy the sequel as much.  I am hoping Brawl brings both together...and is packaged with a classical controller.  :^)

I have high hopes for the game, and I want it to be perfect.  I don't want the game until December 2007 and I want it polished and perfected...with working 4 player online play, and a deep single player adventure mode.  Finally, I want Bomber Man and Mega Man.  

[Adrock]

I totally agree with Spak-Spang on Super Mario RPG. It was a good game, but personally, I thought Superstar Saga was better. Mallow and Geno have this ridiculous cult following. They weren't even that cool.......

Brawl needs a Belmont. Simon would be most likely, though Trevor and Richter were cooler. Ryu from Street Fighter would be awesome too even though translating his moves into the Smash control scheme would be weird (pressing B for a Hadoken instead of D, DF, F+Punch)

[TEM]

Traditional fighting game characters in a SSB game? I think this is a major no-no. Part of SSB's mystique is that it contains characters from games that span potentionally every game genre EXCEPT fighting. Anything to the contrary would lead me to believe that the SSB series is going to slowly morph into a normal fighting game, which is definitely a no-no.  

[Smash_Brother]

I have to agree.

SSB was intended as a spoof of games like Street Fighter which forced players to memorize ridiculous combos in order to have any chance of succeeding. If I wanted to spend my time memorizing sh*t, I would have been studying for tests instead of playing video games as a kid. I play games to have fun, not memorize more useless information.

But enough about Street Fighter. If we're going to see a Capcom character, it'll be Megaman, no question. Though, I admit Simon Belmont would then complete the trio from Captain N, with Icarus, Megaman and Belmont together at last...

[Luigi Dude]

Well Megaman is the most deserving of all third party characters, since he's had the longest history with Nintendo with around 90% of all his games appearing on Nintendo systems.  And with the amount of Megaman games out there, that's ALOT.

But the thing that hurts him is these days, the classic Megaman series is pretty niche with only a small fanbase left over.  The only Megaman series that's popular these days is the EXE series, which I'm not a big fan of.  But chances are we wont be seeing any Megaman related character at all.

All signs so far are pointing to a Square-Enix character appearing in the game.  With the five Final Fantasy characters appear in Mario Hoops and the Mario + Dragon Quest party game, plus all the DS exclusives being annouced, Nintendo and Square-Enix have a very close relationship right now.  And with them already putting each others characters in there games it seems all but certion that a Square-Enix character will be in the next Smash Bros.

Mark my words, the third party line-up will be Snake, Sonic and Square-Enix character.  All that's left for us to debate now is which Square-Enix character will be in, remembering that the character has to have appeared on a Nintendo system.  

(Which gets rid of characters like Cloud and Tidus, THANK GOD)

[TMW]

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Originally posted by: Luigi DudeMark my words, the third party line-up will be Snake, Sonic and Square-Enix character.  All that's left for us to debate now is which Square-Enix character will be in, remembering that the character has to have appeared on a Nintendo system.

Garland.  His stage has earthquakes which, get this, knocks you down.

[Crimm]

I want to see my Miis instead of Polygon/Wireframe teams.

[LunaticFringe]

what's with everyone's megaman fixation?

Nintendo should only allow 3rd PT characters from companies that stuck through them thick and thin.  Companies like SE and plenty of others should never be considered.  I would hope Nintendo would have more pride than that.  As for Snake, Konami gave GCN a bone with snake eater.  Nintendo is probably repaying them in some way with this.

In terms of characters:
I don't have many ideas that haven't already been thrown out there.

Maybe the Frog Boss from Super Mario II as a Bowser Clome.

Paratrooper/Koopa Troopa

Maybe Wolf Link with that Goblin on top of him (TP is still unopened lol -- Wii Spots pwns too much for drinking games)

Like I said I don't have many. I'm trying to think back to my NES days and I can't get the horrible mental images of Star Voyager out of my mind.


Anyways, I hope they make SSB:B A LOT closer to the original.  I am sure that I am in the extreme minority here, but I was very disappointed in Melee.  Everything they did was great, but the gameplay seemed off.  It was too fast and smashy (I know that sounds stupid).  The original seemed way more strategic like if you were playing chess.  Melee just seemed to require less skill because someone could always catch you with a c-stick smash. which.... takes no skill.


Anyways if their is online and Luigi has his own moves and isnt just a mario clone, my pants will be tight.

[Smoke39]

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Originally posted by: LunaticFringe
what's with everyone's megaman fixation?

Megaman's cool?

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Originally posted by: LunaticFringe
Nintendo should only allow 3rd PT characters from companies that stuck through them thick and thin.  Companies like SE and plenty of others should never be considered.  I would hope Nintendo would have more pride than that.  As for Snake, Konami gave GCN a bone with snake eater.  Nintendo is probably repaying them in some way with this.

You mean Twin Snakes, a remake of an old game?  So Konami gets Snake in Brawl for throwing Nintendo a bone, but Capcom shouldn't get Megaman in Brawl even though the majority of Megaman games have been released on Nintendo platforms?

[TEM]

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Originally posted by: LunaticFringe
The original seemed way more strategic like if you were playing chess.  Melee just seemed to require less skill because someone could always catch you with a c-stick smash. which.... takes no skill.

Sounds like someone isn't very good at dodging or rolling.

[Dirk Temporo]

And has never seen videos of Ken.

[Amodaus1]

Unless you know how to wave-dash, shuffle, and do character specific moves, like shine spike, or shine combo, then you sir, have no right to criticize melee. It is superior to the original in every facet, and added so much more depth it wasn't even comparable.

Oh and that chess match in the original smash brothers usually ended like this. Shield's up, press A, grab and throw = dead at 80%. At least in melee they corrected throws being always leathal at 80%

And to who ever said SSBM was a spoof of street fighter where who had to memorize ridiculous combos. I hope you meant mortal combat, which is the only fighting game i know with preset combo that must be memorized, to where street fighter is non-linear in it's combo system, much like smash brothers is non-linear in its juggling system.

And despite what everyone here think, smash brothers is still a fighting game at its core, the dynamics are proved at competative play. Saying something like "adding fighting game characters to the game would be silly" is silly, because they would fit into the game perfectly.

[Adrock]

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(Which gets rid of characters like Cloud and Tidus, THANK GOD)

Chain of Memories.........

If it's any Square-Enix character, it'll be Cloud. He's basically their mascot. I'd take Cloud over FFXII's Vaan any day....

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Anyways if their is online and Luigi has his own moves and isnt just a mario clone, my pants will be tight.

Luigi in Melee is leagues better than Mario. I know what you're saying though. I still have my fingers crossed for Vacuum Luigi.

[ryancoke]

What about an underused superhero like batman? Most of the superhero games lately have been for Marvel comics characters (Xmen, Spiderman, etc.)

[Darkheart]

You guys are now at the point where you are just naming random people to throw in the game, in light of this I suggest these two characters:


Bill Cosby from the Jello Pudding Nes game

Big Bird from all the learning Nes games. . .

Seriously though guys, none of this is gonna happen but as far as the Square Enix character goes, Im guessing it will be a generic job one, aka warrior, black mage yada yada.  It would be fun to see Sora from Kingdom Hearts in there, he already has a move set that would fit in with the game quite nicely.  If they did added him in then it would be known that Kingdom Hearts was coming to Wii.

[Spak-Spang]

I have said this argument simply as this:

Smash Brothers Melee is the more strategic with advanced players, and in one on one battles.  The depth of Melee, and all the options is really equal to any other fighting game, despite its simplier play mechanics.

However,

Smash Brothers was easier to jump into, explore and enjoy.  The world of the original was simplier, and had gameplay that had advanced techniques, but mostly was simple fighting game that allowed beginners and advanced players to be on a more equal footing.  This meant a better party game, as everyone could enjoy the game and win.

Licensed characters from other things besides games would be a horrible idea.  First it would be difficult to get the license.  Second, it would cost money.

Mega Man is still popular and could still be done.  Just do a few different skins or models of the character.  1) Classic, 1) X, and 1)EXE.  Mega Man is still a hugely popular franchise and I think you are underestimating classic Mega Man's popularity.  When Capcom put Mega Man in their fighting games they used the classic model.  And IF a true sequel to the classic Mega Man game was made, I think it would sell INCREDIBLY well.

Bomberman is also the second most successful 3rd party character on a Nintendo system.  7-8 games on a Nintendo system...and Hudson has an awesome relationship with Nintendo.  

[Nick DiMola]

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Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
I have said this argument simply as this:

Smash Brothers Melee is the more strategic with advanced players, and in one on one battles.  The depth of Melee, and all the options is really equal to any other fighting game, despite its simplier play mechanics.

However,

Smash Brothers was easier to jump into, explore and enjoy.  The world of the original was simplier, and had gameplay that had advanced techniques, but mostly was simple fighting game that allowed beginners and advanced players to be on a more equal footing.  This meant a better party game, as everyone could enjoy the game and win.

I agree with this 110%. I like the original as a party game with people who don't exploit the throw mechanic, but for me Melee is much better for the strategy it brings to the table. A move back to the original would seem awkward. I'm not really sure how they are going to handle this (regarding speed essentially and who they will cater to), either way someone will be pissed.

To relate this to another discussion on the boards about "it" games like GTA and Halo. If they make this like Melee, I highly doubt it will be the "it" game. It needs to be slowed down a little and there needs to be some handicapping measures so the advanced can play with the beginners in order for this game to attain the status of an "it" game.

[Spak-Spang]

Mr. Jack:

A move back towards the original would be awkward, but I would argue also necessary.  I think a game like Smash Brothers, needs to as simple as possible to play, with hidden depth and layer to the combat.  Melee had depth in advanced techniques, very skilled targeted smash hits, and overall a complex block/attack/dodge mechanics.

I think moving forward with Brawl, you need to look towards means of keeping the depth, yet making it simpler...and better balanced for beginners and advanced players.  (And C-Stick Smashes is not the answer)

One of the most important elements would be to correct speed by bringing it down some, and balancing slower characters with moves that can be used to exploit speed players.  

I will not assume to think I have the expertise or the answers to create Brawl with the depth of Melee, and the balance and simplicity to become a perfect party game for all skill level players.

[Luigi Dude]

Considering Melee outsold the original by a good margin, they wont be going backwards anytime soon.  Plus I dont see the how the orginal was better for people of all skill level, I beat my friends worse in the original then Melee.  I found Melee made the game alot better for people of all skill levels thanks to a much better defense system.  In the original if I was coming at them there was no escape, but in Melee they could actually dodge to find ways to get away from me, which sometimes allowed them to even set up counters.

I guess it depends on what everyones situation is like but for me, I saw Melee because of it's more advanced engine allowing people who sucked at the original, to become much better and allowed them to actually keep up with me and the other advanced players in the group.

[Mikintosh]

I agree, I go back to the original when I want a more old-school (like 99's old-school) feeling to the game (the same reason I sometimes play Street Fighter II instead of the Alpha or Marvel vs. Capcom games). But Melee simply has a more refined feel to its' controls, and I think that's part of the reason it's been such a hit on the tournament scene.

As for blocks and defense being complicated, I didn't get a hang of the stuff until I'd played the game for over a year, and I was still beating people without using the C-stick. So it's not really a huge impediment.