Topic: Episode 242: One-Winged Migration

[Kytim89]

Isn't it true that if Nintendo were to include a Blu Ray drive without an HDD to install games onto then load times would increse? It appears to me that Nintendo being the keeper of efficiency that they are would be attracted to the ability to keep load times low when games are becoming biiger in terms of memory requirements.
 
Also, Nintendo would be smart to include an HDD into their console to appease third parties. The best way to appease third parties is to allow them to put as much of their DLC as possible onto a gamer's system. This has worked out well for both and Microsoft and has become a market trend, so Nintendo would be smart to adopt it as their standard in order to get more support from third parties.
 
The truth is that flash memory is still too cost prhibitive for the average gamer to use as a replacement hard drive. I agree with Nathan that a 32GB SD card is more expensive than a 320GB laptop hard drive. Nintendo would be smart to include support for all modern storage devices and let the consumer sort it out themselves.
 
If Nintendo want to be the market leader again with the Super Wii then they are going to have to adopt market trends. I can not stress this enough that things such as mass storage, adequate online and high definition graphics are no longer a luxery, but a mandatory features that when not given sufficient support can make or break a console. I respect Nintendo's business policies, but I may not buy thier next home console if I have to miss out on all the good DLC that is prolific on their competitor's systems.

Edit:

Wrong thread.

[Chocobo_Rider]

2. As for Conduit 2?

It sounds like HVS lost their nerve and it sounds like it's going to make me avoid purchasing C2 ... depending on how much respect they make me lose, I may return C1.  I loved that game, I played through it 5 times. I got my money's worth and I planned to enjoy it as part of a franchise.  If HVS wants to ruin that franchise, I don't need to hold on to it.

Is this serious? If so, wow. Should I return my Simpsons DVDs because I dislike recent seasons? And just because U2 haven't made any decent music in years, does that retroactively prevent War and The Joshua Tree from being good albums? I realise I'm being somewhat antagonistic towards users in this thread but I would love to know what the reasoning behind your mentality is here.

I suppose finally I would add that since Johnny wasn't exactly a fan of the first game (let's face it, everyone on the podcast has shat on it at some point) and your tastes seem to differ from his, does it not sound like the second game might be worth checking out at least? I hope you can at least be persuaded to retrieve your copy of The Conduit from the bin.

Hello, friend.  I welcome this discussion.

You make a good point and some decent analogies.  Believe me when I say that if I return C1 this would be the first time I'd done such a thing.

As for my reasoning, I really got the sense that, especially given the ENDING of the first game, HVS was trying to build a franchise with The Conduit.  Again, considering the cliff-hanger ending, it really makes C2 the second half of one whole work. (Or, the 2nd 3rd of an even larger work since apparently there is a cliff-hanger at the end of C2).

So, let's imagine that after the very enjoyable Batman Begins, Christopher Nolan made Christian Bale's character a wise-crackin', foul-mouthed, bad boy because critics found him too stoic in the original.

Wouldn't that sour the experience of the first film?

Remember, though I acknowledge I'm in the minority, I value plot among all else in games.  Even if it's a game that "shouldn't" have a plot like, say, Bubble Bobble - I still wanna know why those dinosaurs are blowin' bubbles!

So though C1 might still be a great "game" regardless of what happens in any sequels, if the plot/characters are retro-actively gutted? Then... that ruins the experience.... for me.

I'm not basing my opinion on Jonny's critique of the gameplay.  In fact, doesn't it sound like he enjoyed the gameplay?  But, if the new Michael Ford sees a female ally for the first time and remarks "you're a stone cold fox!" then that is not the franchise I fell in love with.

I was weary when I saw the cover art months ago.  I felt they had literally taken the human out of the character and turned the game into the typical HD dude-bro aesthetics.  Plus, the female ally is covered in body armor..... except for her cleavage.  Another classic dude-bro piece of ridiculousness that the first game was blissfully devoid of.

[Jonnyboy117]

Giant Bomb got around to doing a Quick Look for Conduit 2. While Ryan is horrible at the game, and neither of the guys know a damn thing about it to begin with, the video is funny and showcases a number of the problems I have with the game.


http://www.giantbomb.com/quick-look-conduit-2/17-4113/


Spoiler: They stop playing when the game hard locks! On the first level!

[Sundoulos]

I loved the The Hobbit for the Gamecube; even if you don't keep it, it's worth tracking down for the soundtrack alone.  The combat was okay, but the platforming and controls drove me crazy...lots of climbing up ropes, jumping to other ropes and on to platforms.  Back when it was released, Vivendi allowed people to download the soundtrack for free.  It's still pretty easy to find.
 
Has anyone ever noticed that cross-platform third party games on the Gamecube are harder to find and tend to be more expensive than the Playstation 2/Xbox counterparts e.g. Beyond Good & Evil, Prince of Persia?  I can only guess that's because fewer were printed.
 
Sadly, I parted ways with many of my old systems and games years ago.  When Igot married, all the clutter around the house was pretty unbearable...and I had to admit that I wasn't going to go back to play a lot of them.  Hearing about the VC on the Wii also served to push me over reselling edge.

[adadad]

Hello, friend.  I welcome this discussion.

You make a good point and some decent analogies.  Believe me when I say that if I return C1 this would be the first time I'd done such a thing.

As for my reasoning, I really got the sense that, especially given the ENDING of the first game, HVS was trying to build a franchise with The Conduit.  Again, considering the cliff-hanger ending, it really makes C2 the second half of one whole work. (Or, the 2nd 3rd of an even larger work since apparently there is a cliff-hanger at the end of C2).

So, let's imagine that after the very enjoyable Batman Begins, Christopher Nolan made Christian Bale's character a wise-crackin', foul-mouthed, bad boy because critics found him too stoic in the original.

Wouldn't that sour the experience of the first film?

Remember, though I acknowledge I'm in the minority, I value plot among all else in games.  Even if it's a game that "shouldn't" have a plot like, say, Bubble Bobble - I still wanna know why those dinosaurs are blowin' bubbles!

So though C1 might still be a great "game" regardless of what happens in any sequels, if the plot/characters are retro-actively gutted? Then... that ruins the experience.... for me.

I'm not basing my opinion on Jonny's critique of the gameplay.  In fact, doesn't it sound like he enjoyed the gameplay?  But, if the new Michael Ford sees a female ally for the first time and remarks "you're a stone cold fox!" then that is not the franchise I fell in love with.

I was weary when I saw the cover art months ago.  I felt they had literally taken the human out of the character and turned the game into the typical HD dude-bro aesthetics.  Plus, the female ally is covered in body armor..... except for her cleavage.  Another classic dude-bro piece of ridiculousness that the first game was blissfully devoid of.

Well I have to say I am surprised I managed to get away with the U2 analogy so easily. Anyway, I think I can see more where you're coming from now, fair enough. It is a bit strange that they would end the first game with a cliffhanger only to radically change the tone for the second one, and then have another cliffhanger for a potential third game...and, assuming a third gets made, what then? Keep the tone from the second game? Revert to the first game's serious tone? Maybe they ought to make the third like a film noir...avant-garde badass!

Can't imagine there are many people like you out there who value their plot in videogames - have you ever played the Sin and Punishment games? Either one of those ought to put anyone off videogame plots forever.

[Razorkid]

Excellent show as usual gentlemen.  I just want to know what was that podcast that John mentioned that he listens to that is basically a "best of" of older gaming podcasts? I wanna check it out.

[Sundoulos]

Excellent show as usual gentlemen.  I just want to know what was that podcast that John mentioned that he listens to that is basically a "best of" of older gaming podcasts? I wanna check it out.

I believe it's here:  http://thisyearcollection.blogspot.com/

I haven't listened to them, but I'm in awe of the amount of editing time that was probably required.

[Chocobo_Rider]

Well I have to say I am surprised I managed to get away with the U2 analogy so easily.

It's cool.  I make all kinds of obscure analogies in my posts ^_^

It is a bit strange that they would end the first game with a cliffhanger only to radically change the tone for the second one, and then have another cliffhanger for a potential third game...and, assuming a third gets made, what then? Keep the tone from the second game? Revert to the first game's serious tone?

PREEEEEEEEcisely!!

Can't imagine there are many people like you out there who value their plot in videogames ...

Sad but true.  I think a lot of people figure if you wanna care about plot it would be better to watch a movie, read a book, etc.  I think my tastes come from the fact that I thirst for interesting plots but most movies (both big budget and indie) tend to rub me the wrong way.  Reading of any kind makes me sleepy, so books are out.

Games it is!

... have you ever played the Sin and Punishment games? Either one of those ought to put anyone off videogame plots forever.

I haven't played either of them but I would really like to.  Keep in mind, I'm OK with a plot that is outlandish as long as it is consistent.  It might not be my favorite, but it can sometimes be fun.  The real problem with the C2 ridiculousness is that, as we determined, it betrays the original.  Also, it sounds like the ridiculousness from C2 is more like "I'm a big ol' d-bag out of nowhere" instead of "giant mutant chickens running around".  Big difference. =D

Good talkin' with ya!

[Ceric]

I like Plots in my Videogames.  I like to have some sort of motivation to do what I'm doing. I'm playing through FF:IV right now and I'm enjoying the plot in that game.  The pacing is fairly good and I can already identify some places where the developers went "you know we can have them grind this but, it be better for the story if we just did this instead."  Pacing and Predictability are the big things for me.  If I know how the rest of Game, Movie, Book turns out I'm not going to continue with it.  Their are a lot of series that I really don't like the gameplay but I'm as happy as a clam to read the dialogue, lore, etc about. (Metal Gear series comes to mind on that one.)

[lolmonade]

I like Plots in my Videogames.  I like to have some sort of motivation to do what I'm doing. I'm playing through FF:IV right now and I'm enjoying the plot in that game.  The pacing is fairly good and I can already identify some places where the developers went "you know we can have them grind this but, it be better for the story if we just did this instead."  Pacing and Predictability are the big things for me.  If I know how the rest of Game, Movie, Book turns out I'm not going to continue with it.  Their are a lot of series that I really don't like the gameplay but I'm as happy as a clam to read the dialogue, lore, etc about. (Metal Gear series comes to mind on that one.)

I think plots are critical to RPGs.  The story is at the core of what makes that genre, and I'd be willing to guess people are more forgiving towards mediocre battle systems than stories in RPGs, because a lot of the time the story of the RPG is what makes it memorable to a person.
 
Most other genres of games you can tolerate a bad story if the gameplay is spectacular.  I don't care about Ryu and Ken's rivalry if they both move as fluid as someone with epilepsy in front of a strobe light.  I don't care if Link can save Zelda from Ganon if he has to go through a string of quick-time events to beat him.  Great story in other genres can turn a great game into an amazing game, but a bad story in these genres doesn't hurt these games as much as RPGs.

[Ceric]

Fighters I honestly could care less about the story.  Original Zelda same way but, TP Yeah the story in that game was why I almost didn't complete it.  Same with WW.  It has everything to do with Pacing in the Zelda series.  The last 2 Console ones were not Paced well.  Sometimes you got to know when less is more.

[lolmonade]

Fighters I honestly could care less about the story.  Original Zelda same way but, TP Yeah the story in that game was why I almost didn't complete it.  Same with WW.  It has everything to do with Pacing in the Zelda series.  The last 2 Console ones were not Paced well.  Sometimes you got to know when less is more.

Ok, but is it the story pacing that is tedious, or the gameplay pacing that made you unmotivated to complete it?  For a game like Zelda (Twilight Princess, at least), I imagine they create concepts for dungeons/gameplay before story, and paint a thin layer of story on top of it, so i'd be inclined to blame gameplay before story in the example you give.

[Ceric]

Fighters I honestly could care less about the story.  Original Zelda same way but, TP Yeah the story in that game was why I almost didn't complete it.  Same with WW.  It has everything to do with Pacing in the Zelda series.  The last 2 Console ones were not Paced well.  Sometimes you got to know when less is more.

Ok, but is it the story pacing that is tedious, or the gameplay pacing that made you unmotivated to complete it?  For a game like Zelda (Twilight Princess, at least), I imagine they create concepts for dungeons/gameplay before story, and paint a thin layer of story on top of it, so i'd be inclined to blame gameplay before story in the example you give.

WW definetly gameplay because of that whole Sea Fetching....

I was actually somewhat invested in TP's story until I had they main bad guy trapped in the castle not bothering anyone at all.  At that point it was what is the point.  Why do I care?  I had effectively already saved Hyrule.  Never got a good answer.   The gameplay pacing could have been better in TP as well.  Their is a whole section of the world I didn't know existed till it was to late to be useful.

[Halbred]

I'm struggling to understand how James ran out of whale names for Infinite Space. Unless he was limiting himself to a single branch of the Cetacea, there should've been plenty to go around. James, were you using common names or genus names? Or species names? There are even more possibilities if you're using the full binomial. Then you can have, say, a whole sub-fleet of giant Balaenoptera ships.

[Crimm]

Character limit