Author Topic: IGN Promises Rev Specs: Evening 3/29/06  (Read 95025 times)

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Offline Djunknown

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RE:IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2006, 04:44:54 PM »
Sounds like its as powerful as an Xbox on paper. Its expected, so no outrage or shock here. But the RAM though...

On the bright side, games ought to be sold at current gen prices. There's no good excuse to slap a 60 dollar tag, except to say "We're doing it for other systems", which is BS.
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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2006, 04:50:00 PM »
"I agree 100% and add a great big 'so what?' to the equation.

EA and Ubi by and large make garbage, and virtually nobody buys a Nintendo system to play their sloppy ports of sloppy games."

I personally don't care but it makes the console look bad.  If the same game is available on all consoles and the Rev version is very obviously the worst version it makes it look like it's because it doesn't have the ability to pull it off.  All those people who think that the Cube had the weakest hardware weren't looking at Resident Evil 4.  They were looking at Madden and Splinter Cell.  Ubisoft and EA will expose the difference between the console hardware.  Nintendo can not publicly release the specs and make their own games look great and have this great gameplay that makes it so you don't notice anything's wrong but all that won't hide the hardware's weaknesses if Madden 07 has a crappy framerate or weaker graphics.

Offline Arbok

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RE:IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2006, 04:54:21 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I personally don't care but it makes the console look bad.  If the same game is available on all consoles and the Rev version is very obviously the worst version it makes it look like it's because it doesn't have the ability to pull it off.  All those people who think that the Cube had the weakest hardware weren't looking at Resident Evil 4.  They were looking at Madden and Splinter Cell.  Ubisoft and EA will expose the difference between the console hardware.  Nintendo can not publicly release the specs and make their own games look great and have this great gameplay that makes it so you don't notice anything's wrong but all that won't hide the hardware's weaknesses if Madden 07 has a crappy framerate or weaker graphics.


Exactly, Nintendo should be trying to recapture the casual audience who eats up the Madden games each year, but instead this move seems to give them more of a reason to look toward the 360 and the PS3 to get their shovelware. Of course the controller could make the difference, but that would assume that EA or Ubisoft would be willing to alter a port enough so that it doesn't come off as more than a gimick, and with them I kind of doubt that will happen.
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Offline majortom1981

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RE: IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2006, 04:56:52 PM »
The revolutions cpu is way faster then the original xbox's

A powerpc 733 is the equivalent to a pentium 4 1.5 ghz. The rev cpu is about 833 power pc.

The xbox was a 733 p3 ( i think a celeron wich makes it worse)

http://www.macworld.com/2001/07/bc/buzzppcvpentium/

link to my proof.

IF you call a system that is 2 times as powerfull as the original xbox an xbox then go ahead.

Offline Caliban

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RE: IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2006, 05:01:04 PM »
You know what's funny about these spec comparisons? I've got an AMD Athlon 64 3200+, it says on the box something that intrigued me and that was the 2.00GHz it mentions, however I recently read that my CPU can perform just as well or better than an Intel Pentium IV 3.0GHZ. Really? Wow, no wonder Elder Scrolls 4 runs so well.

Something also funny is how in the NGC/PS2/Xbox generation it was supposed that the PS2's raw power was superior to the NGC, really? I never saw those overpowering raw specs surpass the NGC.

Oh and btw, the NGC supported 480p and not more, the Xbox supported 720p? So the REV with these specs supports only 480p, well the graphics certainly will look just as good on a SD tv just as the X360 or Ps3 games will, I think.

In the end, what is important? The price. I hope it will be $249.99CAD. But then again I bet futureshop/bestbuy.ca will rip us off, so there's amazon.ca or some other local store that you know they do good prices like perhaps a new and used store or EBgames or Walmart.

Offline jasonditz

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RE:IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #30 on: March 29, 2006, 05:07:06 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: majortom1981
The revolutions cpu is way faster then the original xbox's

A powerpc 733 is the equivalent to a pentium 4 1.5 ghz. The rev cpu is about 833 power pc.

The xbox was a 733 p3 ( i think a celeron wich makes it worse)

http://www.macworld.com/2001/07/bc/buzzppcvpentium/

link to my proof.

IF you call a system that is 2 times as powerfull as the original xbox an xbox then go ahead.


Well, in all fairness a G4's got some extra capabilities that it's not clear if the Rev's CPU will have or not. Even without it, the PPC is the superior CPU, no question.

But again, lets not get bogged down on CPU specs, because frankly by itself it means almost nothing to performance.

Offline RiskyChris

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RE: IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #31 on: March 29, 2006, 05:22:24 PM »
My AMD 4200+ dual core processor clocks in at 2.2 GHz, but it's priced reasonably near Pentium 4 Ghz processors.  Why?

Because you can't just look at clock speed and say "oh god that's an xbox."

Offline Kairon

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RE:IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #32 on: March 29, 2006, 05:25:07 PM »
I'm intrigued. Nintendo isn't competing for straight-up ports anymore and is focusing purely on what it can do that no other system can. This is always an improvement over the GC's situation, which was at or near the top of its game hardware-wise but just never really had any compelling reason to own it for most people.

And I'm still loving the idea that I may be able to afford all the controllers I'll need and more than one launch game at launch. That DEFINITELY tickles me.

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Offline Kairon

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RE: IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #33 on: March 29, 2006, 05:26:29 PM »
Yeah, I expect that these babies will be a step or two beyond what an XBox can do a a step or two behind the X360.

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Offline capamerica

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RE: IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #34 on: March 29, 2006, 05:45:26 PM »
Console specs are over rated, Just because it has all this "power" under the hood doesn't mean it will have the best looking games, In this point in time with Technology Its the developers that are the ones who make the games look nice not the hardware.

I remember Nintendo saying that when you compare the Revolution to the Xbox360 on a Standard non-HDTV you won't see a difference. I think the amount of power in the Rev will do just that. You remember that both the Xbox360 and the PS3 need the extra power to do HD games, since Nintendo is not doing HD they don't need as much power. The 360 and PS3 need more video ram cause they are loading in much higher res textures while Nintendo on the other hand can get away with less video ram cause they don't need high res textures.
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Offline jasonditz

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RE:IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #35 on: March 29, 2006, 05:45:32 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Kairon
Yeah, I expect that these babies will be a step or two beyond what an XBox can do a a step or two behind the X360.

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From what I've seen of the 360 so far I'm not sure there's more than a step between the two anyhow.  

Offline Mario

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RE:IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #36 on: March 29, 2006, 05:52:34 PM »
specs specs specs words words words
Quote

Originally posted by: jasonditz
Quote

Originally posted by: Ian Sane
EA and Ubisoft aren't going to go to any serious effort to get their PS3 focused games working well on the Rev.  They're just not and this isn't going to help.


I agree 100% and add a great big "so what?" to the equation.

EA and Ubi by and large make garbage, and virtually nobody buys a Nintendo system to play their sloppy ports of sloppy games.

I have some reservations about the seemingly low specs, but what it does to EA or Ubi's games frankly doesn't even enter into the equation for me.

I'm going to hold off judgement until I see some actual game footage...


Remember this is Ian... while non-games he wont play aren't necceassary, ports he wont play are crucial.

Offline Kairon

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RE:IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #37 on: March 29, 2006, 05:53:05 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: jasonditz
Quote

Originally posted by: Kairon
Yeah, I expect that these babies will be a step or two beyond what an XBox can do a a step or two behind the X360.


From what I've seen of the 360 so far I'm not sure there's more than a step between the two anyhow.


QFT

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Offline eljefe

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RE:IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #38 on: March 29, 2006, 05:56:12 PM »
"And with regards to all the nintendo fanboys who claim that you don't need a powerful system to innovate in the game market.... How does having a more poweful system HURT innovation? who says that sony and microsoft won't be able to innovate just as much if not more then nintendo in this coming generation of consoles." - Some dude on Joystiq

I've wondered this myself...I think in all honesty Nintendo WANTS to limit developers. Including themselves.

This sounds bad to some former (or soon-to-be-former)Nintendo fans, but in a nutshell, Nintendo is forcing themselves and other developers to think INSIDE a box.

At a glance that may seem restrictive, especially when the other console makers don't seem to have those restrictions. The thing is, we as consumers sometimes forget that the console hardware is an artistic medium.

Restrictions = challenge. Every work of art is the result of the struggle between the artists' MIND and his MEDIUM(S), and, of course, TIME. The restrictions INHERENT in those three elements, or caused by circumstance, directly determine the characteristics of the outcome. Art exists because of restrictions.

Videogames are more than "traditional" (read: static) art. They are dynamic, because they are INTERACTIVE. So, like "traditional" games and sports, which are interactivities, they still rely on restrictions:

MEDIUM - Rules in sports or board games act as one type of restriction (e.g. playing surface, field size/ shape, part(s) of the body eligle for use in the game, et cetera)

MIND - Mental ability and strategy play a part in restricting the participants, it also directly affects the other two factors (e.g. the number of players allowed, turn-based play, coaches experience, et cetera)

TIME - In most games, time is also a restricting factor, (e.g. shot clock, hourglass timers in board games, even the length of rests like halftime or timeouts)

I recognize that this is a relatively young artform but the arguments are really unnecessary. Think: how many people seriously debate whether chess is better than checkers? Or whether cricket is better than baseball? (People who do engage in discussions of that nature end up sounding rather silly.)

Each is different, not better or worse, than the other: each has a unique set of rules and restrictions.

The same is true with fine art. The artist is restricted, by circumstance or choice, to use a certain types of paint or certain colors (or for a sculptor, what material: marble, metal, wood…). There is also the decision to use different types of brushes and chisels, or even our hands to mold clay. There are countless types of brushstrokes and chiseling techniques to choose from.

Musically, the composer or performer has a similarly wide array of restrictive choices (number/type of instruments, genre, duration of the piece…)

So, whether it's a game or a work of art, the restrictions do not add to the end product...they ARE the product.

All three videogame consoles are playing by different rules. For the benefit of our visual learners, ALL of the game system manufacturers are forcing developers to think inside a "box". Each "box" is just shaped differently. The four boundary lines are formed by the restrictions ( i.e. the systems features and specs) that make the shape of a box/ rectangle/ trapezoid, et cetera.

Different developers and consumers are attracted to different shaped boxes. Also, different types of games fit into to the different shapes and sizes. An easy example is to compare handheld and console games. The shape of each is DIFFERENT, but is perceived as BETTER or WORSE by the developer or consumer. People prove which shape they like by either developing for that shape or buying games that fit that shape.

So, Nintendo's decision to leave out HD or high spec hardware is purposeful. It is one more identifying restriction that is defining their consoles' "shape". The Gamecube's shape was confused by many developer's and consumer as "like an XBOX or PS2, but less powerful / with no online plans / no DVD funtionality" (or "a similar 'shape' but smaller, and therefore annoyingly restrictive").

Everything about the Revolution is meant to be different: the controller, the lesser emphasis on graphics, the size, the price, (even down to the PR doublespeak, "We aren't competing with MS and SONY"). The DS is not proof that Blue Ocean Strategy "works", it has proved that a uniquely different "shape" garauntees "different shaped games" .

Whether those games are worth playing is a matter of personal taste. That is why some people, like Ian, don't particularly like the "new shaped games" that are receiving praise from game critics.

That is also why, if Nintendo properly markets the "shape" of the Revolution, some developers will avoid it like the plague. New-shaped-games ARE possible on a regular-shaped-systems, HD graphics and advanced AI are parameters that will lead to new "shapes". However, Nintendo is betting on the fact that "new shaped games"   will be much more likely to occur with the parameters they are setting for their console.

 
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Offline MysticGohan

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RE: IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #39 on: March 29, 2006, 06:04:30 PM »
so... what are you trying to say?

You like Nintendo? or are you going Awol and joining the dark side :p
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Offline Artimus

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RE: IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #40 on: March 29, 2006, 06:04:55 PM »
One day Ian will realize his arguments are long over with and Nintendo is long past whatever he is talking about.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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RE: IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #41 on: March 29, 2006, 06:13:53 PM »
"oh god that's an atari jaguar."
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Offline Spak-Spang

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RE:IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #42 on: March 29, 2006, 06:20:39 PM »
I really think that IGN article was irresponsibily written, and garbage.

Here is why.  The comparisons between Xbox 360 and the new Revolution supposed SPECS are not put in context.  

They don't explain what anything means, or how numbers don't tell everything.  They purposely went out to make Revolution's numbers look poorly, without commenting on benefits of the stats.

It would have been better to have reported the story without any comparisons.  Let the bloggers do that.  Then as a more respectable journalist dig into the numbers, and find out what developers think about the lower numbers and see if they compare it to just an Xbox.  

Breaking this into two stories would have been better in my opinion.


Offline nemo_83

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RE:IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #43 on: March 29, 2006, 06:23:38 PM »
I'm sorry if I sound negative, but it seems Nintendo despite all their efforts to fix what was wrong with GCN (no online, FisherPrice lunchbox aesthetics, and a controller that was only different from the competition's in that it was an eye sore and had fewer buttons) are screwing up what worked best about the hardware; it competed graphically with the Xbox.  And though GCN's CPU was of lower mhz compared to Xbox's, the GCN CPU was able to make a pass and a half for every single one the Pentium could.  This time though things are more level in the way of ATI and IBM making the chips in both consoles.  Looking at the specs of 360 and Revolution this time will actually give a fair comparison, in theory.

It just bugs the hell out of me that Nintendo is not only not supporting HD, they have admited its affects on gameplay by saying they will support it with a future system (reminds me of their arrogance about online with GCN), they are a year late, there has been no confirmation of even an optional first party hard drive, and they still do not match the 360 in specs and raw graphical effects.  The source claims it is "unlikely the GPU will feature any added shaders."

In my eye, lighting effects as opposed to pixel ratios are the most prolific change from the previous generation of hardware, and Nintendo is penching pennies and brushing both off like they do hoping it will all just go away.  That last secret better be awesome; it better not be some g!mmick like: it can broadcast the audio and video signals to TVs wirelessly or it comes with a small 480p screen.

The 360 has around five times the RAM of Revolution, and honestly the only game on 360 that has my attention because of graphics is Gears of War; judging from how I feel about 360's graphics, I'm not expecting to be wowed by Nintendo's "next gen" visuals.  It just speaks to me that once again three years after the system comes out I am going to be asking myself when is the next time Nintendo is going to release a game, a game I am interested in, because I'm not buying a third party half raw feature-raped port.


Now Nintendo I predict is moving Zelda to Revolution for launch, it must have been doing it all along; there isn’t much difference between the hardware specs anyways so it can’t be that much work.
 
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RE:IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #44 on: March 29, 2006, 06:32:04 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
I really think that IGN article was irresponsibily written, and garbage.

Here is why.  The comparisons between Xbox 360 and the new Revolution supposed SPECS are not put in context.  

They don't explain what anything means, or how numbers don't tell everything.  They purposely went out to make Revolution's numbers look poorly, without commenting on benefits of the stats.

It would have been better to have reported the story without any comparisons.  Let the bloggers do that.  Then as a more respectable journalist dig into the numbers, and find out what developers think about the lower numbers and see if they compare it to just an Xbox.  

Breaking this into two stories would have been better in my opinion.


I agree with you about the article not putting the specs in context. The GC according to Matt himself was about about 90% as powerful as the X-box. Plus it doesn't take into account the different chip architectures. Thats said I find the Rev's specs disappoiting. I didn't expect it to approach the 360 or PS3 but I figured the Rev's CPU would be around 1.5 Ghz, GPU 400mhz, and the RAM would be around 256MB. I can tell you what Ubisoft and EA are going to do right now. They are just going to port their GC game engines to Rev, slap some half ass control scheme for the new controller, and leave the old control scheme for the GC games in the there for use with the Revs controller shell.
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Offline Mario

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RE: IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #45 on: March 29, 2006, 06:35:35 PM »
Rev one sixth as powerful as Xbox 360? Must mean it's one fifth the power of the Xbox... less powerful than GC and PS2 as well... i'd imagine it's slightly above SNES level, around GBA level. This is the end!

Quote

Now Nintendo I predict is moving Zelda to Revolution for launch, it must have been doing it all along; there isn’t much difference between the hardware specs anyways so it can’t be that much work.

No, you don't know what you're talking about. TP wont get a graphical upgrade on Rev, that would REALLY make the GC version useless.

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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #46 on: March 29, 2006, 06:51:00 PM »
eljefe talked about Nintendo forcing a restriction which works better for art.  I'll agree with one thing.  When Nintendo has on a cartridge based N64 and had a buttload of self-imposed restrictions put on them they blew me away far more often then they did on the Cube.  On the Cube they had no need for midi sounds yet they still used them.  They had the option for FMV and when they used it in Super Mario Sunshine it looked horrible and looked exactly like the in game graphics which is kind of, well, stupid.  They made a very bland boring Mario model that looked like something out of a Dreamcast launch title and used it in every Mario game since Super Mario Sunshine.  They had a lot of freedom and they rarely used it so their games seemed like they were missing something.  On the N64 it was like every game was pushing the hardware to it's limits.  With the Cube, it rarely felt like that.

So in a way it might be better for Nintendo to have less freedom so that they push the hardware more often.  That doesn't help for third parties.  Restriction can be good for art but there's a business side.  Third parties can potentially make more money on the other two consoles which provide them with more freedom.  A third party will only accept major limitations if they feel they have to to make money.

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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RE:IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #47 on: March 29, 2006, 07:14:57 PM »
APRIL FOOLZ!!!!!!

I can't believe you all fell for it. hahahah Matt got you all, on an early april fools joke!!! haha its a joke........ right?

Offline BigJim

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RE: IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #48 on: March 29, 2006, 07:17:05 PM »
The PPC Altivec instructions are basically a Motorola invention. It wasn't until IBM's PPC 970 (G5) that IBM adopted a compatible version of it, and it turned out to be slower than the original. Ick.

So I'm betting against Altivec, but it's true that we have no idea if anything was added since the GameCube hardware. In 5 years they could have adopted more than just a 67% clock boost. But we just don't know.

Everybody comparing the CPUs, you're right the AMD chips are clocked lower but perform just as good as the Pentium 4s. It may also interest you to know that Intel has stepped back and adopted AMD's approach for their dual-core systems. They now clock much lower (just like AMDs) and perform competitively with AMD at similar GHz speeds. So apparently AMD was on to something.

But anyway... The Xbox 1 used a 733MHz Pentium 3. A P3. It wasn't much to write home about even at the time Xbox launched. This comparison doesn't totally apply anymore because all 3 systems are now using PPC derivatives. It's not completely off-kilter to at least compare the new consoles. But again, Revolution has less performance to push by its nature. It's not an HD system. So many people pissed on those of us that wanted HD, well now you're getting almost all that you need for your standard def TV at an affordable price. So congratulations. What, not satisfied? Welcome to our thoughts 9 months ago. It's not too late. You can join our club. We won't be as dismissive of you as you were of us.

Ian touches on an interesting point... If every game looked at least as good as Zelda TP or Resident Evil, there wouldn't be much to worry about. But their low-res cartoon artistic style just doesn't mesh well with modern hardware. WILL they finally mature their product and not recycle old textures and models?

We REALLY should wait for E3. Well, we have no choice. There's still more than specs here.

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Offline ruby_onix

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RE:IGN Leaks Some Rev Specs Again! 3/29/06
« Reply #49 on: March 29, 2006, 07:43:00 PM »
http://www.planetgamecube.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=15409
Quote

Originally posted by: Iwata
Hay guys. We blew our entire hardware budget on the controller. LOLZ. Sorry. GameCube 1.5 FTW.
 
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