Topic: Pearing down the Revolution controller

[Fro]

Just because they remove buttons doesn't mean they remove the functionality of those buttons from the controller.

Nintendo has some new control scheme where they can at least give the functionality of the 360, PS3, and GC controllers in a simplier, more intuitive control scheme.

In other words, the goal is to make the controller as easy to use as the NES or SNES controller for a novice, have it be less cluttered,yet retain the functions of all those dang buttons and sticks on the current GC controller.  You also need to make it so you can hit all those functions at once or independently.

The revolutionary design Nintendo has cooked up does all that and provides new types of games to play for home consoles.

The Gamecube, X-Box, and PS2 are still using the same basic controls that arcade games have used for the past 30 years.  Surely there has to be a better way.

If you had gyros and pressure sensitive handles, you possibly could get rid of the digital pad, camera stick, L, R, and Z buttons, for example.  That would go a long way towards making things easier to use.

[stevey]

what I'm trying to say is that the snes controller did not have a "+" but a -+-  bx are closer than ay. It not like the + shape  that the ps has that suck. so It will look like this

[nickmitch]

I dunno if I'd like pressure sensitive handles. Sometmes I grip the controller when a game gets frustrating, but that's just me. I'd like Nintendo to keep the L and R buttons.

[Ian Sane]

"The SNES Wavebird is EXACTLY what Ian wanted. In fact, I remember him posting a picture of it that he quickly made that looks strikingly similar to Ruby's pic"

Yes it is pretty much exactly what I wanted.  Though at this point, even thought I would be happy with a controller like that, if that's all they had I would be pretty peeved they hid it for so long.

"The Gamecube, X-Box, and PS2 are still using the same basic controls that arcade games have used for the past 30 years. Surely there has to be a better way."

What sort of logic is that?  I'd say the fact that has remained for 30 years shows how solid of a design it is.

Wheels have been round for over a hundred years.  Surely a better shape must exist.  Sometimes things stay the way they are because they're the best.

[couchmonkey]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane

Yes it is pretty much exactly what I wanted.  Though at this point, even thought I would be happy with a controller like that, if that's all they had I would be pretty peeved they hid it for so long.

100% agreed.  I'd like Nintendo to do something a little more traditional in terms of button layout, but that would be no reason to hide it.  I'm sure Nintendo knows that though.  I mean, releasing a controller that's even less unique than your last one is not an innovation.  I'd like to take a second to harp on my personal pet-peeve.  If they go back to a Super NES button layout, great, but please shape the buttons differently like the North American Super Nintendo did!  It makes it so much easier to learn the buttons.

Edit: changed U.S. to North America to appease dumb Canadians (like me).  And Mexicans...don't know if they got the same Super NES as us, or if there are any on here, but you know, equality and all that nice stuff.  

[nemo_83]

"Just because they remove buttons doesn't mean they remove the functionality of those buttons from the controller."

That is the point I've been trying to prove, but I think squeeze grips complicates things further.  However they do it it will work similar to how the c stick replaced the c buttons.

"Wheels have been round for over a hundred years. Surely a better shape must exist. Sometimes things stay the way they are because they're the best."

The wheel is perfect and that is why we need to get that thing back on the controllers.  The first controller ever for a home console was a nob/wheel you turned to play Pong.  

And uh, wheels have been around something like fifty thousand years.




I'm curious where you guys believe the revolution is at if it isn't in the controller (if you believe the wavebird report)?  Do you believe they will package in two controllers; one traditional and the other something out there like a haptic stylus?  Do you believe they will really try to claim a single gyro is a revolution?  Next next gen the competition would put gyros in their controllers and claim Nintendo copied them when Nintendo uses two.  Do you believe they will finally package in VR?

[KDR_11k]

The Cstick could replace the c buttons because it wouldn't be used on the same games without adaption. The N64 games on the Rev would need modification to properly work with the C-stick.

[stevey]

maybe c-up and c-right will be move the the z button and adding another z but calling it c it be alright.

"Yes it is pretty much exactly what I wanted. Though at this point, even thought I would be happy with a controller like that, if that's all they had I would be pretty peeved they hid it for so long."

OMG even when you get your way you still bitch! There is no way of pleasing you is there?

[nickmitch]

Even if the controller has the traditional look and feel that we all want nobody will be happy if the 'big secret' turns out to be nothing at all. It can't be minor at this point. It's been far too long and Nintendo has been far too secretive to just give us another minor upgrade of the wavebird. Frankly, if the controller was just that, I'd be pissed too.

[ShyGuy]

I'd be happy with one little controller innovation from Nintendo, considering that both MS and Sony added no new functionality to their next gen controllers. How hard would it have been for them to put in a trackball or scroll wheel?

[stevey]

they never said it a "big secret" a great button lay is fine with me the resone it a secret it will be very easy to copy for the 360 and ps3 just moving the button a little like the xbox s controller or like ps controller rip off the n64.

[MrMojoRising]

Quote
Originally posted by: ShyGuy
I'd be happy with one little controller innovation from Nintendo, considering that both MS and Sony added no new functionality to their next gen controllers. How hard would it have been for them to put in a trackball or scroll wheel?

I agree, even something little like that would appease me.  If they don't at least have something as different as a trackball or scroll wheel then Nintendo is officially stupid for hyping this "Revolution."  I'm fairly confident they have something up their sleeves though.

Concerning the button layout and the SNES style I hope they keep the different shaped/sized buttons that the GC controller had.  Not necissarily the exact same button layout as GC but I like being able to feel which button is which without looking.

[nemo_83]

I guess I'll post this evolution

One problem with any screen is that you can hardly go back and forth between a screen and the thumb controls.  That is why the trackball and scroll wheel are a better idea for thumb/mouse control on the controller; you get tactile feedback without an expensive gimicky underused haptic screen.    

[nickmitch]

I'd be happy with the "combined revolutionary theorum" that I just made up: Where the SNES wave bird has gyros, a track ball AND a scroll wheel. And maybe something else, I dunno.

[nemo_83]

The trick here is to convince the hardcore gamers that it is revolutionary.  I feel that if they just slapped a trackball and scroll wheels on there, the mainstreme would easily find it revolutionary.  I can't guarantee that to be true with the hardcore gamers, especially stubborn fanboys, until they can do something really cool like swing a sword in Zelda or aim perfectly in Metroid.  

[Dasmos]

Track balls and scrolls wheels??? Man anyone who finds that revolutionary is obviously a dire idiots!! That is so "meh".......not revolutionary in the slightest..

[ShyGuy]

I wouldn't call track balls and scroll wheels revolutionary, they are more evolutionary. That's why I referenced them in regards to the Xbox 360 and PS3. Those console companies are more akin to adapting existing conventions.

Still, I think either device would be a boon to console game playing, no matter who implemented them.

[nemo_83]

I can't remember if I said this already in this thread, but I have always felt the greatest benefit to having a controller that is break apart is that it can be used along with a camera if Nintendo goes that route.

[MrMojoRising]

Quote
Originally posted by: Dasmos
Track balls and scrolls wheels??? Man anyone who finds that revolutionary is obviously a dire idiots!! That is so "meh".......not revolutionary in the slightest..

I'm not saying they are revolutionary I'm saying that I expect at least something as minor as a trackball or scroll wheel.  I still think that Nintendo would look stupid for calling it a revolution, but then again, I can't think of anything they could really do to warrent such a cocky name.

[Dasmos]

My comment wasn't aimed at you MrMojoRising, it was aimed at Nemo's comment at saying the mainstream would see it as a revolution.....

P.S. Mr. Mojo Rising is it alright if i call you Jim Morrison??

[stevey]

Hear the best fake rev Track ball controller I can find on the net. I fonded it hear but the site has lot of very fake controller like the nes

[Spak-Spang]

Stevey:  I really like that REV Fake you posted.  The Buttons need to slightly adjusted on the controller, but it works.

[nickmitch]

That would work PERFECTLY if the "C-ball" and D-pad wee bigger.

[Ian Sane]

The only probably with that trackball controller aside from the size of the d-pad and c-ball is that it wouldn't work that well for backwards compatibility with the Cube.  I imagine taking a game designed to use the c-stick and shoehorning it into a c-ball design wouldn't be all that smooth.  Plus the Z-button is absent though I guess you could map it to select or something.

However the design works really well with the NES, SNES, and N64 and Cube games can use the Cube controllers though I think that would be somewhat inconvenient for any Rev owner who doesn't own a Cube.  I would want the option to customize the button mapping.  For the NES I personally would want the B button above the A button like the Y & B buttons on the SNES.  And the N64 needs the option to assign L to Z or L depending on the game.

The ergonomics need some work too.  Handles would be nice.  But it's still really good in theory and it adds something new without wanging traditional game design.  

[Ian Sane]

I just thought of an idea for the controller.  One thing I thought was really cool about the N64 controller was the slot for accessories.  It was pretty much just used for rumble and memory cards but the potential was great.  Having something like that on the Rev would provide a lot of flexibility.

How do you fit rumble and motion sensors in the same controller?  You don't have to.  Logically you wouldn't want to use both at the same time anyway so you have a slot and a rumble adapter or motion sensor can be inserted.  It's like how some GBA games have special cartridges.  Controllers come with a rumble adapter as a standard and they don't use batteries or anything.  They run off the controller's power like rumble does now.  It would probably be pretty expensive to include a rumble pack and a motion sensor and maybe even a mic with every controller.  But they could include those adapters with each console.  So no matter what third parties know that ever Rev owner has access to motion control and a microphone for at least one player.  Obviously the "packs" can be sold seperately for other controllers.

This allows for flexibility, keeps controller costs down, and solves the userbase problem that keeps third parties from supporting accessories.