Topic: (Piracy) Gamecube

[honda_insightful]

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Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Yuji: But you still haven't proven that piracy was the most important blow [to the Dreamcast].

Yes, that was my point exactly.  Most people say that the Dreamcast died because of poor timing/competition from the PS2.  *That* was the most imporant factor.

And as I said before, previous systems like Commodore=64 and PS1 and PS2 have been heavily pirated, but they were not killed.  On the contrary, they were wildly sucessful: #1 computer of all time, #1 console of all time, and #1 console of the 128-bit generation (respectively).  This seems to suggest that piracy HELPS a machine to succeed, rather than hurt it.

So I return to earlier position: This little bit of piracy will have virtually no impact on the Cube.  It's not going to die.

[GaimeGuy]

Piracy didn't KILL the DC.    A lot of people  used the poor security of the  DC  to  play copies of their NES/SNES/GB/Genesis and other old console  ROMs on their televisions with a control pad.  Far more  did that than    use it to  get free copies of Sonic Adventure or something like that (at least, judging from what  I hear from  others, and  their  own  uses for it).   People have begun to use the GC for this purpose.   A #planetchatter, whom I shall not name,   owns an N64, but his little sister  is always  hogging it.   Therefore, he  uses the Cube's ripped N64 emulator (from the OoT/MQ bonus disk) to  play  ROMs of all his  N64 games on his GC (he only plays ROMS of legitimate N64 games he owns  on  his Cube)   Hacking a system to do something like THIS is fine.  

Also,  it wasn't Ps2 hype that really killed the DC, either.  More than piracy, more than Ps2 hype:  the  thing that killed the DC was  Sega's past console failures.  They had taken such huge financial blows from the multiple past failures (ex: Sega Saturn, Sega CD, Game gear), that they simply didn't have the money to continue  to support the DC financially.  

[KDR_11k]

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Originally posted by: ExtremeGcube
I feel that the cost of a BMW is to high, and I wouldnt go out and buy one anyway so i might as well steal it. Its no loss of revenue for BMW because I wouldnt have bought one anyway.  The same argument pertains to games as well.

That is the propaganda sold by the RIAA. Downloading games is not like stealing a car, but building your own one with a copy of the blueprints. When you steal something there's a loss caused by the removal of the stolen object, which needs to be replaced. You can't tell me the RIAA has to make a new CD each time somebody downloads a song.

[ExtremeGcube]

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k

That is the propaganda sold by the RIAA. Downloading games is not like stealing a car, but building your own one with a copy of the blueprints. When you steal something there's a loss caused by the removal of the stolen object, which needs to be replaced. You can't tell me the RIAA has to make a new CD each time somebody downloads a song.

No but thats not really the issue, if you use the song, or software for that matter without giving money to those who created it is stealing.  Yes, downloading music doesnt take away someone elses abilty to use the song but it does take away money that would go back into the industry(again whethere or not the prices are high is not an issue because that is the standard of the industry).  

And it is perfectly normal for the RIAA to convert a single song download into a loss of money because in the past it would have been more difficult to get that one song without buyng the cd or a single. Therefore it is a loss of money, you dont have to pay for a song that you listen to.  It ties into my last post of single songs selling whole cds.  If you wouldnt buy the song then you didnt like it to listen to it.  I think that apples imusic is a great alternative to buying cds.  It works out to be the same price at $1.00 a song and you can do anything with the music once you download it.

[oohhboy]

Hey manunited4eva22 you missed my last sentence didn't you? Comes to think of it didn't Shiny make MDK? Well that sucked too.

[KDR_11k]

EC: Not buying a song might have more reasons than like and dislike. Financial limits are the most common problem. Nowadays music is less important to people than, say, video games. So if they had, say, USD40, what would they get, three albums with one or two good songs each (and maybe some food at McDonald's), or Viewtiful Joe? I don't know about you, but I bet most people here would buy VJ, not the CDs. Music is so low on my priority list without P2P I'd simply have zero CDs. Actually I have two, because I found bands via P2P I never heard of before.
iTunes already had a big impact on P2P downloads, simply because of the one-song-per-album problem and the prices per CD. Had the RIAA reacted sooner and turned Napster into a pay-per-song system, they'd have a lot less piracy to deal with today.

[ExtremeGcube]

It is more then just likes and dislikes, and I understand that money becomes a limitation when it comes to buying cds, but my only point is that it still doesnt make downloading those cds or games ethical, legal, or right.  If music wasnt on peoples list then they wouldnt download it anymore.  I think that once the imusic is available to PC users on a wider scale then those who download the music for free are cheap because the argument of not paying $16 for a single song becomes truely pointless.  There are other websites that charge per song as well but I was reading that there are quite a few artists that never agreed to have there music there in the first place and they were not recieving any of the money.  Imusic seems to be the best way for people to get music inexpesively while giving credit and funds to where credit and funds are due.  I know this post is focused on the music industry but its the most prevelant form of piracy and the ethical arguments can easily be applied to other media like games.

[honda_insightful]

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Originally posted by: ExtremeGcube
Yes, downloading music doesnt take away someone elses abilty to use the song but it does take away money that would go back into the industry

That statement is only true *if*you buy the songs.  Most of the songs on my hard drive are crap (think Britney Spears & other one-hit wonders) who I would not pay a single dime to own.  So the Music Industry loses nothing on those songs, because I will not buy them.  I refuse to pay for trash.

[cheers69]

ive seen games available to d/l on ftp's for last year

[ExtremeGcube]

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That statement is only true *if*you buy the songs.  Most of the songs on my hard drive are crap (think Britney Spears & other one-hit wonders) who I would not pay a single dime to own.  So the Music Industry loses nothing on those songs, because I will not buy them.  I refuse to pay for trash.

Then why have them on your computer at all?  If it weren't for piracy you wouldnt have those songs on your computer unless you had bought them.  There are othres that do want those songs and download them, they may have bought the CD and they didnt.  Even the money issue aside it is unethical, because you are using something without permission and without giving credit to where it should go, credit being money.  

This will make some upste, but I applaud the music industries attempt at curbing music piracy and for that matter any industries attempt at curbing piracy.  Even thought their attempts have been ill forged, people just act like the music industry is doing something horrendous for making people actually pay for music that they listen to. OH NO!! How dare they.

OK a conterfitter makes many copies and sells them.  Big problem.  There are still people that do not buy from counterfitters, they still make their own copies.  After all Im sure that anyone who wen through the trouble of modding a system in order to copy games will make their own. Either way money is not given to the developers of those games.  I dont undestand how one can differentiate between the two because they are both parts of a widespread problem that do damage.  

[KDR_11k]

> I dont undestand how one can differentiate between the two because they are both parts of a widespread problem that do damage.

Erm... A standard internet pirate gets the games for free and might share it with his friends.
A counterfeiter will make those copies to make money. Some sell them below price because it's obvious those are fake, however many will attempt to make the perfect copy and sell them for full price, making the customers think they bought an original. Have you ever looked at all the security mechanisms Microsoft puts on its products? Holographic labels, cerificates, etc? Those are there to prevent counterfeiting, not warezing.
Also, the legal difference is Copyright Infringement or Copyright Infringement and Fraud. That's quite a few years.

And remember: Never buy a GBA game off eBay, it's very likely counterfeit.

[honda_insightful]

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Originally posted by: ExtremeGcube

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That statement is only true *if*you buy the songs.  Most of the songs on my hard drive are crap (think Britney Spears & other one-hit wonders) who I would not pay a single dime to own.  So the Music Industry loses nothing on those songs...

Then why have them on your computer at all?  

I have my own private radio station.  But would I buy the songs?  Absolutely not.  I'd rather erase every last song, and just tune in the FM radio.  I will not hand over money for casual listening.

Now "the Eagles' Greatest Hits" that's a different story.  I'll buy the Eagles.  I won't buy Britney.

[Kyosho]

if it makes you pro-ethical people feel any better... Gamecube is not doomed because of this piracy thing.  The methods needed to play the games on the Gamecube are a pain in the butt and not worth it imo.  

as far as the RIAA is concerned.. i think where artists really make up their money is in their live performances.  I've personally only bought 1 CD the last year and it was cuz i saw that band performed live and they signed my CD.  If they want to encourage ppl to buy their CDs.. they should have more concerts and signings going on instead of basing their income on CDs alone.  

[KDR_11k]

They have almost zero income from CDs, to get enough money to feed their children they need to give concerts.

[eldiablo]

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Originally posted by: GaimeGuy
CD-keys?  There's key generators all over the damn place.  Some  "solution"  that is.

CD-keys is one of the best solutions, find a cd-key generator that generate CD-keys that work on Battle.net or makes you play Half-Life online, Dark Age of Camelot, NeoCron etc. Only downside is that you need to be able to connect to the internet or else you can just take your friends or generate a cd-key, it's not that hard however, I'm sure if you offer bonuses/online multi-player to the people that connect to the internet and verify their cd-keys.

Edit: I notice how many people say that credit is not given to creators of songs etc, but thats not piracys fault, in the music-buisness the labels are the real pirates. I refer to this link yet again http://www.cdbaby.net/articles/courtney_love.html  if you read it I'm sure you'll think twice before standing on the CD-labels side, cos they dont care about the artists.

[AERO]

Quote
Originally posted by: Yuji Miyamoto
Here's one last thing, since you THINK that you know the numbers so well.  Why don't you compare the number of X-Box systems sold to the amount of sofware sold per system?  That ratio is much lower than it is for the GameCube.  Why?  First, Nintendo makes better games, so people buy more, and second, because the X-Box has been totally cracked and no-one's buying games when they can easily download them just about anywhere.

Just want to clear up the misconception and clear up that whole attach ratio thing being lower. Thats BS.

BTW, by "toatally cracked" are you referring to the one method that doesn't reqiure a mod chip where they can hack in through an agent under fire game save? The one they havent really found out how to make anything you might expect to be working, like and xbox game for example, to run?

BTW, just want to mention that while you may know a few friends who don't own any games on and pirate them, that really isn't a good way to think an accurate representation of everyone else. Also next the sales numbers come in that proof that no games are selling, send them my way.