Topic: Could they really distinguish this apart from the Game Boy line?

[JonLeung]

Nintendo has called this their "third pillar", a new product distinct from their GBAs and GCNs.  But could it really be the start of a whole new line of products separate from consoles and (Game Boy) handhelds?

Obviously details are still scarce about the DS, but I still don't see enough to consider this an entirely new product.  It's still a handheld, and primarily for playing games.  It might hit a different market if it did more than play games, like playing videos or running applications but I don't see this kind of thing coming from Nintendo.

By not having the Game Boy name attached to it, and insisting on that difference, sure, that's a sign.  Though the average Joe consumer would call any handheld a Game Boy.

The "Game Boy" name itself sells a lot...the product must be radically new enough to distinguish itself apart from the other Game Boys (at least to those other than the average Joe) if they won't even call it a Game Boy.  Otherwise, as I joked on other boards, they should call it the Game Boy Advance DuAl Screened System.  Note the acronym.

I had more questions than this, but I'm guessing like everyone else, we'd have to wait until at least E3 for further details...*sigh*

[Rob91883]

I think Nintendo is capable of doing something totally different from the the gameboy brand.  If Nintendo is known for anything, it's being different.  But will the average consumer differentiate the new product from their past Gameboy brand? I dont think the consumer will see any difference, for them it's another handheld.  I wouldn't even be suprised if they add the word "Boy" for whatever name they decide to make for the DS(Virtual Boy).              
   

     
       

[Ian Sane]

Personally I don't see why Nintendo insists on this even being different than the Gameboy.  What possible negative effects are there for using the strong Gameboy brand to push this product?  Lower GBA sales?  Well the PSP may very well cause that anyway.  Plus if the DS is backwards compatible it's a non-issue because GBA games can still be made and will still sell.

I can however see some negative effects of not using the Gameboy brand the most notable being that the DS is a strange concept that people probably won't instantly accept.  However if it's the Gameboy DS people are going to associate the Gameboy name with quality and will show more interest.  Otherwise they may just see it as a weird concept system like the Virtual Boy.  Plus people are going to consider this a replacement for the GBA.  They just plain ARE regardless of whatever Nintendo says.  Therefore it would be wise to actually treat it as such or risk pissing people off when they complain about the lack of GBA compatibility particularly when GBA games continue to be made by Nintendo (which they will continue to make if they truly consider it a third pillar).  If Nintendo has two portables out there that play completely different games that's the sort of nightmare that could give the PSP the chance to runaway with the market.

I don't think the DS will usher in a new era of Nintendo dominance if it's a success but I do think that it has the potential to completely f*ck everything up and kill Nintendo's portable market if they're not careful.  If it's treated like a completely seperate entity from Nintendo it will probably bomb and then the GBA will be finished since it can't compete with the PSP's hardware (unless the PSP has some huge problem but it's rather risky to assume it will fail).  As a third entity it's a goofy concept system with little mainstream appeal.  As the GBA successor it's an instant hit that's also innovative and presents a new concept to the mainstream.

Promoting the DS as a third type of game player is as ridiculous as promoting a six wheeled car as a completely different form of transportation.

[vudu]

they probably don't want it to be associated with the gameboy because if it bombs it will soil the gameboy name.  i don't think anyone here thinks poorly about the gameboy advance because the virtual boy was a flop, but many people out there had negative feelings about the gamecube before it even came out because it was the successor to the n64.  (i.e. people think the n64 is kiddie, therefore the gamecube must be.)

[jasonditz]

Just because two things from the same company are handheld and play video games doesn't mean they can't be distinct product lines. As the market for video games keeps getting bigger there's no reason it can't support more types of systems.

Asking Nintendo to lock itself into one handheld at a time is like asking GM to only manufacture one model of car per year.



 

[Stimutacs Addict]

Quote
Originally posted by: jasonditz
Just because two things from the same company are handheld and play video games doesn't mean they can't be distinct product lines. As the market for video games keeps getting bigger there's no reason it can't support more types of systems.

Asking Nintendo to lock itself into one handheld at a time is like asking GM to only manufacture one model of car per year.

well said, but what are the chances that Nintendo can truly vary the gameplay enough so that the dual screens function not as another cheap "innovative" gimmick, but rather in an essential and creative manner?

Nintendo has quite the opportunity to create yet another market; their "third pillar" could be a key factor in the future of gaming, given that they include easy to use wireless play (for more than 4 people, preferably).

the DS could be the future for nintendo (seriously, how many more console systems do you think the big N has left before they have to dip out of the ridiculous console wars? .... it pisses me off just to think how much the industry has changed... i just wish that things could be like the old days, when games were judged not by the color of blood but by the content of their characters)




[/lamentations]

[Draygaia]

I never even thought of it as anything related to a GBA successor.

[odifiend]

Quote
Originally posted by: jasonditz
Just because two things from the same company are handheld and play video games doesn't mean they can't be distinct product lines. As the market for video games keeps getting bigger there's no reason it can't support more types of systems.

Asking Nintendo to lock itself into one handheld at a time is like asking GM to only manufacture one model of car per year.

Your GM analogy kind of backfires.  GM makes different types of cars for different types of people.  Most car companies make an economy size vechicle, then you have your mini vans and SUVs and sports cars, etc...  The point is GM is selling to different types of cars to appeal to everyone.  
Nintendo on the other hand has continued to stress that they are in the business for videogames only.  So they will end up having two distinct handhelds on the market that will be designed to play videogames and nothing else.  These two devices sound like they will appeal to the same people so Nintendo isn't really expanding their market share or appealing to specific classes of people.
My main issue with this third pillar now that we know that it is a handheld too, is why?  I don't understand why they couldn't have just pushed forward the next GBA and incorporated the DS into it.

[jasonditz]

Quote
Originally posted by: Stimutacs Addict

Quote
Originally posted by: jasonditz
Just because two things from the same company are handheld and play video games doesn't mean they can't be distinct product lines. As the market for video games keeps getting bigger there's no reason it can't support more types of systems.

Asking Nintendo to lock itself into one handheld at a time is like asking GM to only manufacture one model of car per year.

well said, but what are the chances that Nintendo can truly vary the gameplay enough so that the dual screens function not as another cheap "innovative" gimmick, but rather in an essential and creative manner?

Nintendo has quite the opportunity to create yet another market; their "third pillar" could be a key factor in the future of gaming, given that they include easy to use wireless play (for more than 4 people, preferably).

the DS could be the future for nintendo (seriously, how many more console systems do you think the big N has left before they have to dip out of the ridiculous console wars? .... it pisses me off just to think how much the industry has changed... i just wish that things could be like the old days, when games were judged not by the color of blood but by the content of their characters)




[/lamentations]

If you're counting handhelds Nintendo is not only winning the console wars but are dominating quite handily.

I agree though, to make it a distinct product line out of the DS its going to take more than dual screens. I have high hopes for that patent with the acceleration sensors on it that they might make the whole control system very unique.  

[jasonditz]

Quote

Your GM analogy kind of backfires.  GM makes different types of cars for different types of people.  Most car companies make an economy size vechicle, then you have your mini vans and SUVs and sports cars, etc...  The point is GM is selling to different types of cars to appeal to everyone.  
Nintendo on the other hand has continued to stress that they are in the business for videogames only.  So they will end up having two distinct handhelds on the market that will be designed to play videogames and nothing else.

Those cars are all "modes of transportation and nothing else" too, that doesn't mean they're automatically for the same type of people. Nintendo spokesman have been talking so much lately about marketing games to the "average consumer" it seems like they're doing much the same as the early car industry having multiple models.

[kirby_killer_dedede]

It's unanimous (Mr. Von Riktor and I agree): No.

[ThePerm]

The Assyrians conquered to many lands at one time and spread themselves so thin that they collapsed....Nintendo has a ton of support on gba, but not as great of support on gamecube..and its further dividing its market....maybe Nintendo is turni ng itself into a handheld company?

[jasonditz]

Nintendo is trying to become a bigger company in a growing market... they created the handheld market out of nothing without dividing the console market, I don't see why no one thinks they can create another market with a product that we know almost nothing about.

[odifiend]

As I mentioned in my earlier post, the DS sounds even more niche than the GBA.  I don't see how that is creating another market, in fact it sounds like it is going to make some Gameboy supporters choose between which handheld they want.

[manunited4eva22]

More niche than a GBA?  At 20million+ sales, tell me how niche that is.

[odifiend]

The point is it is not hitting anyone new.  Ditz was speaking as though DS would have a huge and seperate marketshare.  In fact that is my point exactly, what new market are you hitting when you already have 20 million+ sales?  While expect to be impressed by the DS, I can't understand why it and the next gameboy can't be combined.

[Gamecubivore]

I just know that Nintendo is ridiculously silly if it thinks the DS isn't going to be competing with the PSP. Obviouslly the systems are very different but people (lots of them) will ask themselves the question "Do I want a DS or a PSP?".

[jasonditz]

Quote
Originally posted by: odifiend
The point is it is not hitting anyone new.  Ditz was speaking as though DS would have a huge and seperate marketshare.  In fact that is my point exactly, what new market are you hitting when you already have 20 million+ sales?  While expect to be impressed by the DS, I can't understand why it and the next gameboy can't be combined.

the new market would be the hundreds of million of people worldwide who have played video games and don't own a Gameboy.

Take my parents, for example. Back in the early 80's video games were a major part of their entertainment budget. They bought dozens if not hundreds of Atari 2600 games. They played, their friends played... they were simple and approachable, and fun.

When the NES came out, I couldn't get them to touch it. All those buttons and directional pads were intimidating. That has gotten worse over the last few generations, not better.

The real money in the DS is not in the overlap with the GBA (although it will overlap somewhat). Its in all those people who would like to play video games but feel the games are unapproachable. If the control system is intuitive (and a touchscreen is certainly easy enough to understand, remember, this is the generation that plays all those touch screen slot machine games at casinos) and there are games that don't have a huge learning curve to get started with, they will play them.

[Guitar Smasher]

Quote
Originally posted by: jasonditz

Quote
Originally posted by: odifiend
The point is it is not hitting anyone new.  Ditz was speaking as though DS would have a huge and seperate marketshare.  In fact that is my point exactly, what new market are you hitting when you already have 20 million+ sales?  While expect to be impressed by the DS, I can't understand why it and the next gameboy can't be combined.

the new market would be the hundreds of million of people worldwide who have played video games and don't own a Gameboy.

Take my parents, for example. Back in the early 80's video games were a major part of their entertainment budget. They bought dozens if not hundreds of Atari 2600 games. They played, their friends played... they were simple and approachable, and fun.

When the NES came out, I couldn't get them to touch it. All those buttons and directional pads were intimidating. That has gotten worse over the last few generations, not better.

The real money in the DS is not in the overlap with the GBA (although it will overlap somewhat). Its in all those people who would like to play video games but feel the games are unapproachable. If the control system is intuitive (and a touchscreen is certainly easy enough to understand, remember, this is the generation that plays all those touch screen slot machine games at casinos) and there are games that don't have a huge learning curve to get started with, they will play them.

Do you honestly think your assessment is accurate?  If someone is afraid of a D-pad (and I know your exaggerating), will they really find a touchscreen less 'intimidating'?  If you ask me, two screens is twice as complicated as one.

[Gamecubivore]

And I do agree.

I sincerely doubt that this system will have a revolutionaryly mainstream appeal. Nintendo itself (Well, Iwata, I believe) stated that they expect that it may very well have a niche appeal.

I do believe he was being overly pessimistic at the time when he said a figure of only 10% or so of gamers might 'get it'. . . but I do not think it will transcend the GBA's current market. It seems to me that it is going to be a gamer's machine and I find it very likely it will be a Nintendo gamer's machine (not to say that there won't be a gaggle or three of people who'll snatch it up who've never owned a Gameboy.)

So I think it will likely be right up my alley. . . but not my parent's. . . or my neighbor's.  (but I also think this will be so of the PSP with the cost being more of an issue as well)

I truthfully think the PSP and DS will divide the handheld market pretty nicely and collectively sell about 20 million units. . . I do not think either will be as succesfull as the GBA, and possibly not even collectively.

That is my premature forecast.

[jasonditz]

Quote
Originally posted by: Guitar Smasher

Quote
Originally posted by: jasonditz

the new market would be the hundreds of million of people worldwide who have played video games and don't own a Gameboy.

Take my parents, for example. Back in the early 80's video games were a major part of their entertainment budget. They bought dozens if not hundreds of Atari 2600 games. They played, their friends played... they were simple and approachable, and fun.

When the NES came out, I couldn't get them to touch it. All those buttons and directional pads were intimidating. That has gotten worse over the last few generations, not better.

The real money in the DS is not in the overlap with the GBA (although it will overlap somewhat). Its in all those people who would like to play video games but feel the games are unapproachable. If the control system is intuitive (and a touchscreen is certainly easy enough to understand, remember, this is the generation that plays all those touch screen slot machine games at casinos) and there are games that don't have a huge learning curve to get started with, they will play them.

Do you honestly think your assessment is accurate?  If someone is afraid of a D-pad (and I know your exaggerating), will they really find a touchscreen less 'intimidating'?  If you ask me, two screens is twice as complicated as one.

But again, its a familiar interface in that generation... Touchscreens are ubiquitous to people in that particular demographic, almost all of the newer electronic casino games feature one.

I'm not saying that's the market Nintendo is going after, I'm just saying that's one market that pisses away a lot of money on interactive video game entertainment that really isn't being served in the home market at all.

Although if that is the market they are going after, Telegames announced titles suddenly look a lot more important.