Author Topic: G4 Interview with Iwata Reveals New Details  (Read 70381 times)

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Offline NRevolutionR

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RE: G4 Interview with Iwata Reveals New Details
« Reply #75 on: September 28, 2005, 03:22:15 PM »
?

Didn't the shell get confirmed by Nintendo Europe?
Quote<BR>    opĀ·tiĀ·mist<BR>    n.<BR>    1. One who usually expects a favorable outcome<BR>    2. Bill Aurion<BR><BR>    Quote<BR>    pes'siĀ·mist<BR>    n.<BR>    1. A person who expects the worst<BR>    2. Ian Sane

Offline Kairon

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RE:G4 Interview with Iwata Reveals New Details
« Reply #76 on: September 28, 2005, 03:23:32 PM »
"I think they didn't go online for the very reason they said they wouldn't: profit. They pinched pennies and it bit them in the ass."

And I'm sure that Nintendo can profit from letting people play Animal Crossing and Mario kart: DS for free.

Nintendo didn't go online with the cube because they couldn't offer anywhere near the experience they wanted to. They didn't have the know-how of Sony or MS, and they didn't have anything close to the groundwork they needed in order to design a server farm system. If they HAD gone online with the Cube, what they said would've been true: they would've expended millions of dollars on a thrown-together online system which would net very few gamers, wouldn't be up to snuff, and give Nintendo a black eye because not only did they enter online after Sony and MS, but they did so horribly. So, yes, it's true: Nintendo didn't go online because it wouldn't have been profitable. Why wouldn't it have been profitable? Because as per Nintendo standards, they couldn't do the things they wanted with the online medium at that time. You may have wanted Nintendo to go online with the Cube, but that's a pipe dream when you take into accound how prepared the company was for a technology that's exploded beyond their expertise, and when you take into account exactly the sort of experience that Nintendo wanted to provide. You see, it goes back to Nintendo: they didn't go online with the cube because to do so, to offer such a rushed inferior and half-hearted product would have been Un-Nintendo. Observe: The Mario Kart: Double Dash Lan mode.

"I think you're overestimating Sony and MS. Just because they're big and powerful doesn't mean they have some unstoppable advantage. The Xbox wasn't even profitable. At some point MS can't just throw money around to make stuff happen."

Tell that to Netscape, Oracle, and Apple.

Actually Ian, I think you're underestimating Sony and Microsoft. These companies aren't staying still, they're hurtling headlong into fierce competition to define the future of your living room. These multibillion dollar corporations know how to play a commodities market, a PR battle, a technology race, a media blitz.

The only thing that MS and Sony can't do is what Nintendo is doing right now with their Rev controller: completely up-ending the tea table. (cookies to anyone who can remind me where that reference came from!)

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Offline KnowsNothing

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RE: G4 Interview with Iwata Reveals New Details
« Reply #77 on: September 28, 2005, 03:25:55 PM »
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Offline zakkiel

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RE: G4 Interview with Iwata Reveals New Details
« Reply #78 on: September 28, 2005, 03:55:09 PM »
Quote

But the percentage of the total userbase that buys the games drops and that gives third parties the idea that their game isn't selling as well as it should. When they make projections for how many copies they're going to sell they don't take into account multi-console owners. They make an estimate based on 100% of the userbase, when only 75% (I'm just pulling this number out of my ass here) would even considering buying the Cube version The game can sell fine with that 75% but it could still end up lower than predicted.
Then they are a) dumb for not correcting their model, and b) stupid for caring about how much they think they should make as opposed to how much they actually did. A port to the GC is profitable based on absolute sales, not the ratio of sales to user base.

Quote

Even the motion control of the remote if put in a normal controller could give Nintendo a huge edge that would leave the competition scrambling.
No, I think it would be a G I M M I C K (stupid censor). A handful of games would include some meaningful tilt functionality (mostly pinball and such). A few more would make a half-hearted effort to have some extra thing that depends on the tilt. The rest would ignore it completely. FPSs and RTSs would control as they always have, e.g. suckily. No new genres would open up. Nintendo would be the poor man's console with a pointless extra frill in their controller, and this forum would be filled with people shrieking about Nintendo always overhyping their innovations (with justice).

The thing about the console wars is, you can't win. Neither Sony or MS are going anywhere. They will be engaged in the same, costly, futile struggle for dominance until the end of time. Could Nintendo join in the fray? Probably, though not with great success. Can I, as a gamer, think of a single reason to wish they would pursue this rather than trying to develop new paradigms? Absolutely not. By the Revolution or not, but don't pretend Nintendo has a duty to engage in a pointless battle or confine themselves to "innovations" that simply don't matter. They aren't a sports team, and they sure aren't in the business to make the same damn things we've seen for the last decade with an extra whistle or two. I can't think of anything that would be more pathetic than for them to come out and say, "Actually, we aren't going to try for a Revolution, because that scares reactionaries. Instead, we're making the same thing everyone else is." If they'd done that, I would be calling for them to become third party developers right about now, because what's the point of them making their own hardware?

Actually, what I don't understand is why you aren't calling for them to be a third party developer. As near as I can tell, you hate every decision they make outside of games, so why would you want them to have their own platform?  
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Offline MarioAllStar

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RE:G4 Interview with Iwata Reveals New Details
« Reply #79 on: September 28, 2005, 04:02:29 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Kairon
The only thing that MS and Sony can't do is what Nintendo is doing right now with their Rev controller: completely up-ending the tea table. (cookies to anyone who can remind me where that reference came from!)


I believe that it comes from how Miyamoto will often take a hands-off approach during the development of games. Then, when he evaluates the work and sees what needs to be better, he "up-ends the tea table" and sort of makes the team take a new direction or redo what was wrong.

Someone please answer me this: If Nintendo includes a traditional shell with each console and additional controller what, aside from lack of HD, would be wrong with the system? You can say that we don't need the remote to begin with, but I really think we do. Otherwise, it would be too difficult to handle the gyro feature and the analog stick at the same time, and I really like the idea of being able to do that.

About past "mistakes" I think that for the most part Nintendo has done the right thing from a quality and business standpoint, but the public interprets it wrong (I suppose you could argue that what the public wants is always right). For example, the N64's cartridges. Everyone was bashing Nintendo for the choice of cartridges over discs, but the load times were horrible on other systems. Nintendo waited until the time was right to use discs, and now we have the best of all worlds--cost, size, and load times.

The same goes for online. Nintendo might have held off for a long time on online, but now we are getting a free online network to play games on. Whether they could have accomplished that in the past on the GameCube I don't know.

I think the main real mistakes Nintendo made were related to marketing and initial appeal. The purple color, non-descriptive ads, etc. This may have turned consumers away, which turns developers away. However, if Nintendo can correct these minor problems (which it seems they are) I believe they will be more successful next generation than in the current one.
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Offline Don'tHate742

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RE: G4 Interview with Iwata Reveals New Details
« Reply #80 on: September 28, 2005, 04:10:00 PM »
This thread has been amazing to read.

Good points by all.

Ian, I see your points. They make sense to me. I just can't see how you can be so pessimistic ALREADY! We've only learned a few CONCRETE details about the REV. Everything else is speculation. If you add up everything we KNOW and not what we think we know, you have a very wonderful system. A wonderful system to look forward to.

--Sleek Console design (Nintendo's answer to the GameCube)
--Mario, Metriod, a Camelot RPG, and SSBM: Online (Nintendo's answer to Luigi's Mansion and not going Online with the cube)
--Virtual Console (Possibly the greatest incentive to buy a system EVER)
--NRC (FPS's? Hmmm....I wonder what console became popular off of a FPS. Nintendo's answer to Halo, and more importantly the Xbox)

That's just the things we know. Imagine what's left in store for us.

You say Nintendo is dropping the ball already due to their inability to compete head-on with MS and Sony. Well let me ask you something...What system are you looking forward to? What features from MS and Sony churn your butter (hehe)?

I'm going to guess none. I bet you could give a rats ass about HDTV (do you have an HDTV?) and many other things your complaining about. You don't know what exactly is going to happen with third-party support next-gen, and even with your pessimistic outlook, Revolution is probably your favorite system thus far with the Xbox 360 only months away from debuting. If that's dropping the ball, then your an idiot. You don't know what you want, you just want.

EDIT:

MarioALLSTAR:
Someone please answer me this: If Nintendo includes a traditional shell with each console and additional controller what, aside from lack of HD, would be wrong with the system? You can say that we don't need the remote to begin with, but I really think we do. Otherwise, it would be too difficult to handle the gyro feature and the analog stick at the same time, and I really like the idea of being able to do that.

There hasn't been any mention of including the shell in each console. However, they have mentioned to a point where it's basically official that they will include the analogue stick attachment in each console.

I get your point however. The NRC (with the analogue attachment and shell) can do everything any competing company can and more. That's what Reggie was talking about when he said an "and" company. There is so much freedom in Nintendo's design that I can't see how it can be ignored.
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Offline stevey

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RE: G4 Interview with Iwata Reveals New Details
« Reply #81 on: September 28, 2005, 04:32:16 PM »
I getting sick of Ian so back on topic. no one said this yet but IWATA said that miyamoto is working very hard on mario 128 and hopes it will be ready at launch! that now make the launch title for the reggielution to metroid prime 3, ssbO and mario 128 and/or zelda:tp making this the best launch of a system every!!!1!! with 4 killer app there no way nintendo can lose.
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Offline mjbd

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RE:G4 Interview with Iwata Reveals New Details
« Reply #82 on: September 28, 2005, 04:52:44 PM »
Everything I have heard lately from Nintendo has been positive in my mind.  I know some people are troubled by the fact that Nintendo may not get some ports do to the fact that it may be hard to port the control scheme.  This may be accurate, Rev may get less ports than even Gamecube has been getting.  However, that  doesnt mean less 3rd party support.  Gamecube has shown that people buy Nintendo systems for the exclusives, ports dont usually tend to sell very well.   Rev will continue this trend, but in a more successful manner.  Third parties will be more inclined to release exclusive software for a system with truly unique features.  Keep in mind that we havent had any real impressions of software, so until we see real game footage, along with impressions, we wont know if this is the worst or greatest move nintendo has made.
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Offline Djunknown

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RE:G4 Interview with Iwata Reveals New Details
« Reply #83 on: September 28, 2005, 05:49:23 PM »
By a show of hands (or thumbs), who actually saw the interview? Somebody....anybody? I didn't since I don't have flash. In my paranoid delusional mind, Flash is an invitation for spyware and other sorts of bad things. Maybe I'll see it on my school computer...

Anyway, I've pretty much gotten over the HD-issue. My family scored a flat panel HDTV not so long ago (Magnavox 26' for 900 at Circuit City), and imported some component cables. Couple that with some surround sound (Altec 251 for 99.99), and I guess I have the ultimate 'Cube experience. And yes, its pretty damn good.  As long as there's 480p, that's fine with me.

As I've mentioned in other posts, the big N is needs to go the extra miles with the Rev controller.  The devs and publishers can sing its praises all day long, but we need to see the games. As of now, publishers really don't have an incentive to be creative. The money's too good. My inner cynic tells me they'll ride this videogame thing until it crashes, make like Enron(Take the money and run) and buy some private island somewhere.

The big N has to prove that at the very least, it can do what normal controllers can do. Ideally, it will trump the normal controller we know, making us wonder how the hell did we play videogames with just buttons. My inner conspiracist tells me that id would love to put Quake 4 on the rev, with free on-line play, superb controls, but MS thows them money hats because they know the Rev version is just too good.

Now if games will continue to be no more than 50 USD, we'd be all set...
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Offline Bill Aurion

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RE: G4 Interview with Iwata Reveals New Details
« Reply #84 on: September 28, 2005, 05:55:56 PM »
Considering games will be much cheaper to develop according to Ninty, 50 dollar games are pretty much a given...Iwata even talked about a dynamic pricing system (like for cheaper non-games, perhaps) which would lower that even further...And stop worrying about the games, we'll most likely see something gameplay-based by the end of the year...
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Offline WuTangTurtle

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RE: G4 Interview with Iwata Reveals New Details
« Reply #85 on: September 28, 2005, 06:00:46 PM »
ugh, if games for Rev costs $59.99 in the US imagine how much import titles will cost for us importers, and as for you aussie's out there you'll all prolly get scr@wed in the bums at the register.  IMO game prices should go down $10, it would help more game purchases, and a chance for small dev games instead of sequels.  I don't know a single person who owns a PSP that is happy to pay $49.99 for a PSP game, and now with the confirmed XBOX 360 games being $59.99 scares me.

Offline Ian Sane

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RE: G4 Interview with Iwata Reveals New Details
« Reply #86 on: September 28, 2005, 06:01:18 PM »
"What system are you looking forward to? What features from MS and Sony churn your butter (hehe)?"

Nothing really grabs me by the balls but at least they're focused on traditional gamers.  The Revolution is still the console I'm most interested in BUT I don't care for Nintendo "giving up" and going off on a tangent to solve a "problem" they made up because they have too much pride to admit that  they did somethings wrong with the Cube and that competition sometimes has good ideas that they shouldn't reject just to be different.  Nintendo saying that people are growing tired of games as they are, I feel, is largely an excuse.  The Cube didn't sell that well so obviously it must be because gaming is getting stale.  Obviously Nintendo did everything perfectly and it's the traditional gaming market that's broken.

I don't want what Sony and MS are offering but I don't want some "magic wand" controller targeted at non-gamers that fails to meet my console needs even more than the Cube did.  Nintendo isn't perfect but they're still the console maker that targets my gaming tastes the most.  So I don't want the only console maker I like to pay too much attention to a non-gamer market that I am not a part of.  Basically I'm don't want Nintendo to reject me because then I pretty much have no reason to play games anymore.  

Offline Artimus

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RE:G4 Interview with Iwata Reveals New Details
« Reply #87 on: September 28, 2005, 06:07:00 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"What system are you looking forward to? What features from MS and Sony churn your butter (hehe)?"

Nothing really grabs me by the balls but at least they're focused on traditional gamers.  The Revolution is still the console I'm most interested in BUT I don't care for Nintendo "giving up" and going off on a tangent to solve a "problem" they made up because they have too much pride to admit that  they did somethings wrong with the Cube and that competition sometimes has good ideas that they shouldn't reject just to be different.  Nintendo saying that people are growing tired of games as they are, I feel, is largely an excuse.  The Cube didn't sell that well so obviously it must be because gaming is getting stale.  Obviously Nintendo did everything perfectly and it's the traditional gaming market that's broken.

I don't want what Sony and MS are offering but I don't want some "magic wand" controller targeted at non-gamers that fails to meet my console needs even more than the Cube did.  Nintendo isn't perfect but they're still the console maker that targets my gaming tastes the most.  So I don't want the only console maker I like to pay too much attention to a non-gamer market that I am not a part of.  Basically I'm don't want Nintendo to reject me because then I pretty much have no reason to play games anymore.


Since when did you play a console? You play the games. Nintendo makes the GAMES you like the most. I doubt that changes.

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Offline mantidor

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RE:G4 Interview with Iwata Reveals New Details
« Reply #89 on: September 28, 2005, 06:31:59 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Artimus
Quote

Originally posted by: ruby_onix
Quote

Originally posted by: Avinash_Tyagi

Why do you need this?  The controller itself allows you to look around freely already.

Because I was suggesting a control scheme that was actually based on Metroid Prime's controls, so people could more easily realize what's missing.


Why do they need to base it on MP? OPEN YOUR MIND.

Goodness, people really are anti-progress.



Exactly my thoughts. Besides, the basic Nunchuck and remote set up has two shoulder buttons on the analog, the big nice A button, the B trigger button and a whole Dpad. I dont see only two buttons on that set up. As for a map button they can easily map it pun not intended on the screen, point and shoot to an icon and theres your map. The option to open the map can be disabled or not with an easy movement of your hand to avoid open the map in a boss fight. Yes the idea has its flaws still, but I thought about it in five minutes, what do you think Retro and Nitendo will come up with? Seriously that controller is amazing and if its as precise as has been suggested, pushing buttons will became obsolete.

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Offline PaLaDiN

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RE: G4 Interview with Iwata Reveals New Details
« Reply #90 on: September 28, 2005, 07:20:20 PM »
"Nothing really grabs me by the balls but at least they're focused on traditional gamers."

Have you even seen what Sony's focused on? How is a powerful Linux box focused on traditional gamers? How does all this multimedia crap focus on traditional gamers? Are you telling me Iwata's comments scare you but Ken Kutaragi's comments don't?

You know what I think you're saying here? Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying "sure, give us all a whole bunch of crap we don't need, make a system that doesn't even focus on games anymore and I will gladly suck it up, but don't you dare try to share my hobby with anybody who isn't me". I think you're saying "the PSP is more focused on traditional gamers than the DS". Is that what you're saying?

I really hope I'm just putting words in your mouth here...
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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: G4 Interview with Iwata Reveals New Details
« Reply #91 on: September 28, 2005, 07:47:55 PM »
"Are you telling me Iwata's comments scare you but Ken Kutaragi's comments don't?"

Ken Kutaragi's comments still scare me.  It's just that even with all sorts of extra crap added the PS3 controller can still accurately play virtually every existing type of game reasonably well (well the jury's still out on the boomerang design but it has more than two buttons at least).  The Rev controller can't, or at least not unless the shell is included with every controller.  The remote by itself can't play any past game made after the NES without a big workaround.  Sony might be focusing a lot on extra junk completely unrelated to games but games as they exist right now can still be played on their console.

Offline denjet78

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RE:G4 Interview with Iwata Reveals New Details
« Reply #92 on: September 28, 2005, 08:19:22 PM »
Ian Sane:

Quote

Sony might be focusing a lot on extra junk completely unrelated to games but games as they exist right now can still be played on their console.


I just have one question for you:

Did you feel the same way when the NES came out with a controller that was completely different from anything that had ever been seen before?

How about when the N64 controller was revealed?

Sure, they weren't perfect, but they both redefined gaming to where it stands today. To where you are arguing that it needs to remain.

Or would you simply be happy still playing games with an Atari 2600 controller?

I ran into a nutjob one time who actually infered (I won't say he stated because he didn't but more or less this is what he said) that controllers had reached the pinnicle of their evolution and that nothing would ever be any better.

Without evolution life stagnates and dies. Sure you can say Nintendo's being a bit pushy by not having a direct relation to current controller designes but if you really look at the Rev controller, really look at it for what it is, you can easily see that it can do what current controllers can do, and so much more with a level of precision and player involvment that's never been attained before.

I remember when I first played Super Mario Bros. and my original inclination when I reached the end of a level and was jumping for the flag was to actually raise the controller above my head as I did it, as if that would somehow cause Mario to jump higher. I actually had to unlearn that behavior patter. Nintendo, with the Rev controller, is now feeding directly into that base instinct. How much simpler can games get? But beyond that, it still allows for a level of control that is beyond anything that currently exists. Even the keyboard and mouse.

This controller exists in true 3D space. Not psudo 3D as every other control set-up to this point has used. You've been using a simplified interface to represent movement in a real environment. Now, you're representing 3D movement as it really exists. You can create games simplistic enough that only one button is needed to play them, and anyone can comprehend because the main controller is so easy to understand. Or you can make a game so convoluted and nuanced that it would be practically like interacting with a piece of living art. And don't even get me started on the uses for controller add-ons like the control stick. And please don't even try to whine about cost. How many companies have gone out of their way to create ENTIRE controllers or guns or dance pads just for one game?

I've always been interested in shaking up the establishment. Sticking with the status quo is dangerous as it breeds interdependency on existing systems that, if one ever needs to change for whatever reason, would quickly find itself between a rock and a hard place. Or a market unwilling to accept that change and a current regime bent against it even if it meant certain extinction.

Offline ShyGuy

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RE: G4 Interview with Iwata Reveals New Details
« Reply #93 on: September 28, 2005, 09:22:19 PM »
I watched the video, had to watch it twice because the audio was lousy thanks to the streaming. I did hear Iwata say (or his translator say) that they are still undecided on if they are going to bundle in the shell, which he likes to call a skin. So the shell is confirmed.

Offline Ian Sane

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RE: G4 Interview with Iwata Reveals New Details
« Reply #94 on: September 28, 2005, 09:33:02 PM »
"Did you feel the same way when the NES came out with a controller that was completely different from anything that had ever been seen before?"

Well to be honest I was like three at the time the NES came out.  The NES controller is not much different than the Atari one really.  The Atari had a joystick and the NES had a d-pad.  Both digital inputs and arcade games translated to the NES controller perfectly.  It's not that big of a difference.  Its not like essential Atari controller functionality was scrapped.

The N64 controller is exactly what the Rev should follow as a model.  Every SNES game is perfectly playable on the N64 controller.  The d-pad and the L&R buttons buttons where there.  Plus there was at least four face buttons and they were arranged in a similar fashion.  The only thing missing was the select button but with extra face buttons on there that would be an easy fix.

The Rev controller's big flaw is that it removes existing functionality.  They just went from seven buttons to TWO.  That's a HUGE difference.  Evolution is important.  The SNES and N64 controllers were perfect examples of a good evolution.  They took what was there and added to it making it better.  If humans grew wings out of their shoulderblades that would be a pretty useful evolution.  But if their arms turned into wings it would completely ruin the ability to use tools as we know them.  That would be pretty weak.  The Rev controller is Nintendo turning arms into wings.  They have something new that could be very awesome but it's at the expense of what's already proven.

That's why I'm more in favour of a traditional controller with motion sensors.  That would be pretty much the same thing as the remote but without CRUCIAL controller elements removed for no good reason.

Offline Mario

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RE: G4 Interview with Iwata Reveals New Details
« Reply #95 on: September 28, 2005, 09:44:32 PM »
While it removes a few buttons, it ADDS about 10 billion different new input methods.

Ian, I know what you mean but they CAN'T put too many buttons on it, or it'll scare off their new audience. That's why a traditional controller is a seperate option.

Offline Hostile Creation

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RE:G4 Interview with Iwata Reveals New Details
« Reply #96 on: September 28, 2005, 10:11:17 PM »
HC: Honourary Aussie<BR>Originally posted by: ThePerm<BR>
YOUR IWATA AVATAR LOOKS LIKE A REAL HOSTILE CREATION!!!!!<BR><BR>only someone with leoperd print sheets could produce such an image!!!<BR>

Offline ruby_onix

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RE: G4 Interview with Iwata Reveals New Details
« Reply #97 on: September 28, 2005, 10:25:23 PM »
Quote

Ian, I know what you mean but they CAN'T put too many buttons on it, or it'll scare off their new audience. That's why a traditional controller is a seperate option.

The analog nunchuck wasn't even part of Nintendo's plan until third parties bitched to Nintendo about the uselessness of a two-button controller.

Quote

Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
Ahem.

Yeah, because this (with inset L&R buttons on the right side of the unit) is such an unreasonable request.
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Offline WuTangTurtle

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RE: G4 Interview with Iwata Reveals New Details
« Reply #98 on: September 28, 2005, 10:36:26 PM »
wow that is as awesome as that ign DS mockup with like 8 screens!

About the Atari Controller u may think it is not very different than the Nes Controller but in Actuality it is very different.  The Atari controller made you use  a complete hand on the joystick itself, and the other to hold the controller down and press the one button.  The Nes controller was vastly more functional.

This is where it gets tricky, will the revolution remote be a step back seeing as how one hand is forced to use the gyro control?  I think not, in actuality i think it gives it more functionality.  Waving it around and having your thumb and index finger open to press a button and use the d-pad, thats a lot of function for just one hand, leaving your other hand open to use whatever is added to the expansion slot, whether it be a joystick, 6 button addon device or another remote set for say something like a boxing game or a sheild and sword mechanic.

However you have to stop and think how much can you can actually do in one spurt.  For example the PS2 controller has 4 face buttons, 4 shoulder buttons, and 2 analog sticks that can be pressed down as a button.  Very little games used the analog sticks as buttons, why?  IMO I think adding that functionality makes the control a bit too complicated, especially when all the buttons on the ps2 controller is being utilized.  If you think about it this is the reason why some people left gaming or have decided not to ever pick up a controller.

See where Nintendo is addressing here?  Functionality and simplicity.  Hopefully this can be achieved.

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RE: G4 Interview with Iwata Reveals New Details
« Reply #99 on: September 28, 2005, 11:11:27 PM »
I never said a trigger was out of the question.  I was just making a point.  Anyway, I think two triggers on a design like that might be too awkward (though I'm not certain without trying).
Are you sure about the analog thing, or is that something you just came up with out of nowhere?  Because it does sound believable, but I hadn't heard that before.
HC: Honourary Aussie<BR>Originally posted by: ThePerm<BR>
YOUR IWATA AVATAR LOOKS LIKE A REAL HOSTILE CREATION!!!!!<BR><BR>only someone with leoperd print sheets could produce such an image!!!<BR>