Topic: Revolution Specs to Never be Revealed?

[Mario]

Yes, they are ignorant, show them the light kirby_killer!

[Jonnyboy117]

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Originally posted by: MJRx9000
So does this mean every dev from now on will sign an NDA?

They do that anyway, it's standard practice.  The question is what information is protected under the NDA and what is not.

[ShyGuy]

Rev is not going to have to be very powerful to match the visuals of the first gen 360 games.

[Ian Sane]

"information such as clock speed and polygon count is ultimately 'irrelevant' to the consumer"

Translation: we lowballed our hardware BIG TIME and we want to keep that potentially damaging info from the public as long as possible.

It makes sense.  If you have such a blatant weakness why show it if you don't have to, right?  Of course they shouldn't have such a stupid weakness but whatever.

I don't care about specs and the general public doesn't even know about them.  BUT they're still important.  The general public doesn't know the Cube specs.  F*ck, I don't even know them and I looked them up when they were revealed.  However the general public does think the Cube is underpowered and weaker than even the PS2.  This is false but it's a common misconception.  How did this idea get into people's heads?  Negative word of mouth.  Nintendo released realistic figures for the Cube which, although a very honest thing to do, made their console look significantly inferior on paper.  So word of mouth spread.  Not everyone is looking up gaming on the internet but they know someone who knows someone who knows someone who does and stuff gets spread around as a result.  Internet geeks saw the Cube specs were by far the "weakest" and they told their friends the Cube was underpowered and they told their friends and it got spread around as if it's common knowledge even though it's inaccurate.

So now Nintendo feels the Rev specs are "irrelevent".  Well you only hide stuff when you don't want people to know, right?  So obviously Nintendo is hiding weak ass hardware.  That plus the "two or three times the Cube" comment just seals the deal.  Even if it's false there's enough "evidence" for it to be "true".  After all there's no denial from Nintendo on this issue.

So it makes no difference if Nintendo hides the specs or not.  The Rev is unofficially underpowered and everyone is going to know that by the time the thing's in stores and that's going to make a console that already has to fight for attention that much harder to sell.  I'm not saying Nintendo should reveal the specs if they are lower.  But just the fact that they have to hide them suggests that maybe they screwed up.

I'm very interested in what the price is now.  The ONLY reason to skimp on the hardware, at least from the consumer's perspective, is to have a lower price.  So the Rev better be significantly cheaper than the competition.  And I don't mean cheaper than the X360 launch price.  It has to be cheaper than what the X360 costs when the Rev launches.  

[Hostile Creation]

Assumption is the mother of all whats, again?

Edit: I know that Nintendo's hardware is not as capable as the other two next-gen consoles, but your exaggeration of the issue is ridiculous.  The 2 to 3 times more powerful (which I assume, based on who said, means 2 to 3 times as nice looking) is a lot closer to home than 20 to 30 times more powerful, which was totally misleading.  Nintendo is being modest, and they may have to be, but I suspect they're being more modest than they need to be.

[KDR_11k]

The point is it really doesn't...Their true purpose is to allow companies and fanboys to wave their probes around like morons...

They're telling prospective buyers how powerful the machine will be when you install Linux on it.

Translation: we lowballed our hardware BIG TIME and we want to keep that potentially damaging info from the public as long as possible.

Not necessarily, Nintendo is the only company I'd actually believe would hide the specs even if they're good. They're not playing hardball and they would prefer the general public to be smarter. Specs ARE misleading, you cannot make a conclusion from them without a LOT of technical expertise and even then you'll probably only find out which chips they are related to.
Perhaps they're worried that idiots will claim more processing units == better if Nintendo puts only one or two general purpose cores into their system. What if IBM gave them a Cell with fewer SPEs so there's someone who will buy all those Cells with manufacturing errors, kinda like the Intel Celeron?

Plus there's no point in lowballing that much because the chips don't get cheaper beyond a point. Since they're launching much later they should be able to get specs comparable to the X360 for a minimal price.

[Artimus]

Anyone else just tired of Ian? I used to find him valid, then humorous, then annoying, but now it's just like "Why are you wasting my pixels?"

[couchmonkey]

That's what the scroll button is for.  I often agree with Ian, but sometimes when I read the first two sentences and I know I'm gonna hate it, I just scroll, scroll away.  I used to do the same thing with any post by Stevey, but he's become more readable for me lately.

Umm...yeah, power.  I don't really care about it myself.  If Nintendo's strategy works out, power won't matter anyway.  It's all about the new controller.  I obviously can't say until I play some games with it, but the more I think about the Revolution controller the more I'm convinced that Microsoft and Sony are living in the stone age pads that are essentially no different from the dual shock.

[Ian Sane]

"Not necessarily, Nintendo is the only company I'd actually believe would hide the specs even if they're good."

Well realistically, yes, I would agree that only Nintendo would do that.  But what did being honest about the Cube specs do for them?  All it did was create the misconception that the Cube was underpowered.  Specs shouldn't matter just like image shouldn't matter and marketing shouldn't matter.  But they do, even if they shouldn't.  So Nintendo can't just be all "well we've decided specs don't matter" and have everyone agree to it.  Nerds are still going to compare hardware, decide the Rev is underpowered because of hidden specs, and then spread the word that the Rev is the weakest hardware regardless of whether that's true or not.  So it make no sense to hide "good" specs because all it can do is benefit them and hiding, no matter what the specs really are, is going to hurt them.

[Epitaph]

This just tells me one of 3 possibilities.

1.Either the revolution has very pathetic looking specs but is engineered in a way that makes it just as powerfull as the other 2 consols. Just look at the gamecube in terms of specs no one would think it is capable of graphics better then ps2 let alone on par with xbox looking at the specs. The problem is if they are using a system they engineered  that uses unfamilliar technology people may hold it against them. If this is the casse it will be clearly visible when games are released.

2.Nintendo may also have very inferior specs which makes it really inferior and they are trying to make it less obvious by not releasing specs. If this is the casse they may be in trouble when they come out.

3.Nintendo feels that over the years specs have taken over too much publicity and by dooing this they are hoping more emphasis gets put on the games and interface instead of the power itself.  

[mantidor]

"Nintendo released realistic figures for the Cube which, although a very honest thing to do, made their console look significantly inferior on paper.  So word of mouth spread.  Not everyone is looking up gaming on the internet but they know someone who knows someone who knows someone who does and stuff gets spread around as a result.  Internet geeks saw the Cube specs were by far the "weakest" and they told their friends the Cube was underpowered and they told their friends and it got spread around as if it's common knowledge even though it's inaccurate."

see? releasing specs was more harmful than good, not releasing them wont make these internet geeks you talk about to say the Cube is underpowered just because, they need proof of some sort and they dont have it. You and everyone knows whats going to happen, hundreds of fake specs all over the internet, and in that mix even the real ones might be floating around, but it wont matter, the truth is that information will be just really fuzzy, even for casual people who dont read the internet and get their information from word of mouth.

No one will know for sure, but the games will look amazing and just the same as the ps3 and 360 for the average guy, and Nintendo will then be succesful with what they want, which is to people to dont care about specs.

[Avinash_Tyagi]

My guess is the systems specs look weak on paper...but is the architecture is more efficient than their competitors chips...kind of like how AMD chips are technically slower than Intel chips if you just look at the specs, but are more efficient per clock cycle and therefore actually runs faster on most applications.

[Kairon]

There are only two ways out of Ian's catch-22 quandary of "specs are important, deal with it."

1. Be Sony or Microsoft, release a console that costs 400 dollars at launch, get in a tech spec slugging match with a giant consumer electronics company and emperor of the universe Bill Gates, and buy into the "graphics is the best innovation of this generation" thinking like that Epic games dunce has.

2. Make fake specs.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[ruby_onix]

Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor

Quote
Originally posted by: ruby_onix
But by not releasing any specs, after admitting that they're going to be behind the competion, Nintendo's going to score an automatic "zero" with those unqualified couch jockeys.

Thats the thing, they have never admitted they are going to be behind, they always say "our graphics are going to be comparable to competitors", that "behind" you talk aout its just numbers, and even GC was "behind" in that area.

From IGN

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"If you are just going to compare the spec sheets and spec numbers, Revolution may not have an equal or higher number as the PlayStation 3 or Xbox 360. But the fact of the matter is that if people are going to connect our machine and their machine to an ordinary TV set at home and try to compare the differences, I really don't think that they can tell such a huge difference between the machines," Iwata told G4.

Oh and, just to point out, for the GameCube the specs Nintendo put out weren't entirely meaningless. They told us that they were using soon-to-be-inadequate 1.5 gig discs, and that it could do "Real-world polygon : 6 million to 12 million polygons/second (Peak) (Assuming actual game conditions with complex models, fully textured, fully lit, etc.)"

Nintendo CAN tell us things that make sense, especially in hindsight (assuming Nintendo knew what they were talking about when they said it).

Right now, all we have is the cynical view that the Rev is going to be able to do 12 to 36 million polys-per-second, and the view taken on faith that says that the Rev is going to somehow outperform at least the Xbox360 (which, perhaps unrealistically, says it can do 500 million polys-per-second).

[ShyGuy]

man, if the 360 can do 500,000,000 polys per second, why do Perfect Dark Zero models have half the polys that Re4 models have?

Somebodys stealing polygons!

[KnowsNothing]

1) On paper the Rev looks weak- yes, it's the most under-powered console.
2) The graphical difference between the games we see will be negligible.  This is possible.
3) None of this matters.

Well, there you go.  That makes everyone happy.  

Yes, Ian and Pale, the Rev is the weakest.  Happy?
Yes, most other people, the games will look similar.  Super.
Yes, cool dudes, none of this matters.  We have the most fun.  We win.

[Arrow]

Ian, what you're basically saying is that Nintendo is damned if they do, and damned if they don't. If they release the specs as they did with the Gamecube, people will assume the system is less powerful than the competitors, but by not releasing them, they will assume the same thing. So, since you seem to know better than anyone else what the best marketing moves are for Nintendo, how do you think Nintendo should go about this? They're releasing a console that is (presumably) technically inferior to its competition, but capable of visuals that are comparable regardless and gameplay that promises to be unique. What is the perfect way for Nintendo to advertise this fact in Ian-Land without shooting themselves in the foot?

[Ian Sane]

"not releasing them wont make these internet geeks you talk about to say the Cube is underpowered just because, they need proof of some sort and they dont have it."

The fact that Nintendo is hiding the specs is "proof".  Proof enough to declare it the weakest console anyway.  And being excluded outright from the hardware discussion isn't that great either.  Then the Rev isn't even a contender.  It's that "Xbox or PS2" thing all over again.

"Make fake specs."

Why the hell not?  Sony does it all the time and it hasn't hurt them.  We're the only ones who care if Nintendo is honest about things like that anyway and we'll know they're exagerating for publicity purposes.  The difference between the graphics probably won't be that noticable in real life.  So why not say you can push 50 billion gigaflips or whatever and let those who care about that sort of stuff think you're better than you are?  It's not really a lie if the games look and play great.

Sony said the PS2 would have TOY STORY graphics!  That has a huge lie and everyone caught them on it because the games looked nowhere near that level.  But most people don't know what specs even mean.  They just see a big number and think it's good.  So give them a big number and then deliver great graphics and they'll be none the wiser.  Nintendo themselves have said that the jump in graphics is shrinking.  So if no one can see the difference then they'll be fine.  But having this big regarding the specs makes it look like they're hiding something.  So why not kill the underpowered rumour and then the games really will speak for themselves.

[Bill Aurion]

The fact that Nintendo is hiding the specs is "proof". Proof enough to declare it the weakest console anyway.

What's funny is the exact same thing happened last gen when Ninty revealed the "weak" specs of the Gamecube...Then everyone had "proof" that it was weaker when everyone can see it's NOT...If you have proof of it being weaker through both showing and not showing specs, then WHAT THE HELL?  We'll be getting almost identical games visual-wise anyway so please everyone SHUT THE **** UP about specs...

[Kairon]

Obviously, Nintendo doesn't want to lie to us. Yet another reason I'm a Miyamoto fanboy.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[31 Flavas]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane

So Nintendo can't just be all "well we've decided specs don't matter" and have everyone agree to it.

But... Specs don't matter. If everyone wants to be shallow and superficial and make judgements about the Revolution, let them.

I have a dream though "where video game systems will not be judged by the color of their casing or number of polygons they can draw but by the content of their character and quality of their games." This dream started with Nintendo DS and really seems to be catching on.

[Djunknown]

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If the average gamer doesn't care about specs, then what's the harm in releasing them?

This pretty much sums it up. Nintendo has taken the art of spin to a new level.  I don't think even politicians spin this much, they should call up NCL for some tips! How the blue hell do you buy any electronic product and not know the specs? That's unheard of!

As mentioned earlier, they're not doing anyone any favors. Someone's going to gut their Rev, tinker with it, and release the specs online. Nintendo, in its attempt to be a control freak, will lose it what they value most.

As cliche as it sounds, it ain't the size, its how you use it! So show us! If its weak, its weak. If its another mid-level system, so be it. If you don't speak your mind,  someone else will do it for you.

P.S Another reason the 'Cube was misread as the weaker system is because 3rd parties sloppily programmed for it. More often than not, 3rd party games didn't use the 'Cube to its full potenial, as opposed to Xbox. One could argue that few devs could use the full power of the PS2, but they were at worst, competent, and realistically at best, better than average.  

[Bill Aurion]

How the blue hell do you buy any electronic product and not know the specs?

Yeah, well, I had the Gamecube for a good year before I decided to read up on the specific specs...

Now I really don't want to drop into just outright flaming you people but if you don't stop I will...IF SPECS ARE RELEASED, PEOPLE WILL BITCH, IF SPECS AREN'T RELEASED PEOPLE WILL BITCH!...END...OF...STORY...

[KDR_11k]

All releasing the specs (if they look worse than the X360 specs) will do compared to not releasing them will be starting those stupid "comparing technology" articles that incompetent people with no grasp on the actual meaning of MIPS (zero) write and that look like a practical joke to anyone who ever worked on games in any form. "OMG! Nintendo said it's single core! The PS3 has 9 CPUs! PS3 rocks!". Junk like that.

[UncleBob]

Bill's right.  Nintendo can't win by releasing the specs and they can't win by not releasing them...  There's only one solution.

We must blow up Microsoft and Sony's HQs.

Who's with me?