Topic: Nintendo Working Hard At Better 3rd Party Relationships

[Caterkiller]

These statements below along with Nintendo highlighting 3rd party efforts at E3 shows me they are really trying to make a change.

...it has been certainly pointed out that software developed inside Nintendo uses the hardware’s functions better than that developed by third parties.

On the other hand, we don’t think Nintendo alone is able to develop every type of software to satisfy all consumers. Therefore, we have been working to improve the development environment to let as many creators design games that take advantage of the features of a certain hardware as possible. One is to establish a trusting relationship with third-party developers and provide them with information on a new platform so that they can start creating games simultaneously with those in Nintendo. As we have been able to build such a relationship with more third parties than before, it was less frequently said for the Nintendo 3DS that the Nintendo games available at the launch of the new platform were more sophisticated than those of third parties. We are working to further improve the situation for the Wii U.

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/stock/meeting/120628qa/index.html

Edit: Why is it so hard to copy and paste and quote?

Also read the entire article, there are some interesting bits of info there.

[Caliban]

This is obviously the right choice for Nintendo, but I fear for Nintendo because of some 3rd parties that want everything done for them. An honest effort from both sides has to be put in.

[Pixelated Pixies]

This response makes me think that they've misunderstood the problem. Nintendo can try their hardest to build strong relationships with third parties, but the main obstacle to third parties developing games for Nintendo platforms is that Nintendo insists on making hardware or control inputs that are unique. Third parties will always favour the development of titles that can be released on the maximum number of systems, which has in the past put Nintendo at a disadvantage. With the Wii U's Gamepad and the fact that by 2014 we're likely to see another leap in graphical quality by Nintendo's competitors, I don't expect this situation to change any time soon.

[Ian Sane]

Nintendo has flapped their gums about improving third party support before and it hasn't amounted to squat.  I can't tell if they don't care and they're just bullshitting us or they fail to really grasp what the problem is and have no idea how to solve it.

Until the third party support actually IS good and healthy, I won't have any optimism on this front.

[Adrock]

How do you manage to turn something positive into something negative every single time? You should just give up doing things forever. I'm not just talking about Nintendo ether. I mean like things in general, all things that could be. You should just not go anywhere or try to experience things so you can't be disappointed in more ways.

[NWR_insanolord]

Ian's not wrong; Nintendo has said this before without actually living up to it, but based on everything I've seen and what third parties have said on the subject I really do think they managed to do it this time around.

[SixthAngel]

This response makes me think that they've misunderstood the problem. Nintendo can try their hardest to build strong relationships with third parties, but the main obstacle to third parties developing games for Nintendo platforms is that Nintendo insists on making hardware or control inputs that are unique. Third parties will always favour the development of titles that can be released on the maximum number of systems, which has in the past put Nintendo at a disadvantage. With the Wii U's Gamepad and the fact that by 2014 we're likely to see another leap in graphical quality by Nintendo's competitors, I don't expect this situation to change any time soon.

Third parties putting games everywhere is actually a fairly recent development, as in it started this gen.  In the ps2 era there were many, many third party exclusives, usually for the ps2.  They only began putting everything everywhere this gen when they realized how expensive everything was and that neither ps3 nor xbox had the market share to make exclusives worthwhile.

I also fail to see how the Wii U's game pad will prevent ports in any way, shape or form.  It has buttons exactly like a typical controller with an additional giant touchscreen.  There is no controller barrier to bringing third party games to the WiiU.

[Adrock]

Ian's not wrong

I don't think he's wrong per se. I just don't get why one would continue to engage in something one finds disappointing.

I'm not against cynicism. There are times when it's appropriate. I think he can stand to temper his vitriol in light of major strides Nintendo has made as of late. I'm not saying we break out the champagne and celebrate. I'm not even suggesting blind optimism. I disagree with the constant negativity.

[Caterkiller]

Did anyone read the whole thing? There were some interesting questions regarding the current Wii drought and the  non-price announcement as well. There are some somewhat tough questions in there, questions that angry fans might ask and he answers like a logical level headed fan would but with no spin.

[Chozo Ghost]

Long term 3rd party support on the Wii U depends entirely on how powerful the system is (something we still don't know to this day). If its on par with the PS420, or only slightly behind then everything will be fine, but if the Wii U is only on par with the PS360 or only slightly ahead then there's going to be some serious problems in the long run. Nintendo can hold the hands of third parties and be as nice to them as they can, but that can't make up for the hardware being obsolete which was the problem with the Wii and that's why the Wii had such terrible 3rd party support.

This isn't a PR problem that someone like Reggie can address. It has to be solved by the engineers who designed the hardware. All we can do is hope they've done a good job, because its too late to change it now. This die has already been cast.

[Pixelated Pixies]

Third parties putting games everywhere is actually a fairly recent development, as in it started this gen.  In the ps2 era there were many, many third party exclusives, usually for the ps2.  They only began putting everything everywhere this gen when they realized how expensive everything was and that neither ps3 nor xbox had the market share to make exclusives worthwhile.

I also fail to see how the Wii U's game pad will prevent ports in any way, shape or form.  It has buttons exactly like a typical controller with an additional giant touchscreen.  There is no controller barrier to bringing third party games to the WiiU.

I wasn't arguing that it was a problem last generation, I was saying it's been a problem this generation. When I say that it has put Nintendo at a disadvantage in the past I'm referring to the last 6 years.
 
I also didn't say that the Gamepad would 'prevent' ports. I do, however, expect that ports to Wii U will have to utilise the touch screen in some fashion and that means additional time and resources. Regardless, I was simply saying that the combination of having a relatively unusual controller and the fact that the Wii U is likely to be lapped in technological terms by it's competitors within a few years will set the console apart from it's competitors. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Nintendo have usually thrived when they have set themselves apart. I just don't think it makes for the best environment for third parties.
 
I fully expect to see more games like Assassins Creed and Arkham being ported to Wii U over the course of the next two years, so perhaps in the short-term the problem might disappear. I do wonder, however, where this support will go when Microsoft and Sony release new consoles.

[Ian Sane]

Ian's not wrong

I don't think he's wrong per se. I just don't get why one would continue to engage in something one finds disappointing.

I'm not against cynicism. There are times when it's appropriate. I think he can stand to temper his vitriol in light of major strides Nintendo has made as of late. I'm not saying we break out the champagne and celebrate. I'm not even suggesting blind optimism. I disagree with the constant negativity.

I talk about third party support a lot so I figured I would add my two cents.  I would certainly like it if Nintendo worked hard at better third party relationships but they've said this before, so I'm going to be skeptical.

[MagicCow64]

Ian's not wrong

I don't think he's wrong per se. I just don't get why one would continue to engage in something one finds disappointing.

I'm not against cynicism. There are times when it's appropriate. I think he can stand to temper his vitriol in light of major strides Nintendo has made as of late. I'm not saying we break out the champagne and celebrate. I'm not even suggesting blind optimism. I disagree with the constant negativity.

I talk about third party support a lot so I figured I would add my two cents.  I would certainly like it if Nintendo worked hard at better third party relationships but they've said this before, so I'm going to be skeptical.

I don't know if it matters how much fluffing Nintendo does for 3rd parties at this point. The way the studios have consolidated into several mega-publisher columns makes the business decisions more straightforward. Like, I don't think Nintendo could gladhand Capcom into another RE4/Viewtiful Joe quasi-exclusive support announcement, because even if Capcom was sanguine about the creative opportunity it wouldn't make sense to take the financial risk. Publishers currently have no issues developing for Nintendo when it comes to Just Dance and Skylanders type propositions that sell well.

So basically I think it's just going to come down to sales more than anything. If the 3rd party stuff sells well enough on the Wii U to justify the port expenditures, then we'll see fairly robust support. Probably not much in the way of exclusives outside of Ubisoft or Japanese-centric products like P-100.

The worst-case scenario, in which Nintendo is lapped by PS420, might not end up as bad as the Wii. I recall reading some years ago that Wii games looked much worse than they needed to on average because many developers had no experience working on the Gamecube, and just ended up using PS2 assets, whereas if they exploited the Wii to the fullest, they could be getting 4x better results. With the Wii U, however, most developers have copious experience working on the Xbox 360, so even if Nintendo gets leapfrogged there will be staff and assets on hand to make worthwhile software based on 360-ish benchmarks. Those games will look comparatively better than Wii games did to PS360 games.

[shingi_70]

Hoe much is nintendo willing to pay.

[the asylum]

Now watch as the Wii U gets heavily mutilated ports of Xbox1080/PS4 titles by underpaid interns and with no online (to speak of)

[Disco Stu]

It concerns me that they brag about third party support on the 3DS in that article when the support has been just awful.

[DonnyKD]

It concerns me that they brag about third party support on the 3DS in that article when the support has been just awful.

Third party support on 3DS. Awful.


*snicker* HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


You're hilarious, Disco Stu.

[NWR_insanolord]

Based on what I saw at E3 it's not that great. You have the three big third party games that come out this month, and then Castlevania, Epic Mickey, Harvest Moon and Kingdom Hearts, and I can't think of any others. So we're getting pretty awesome support from Square Enix, and not that much else. All those games look good, but there weren't that many of them.

[Pixelated Pixies]

I wouldn't go so far as to say that Third-Party support for 3DS has been awful, but it certainly hasn't been great. Particularly were you to look at western Third-Party companies, whose support has been lacklustre to say the least. There are of course noteworthy releases such as Rhythm Thief, RE: Revelations and Heroes of Ruin, but I'm not seeing the steady stream of Third-Party games that I would have hoped for a year in to the system's life. We are, however, going to be getting Power of Illusion, Kingdom Hearts (which I couldn't care less about), Miracle Mask and at some point hopefully a Monster Hunter release in the west. There are games to look forward to from Third Parties, but that doesn't stop me from wishing I had something to play right now. Maybe Reggie's right. Maybe I am insatiable.

[Kytim89]

I wouldn't go so far as to say that Third-Party support for 3DS has been awful, but it certainly hasn't been great. Particularly were you to look at western Third-Party companies, whose support has been lacklustre to say the least. There are of course noteworthy releases such as Rhythm Thief, RE: Revelations and Heroes of Ruin, but I'm not seeing the stready stream of Third-Party games that I would have hoped for a year in to the system's life. We are, however, going to be getting Power of Illusion, Kingdom Hearts (which I couldn't care less about), Miracle Mask and at some point hopefully a Monster Hunter release in the west. There are games to look forward to from Third Parties, but that doesn't stop me from wishing I had something to play right now. Maybe Reggie's right. Maybe I am insatiable.

You forgot Castlevania: Mirror of Fate.

[NWR_insanolord]

After posting that I went and looked at the release lineups for the rest of the year on other systems, and the 3DS lineup is better than most. It seems a lot of the big games on PS3 and 360 got pushed to Q1 2013, and the 360's basically getting Halo, CoD, Assaassin's Creed and that's pretty much it for Q4. Both the 3DS and Wii U look to end the year stronger than other systems.

[Louieturkey]

After posting that I went and looked at the release lineups for the rest of the year on other systems, and the 3DS lineup is better than most. It seems a lot of the big games on PS3 and 360 got pushed to Q1 2013, and the 360's basically getting Halo, CoD, Assaassin's Creed and that's pretty much it for Q4. Both the 3DS and Wii U look to end the year stronger than other systems.

Ooh, could this be a sign that games are getting pushed back to try and make Wii U versions that are released closer to the original release date of the PS360 versions?

Probably not.

[Uncle_Optimus]

I Agree that Nintendo has made strides in their 3rd party dealings. It sure has taken a while for their mentality to change from the 16 and 64-bit days but if, for example, you look at the 3ds you can see it enjoys fairly robust support from Japanese developers. Western developers are nother story, then again since when have Western publishers made a concerted effort to create quality portable content?


At the end of the day however Nintendo is the platform holder and it is up to them to create an attractive market for third parties. They did that with the Wii but as we now know almost ALL third parties had already made their bets on the HD consoles...the trickle of quality efforts meanwhile were not adequately rewarded financially. The Wii U, with its modern architecture and a ready online platform should draw the best third party support for a Nintendo console in 3 generations...but it is up to Nintendo to sell it into the market, and their efforts thus far at even establishing exactly what Wii U is have been a bit worrying.