Topic: The new PSN EULA is a pile of Poo!

[Chozo Ghost]

I wish the new EULA was just an April Fools joke, but unfortunately its real. Unlike most people, I actually took the time to read through the damned thing and what I read made me physically sick and appalled by what it contained. Basically, Sony says they have the right to take "unused" or "abandoned" funds out of your wallet. So if you add funds into the wallet and I guess if you don't use that up in a certain amount of time they feel they have the right to seize that from you. The EULA also said they have the right to take a "minimum" amount from your credit card if you make a transaction and there isn't enough money in your wallet, and it said this "minimum" amount CAN exceed the amount the item actually costs, so not only can they take your money without your authorization, but they also reserve the right to take more than what the item itself actually costs.

Another thing which really pissed me off was they said they have the "right" to install upgrades/updates without your consent or even notifying you about it, and that these unauthorized installations "may result in loss of data". Well, sure enough, after I agreed to that bullshit EULA (which is something I had to do, because I sure as hell don't want a $300 paperweight) I was busy playing Fallout 3 and as I was enjoying that all of the sudden the PS3 just shut itself off and restarted for no fucking apparent reason, and all the progress I made from my last fucking save was lost. I was so pissed off about that.

This Draconian bullshit is pissing me off and is making me regret the decision I made back in January to get a PS3. Had I known then that Sony was going to pull all this **** that they've been pulling these last few months I would have either bought a 360 instead or just tried to make due with my Wii (even though it is missing out on many 3rd party titles). I really hope the Wii 2 is going to have the sort of 3rd party support so that there isn't even a need to own a 2nd console. At least Nintendo doesn't **** consumers over like the assholes at $ony do.

Anyways, if you do own a PS3, I STRONGLY recommend you avoid using their PSN store thing if you can help it, and if you absolutely must then try to spend your points as soon as possible so Sony can't declare them "abandoned" and then steal them. I also suggest not giving them your credit card info, under any circumstances. Unfortunately, I don't think there's anything that can be done about them automatically rebooting your system in the middle of the game without warning or your consent, causing you to lose all your progress...

[BlackNMild2k1]

For those that want to read it:
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=33485.msg662685#msg662685

[KDR_11k]

To be fair you were playing a Bethesda game on a console, that kind of thing can happen even without firmware updates.

[Chozo Ghost]

To be fair you were playing a Bethesda game on a console, that kind of thing can happen even without firmware updates.

The game does freeze up a lot and I've gotten used to that, but this was different. The PS3 spontaneously rebooted itself, just as you would expect it to after a firmware update. It makes sense that there would be some sort of software upgrade/update to coincide with the new EULA. It would be interesting to know if other users had their PS3 reboot sometime after they accepted it.

[broodwars]

The EULA also said they have the right to take a "minimum" amount from your credit card if you make a transaction and there isn't enough money in your wallet, and it said this "minimum" amount CAN exceed the amount the item actually costs, so not only can they take your money without your authorization, but they also reserve the right to take more than what the item itself actually costs.

This is actually nothing new.  I got my PS3 back in March of 2009, and there's always been a $5.00 minimum purchase required on PSN.  If your purchase is less than $5.00 and you don't have $5.00 already in your wallet, the Store asks you if it's ok to put $5.00 in your wallet.  It's inconvenient, but I haven't often run into situations where that's been an issue since most DLC and games I purchase are at least $5.99 (PS1 classics).  And just to put things in perspective, Xbox Live does this as well when you try to purchase something and you don't have enough points.  The lowest number of points you can purchase is 400 points or $5.00.  On the Nintendo download service, when you don't have enough points to purchase an item I think the lowest number of points you can purchase is equivalent to $10.00.

Point is, this is nothing new and every download service does this.  The "money seizure" thing is new to me, but before we freak out about that how about we find out just how long an account has to remain un-used (which probably means you don't even log into PSN upon starting up your PS3) before it's considered "abandoned"?

As for your system reboot, I ran into that in Fallout 3 when I originally played it years ago.  Fallout 3 is a crappily-coded, shoddily-ported game that's prone to crashes.  After I agreed to the EULA last night I spent most of the night watching Blu-Rays and I got no such reboot.  Granted, I'm a Playstation Plus member, so if there was a firmware update it could have downloaded automatically during the night.  Still, I think that was your game, dude.

[Chozo Ghost]

Still, I think that was your game, dude.

Whether or not that was the case THIS time, the EULA does state they have the "right" to install upgrades/updates without your knowledge and it also said these installations CAN result in a loss of data. Now it may have only been a coincidence that a game bug caused the system to reboot itself (which is odd, because every other time the system just froze and locked up and I had to reboot it myself manually) not long after I agree to the new agreement thing, but whether that's the case or not the fact is the agreement says they can and will do this, so even if they hadn't done it this time they surely will at other points in the future.

We don't know exactly when the anvil is going to fall, but the EULA makes it perfectly clear that it is there looming over our heads.

[Morari]

Had I known then that Sony was going to pull all this **** that they've been pulling these last few months I would have either bought a 360 instead or just tried to make due with my Wii.

I feel for you. But really, you should have never expected to be treated fairly by Sony. Given their history on multiple fronts (not just the Playstation division), you could have made a reasonable determination that them fucking you over was pretty likely to happen in one way or another.

And just for fun: Get Fallout for the PC. Play it the way it was meant to be played (with user-created mods, ha)!

[nickmitch]

In the US, there's legal distinctions between lost, misplaced and abandoned property. I dunno if anyone could sue over it, but that's still messed up. You know your money is there. It's your money. You should use it when you need it.

[lolmonade]

In the US, there's legal distinctions between lost, misplaced and abandoned property. I dunno if anyone could sue over it, but that's still messed up. You know your money is there. It's your money. You should use it when you need it.

This is what I thought of when you wrote "It's your money.  You should use it when you need it".  Not sure if that's how you intended it.

[nickmitch]

It is.

[Chozo Ghost]

I feel for you. But really, you should have never expected to be treated fairly by Sony. Given their history on multiple fronts (not just the Playstation division), you could have made a reasonable determination that them fucking you over was pretty likely to happen in one way or another.

And just for fun: Get Fallout for the PC. Play it the way it was meant to be played (with user-created mods, ha)!

Seriously, there's no way you can really win this generation if you're a gamer. Every console has some serious problems associated with it. The Wii has the problem of outdated hardware and practically nonexistent third party support; the 360 has the problem of having to pay to play online and the red ring of death crap; and of course the PS3 has the problem of being owned by a bunch of assholes who are waging a war against their own consumers. So the problems vary but all three consoles have some serious flaws which means you just can't get a good system this generation and you have to decide which one is the lesser evil of the three.

Yes, there's also the PC option as well, but the problem there is I don't think my PC is powerful enough to handle Fallout 3. Even if it is or even if I upgraded it, a year from now new games would be out which would demand more power and it would be obsolete yet again. Keeping your PC up to date with the latest gaming demands is an expensive proposition. So that too has some serious drawbacks. However, I do agree it would have been nice to run game mods.

So this is a very frustrating time to be a gamer because every system sucks in different ways. I'm not saying any generation is perfect, but most of these problems weren't as big of a deal 10 years ago as they are today. It used to be you could play games and not have to sign a new updated EULA every other month. Back in those good old days you didn't have to worry about your funds being stolen or your console being remotely turned into a brick for suspected hacking. This is a set of problems completely new to this generation.

[BlackNMild2k1]

You don't have to upgrade a PC every year, especially not now when most PC games are made on the Consoles first and therefore aren't really pushing any decent graphics card all that hard.

1 good upgrade and you should be good for a few years before you have to start playing most newer games by scaling the effects back.

[Morari]

Yes, there's also the PC option as well, but the problem there is I don't think my PC is powerful enough to handle Fallout 3. Even if it is or even if I upgraded it, a year from now new games would be out which would demand more power and it would be obsolete yet again. Keeping your PC up to date with the latest gaming demands is an expensive proposition. So that too has some serious drawbacks. However, I do agree it would have been nice to run game mods.

You should really only have to upgrade minor components every three or fours years. Of course, you're going to end up with a completely new machine after a few or those upgrades. I'd say that the cycle is actually much more cost effective than buying and supporting your average gaming console nowadays. While the inherent cost of owning a media-centric PC has always been somewhat of a dramatized myth, it's almost a blatant lie anymore. Hardware simply isn't improved upon as fast as it was several years ago. Likewise, a lot of games are made with consoles in mind, so their minimum requirements are kept pretty low.

Mods trump anything console gaming could ever really offer.

[leroypantweather]

Surely Microsoft and Apple are just as dickish as Sony , so explain to me again how pc gaming is a more viable option for some one complaining about "draconian bullshit"...






note that running Steam games through linux based software like wine or some such **** doesnt count and is a non answer.

[Chozo Ghost]

I've never used Steam. Back in the days when I was heavily into PC Gaming Steam didn't even exist, and I got along just fine. Nowadays you don't own anything you buy, you just rent it. Now you have to agree to a bunch of legal **** before you can play a game which you legally bought and own and this legal **** tries to tell you that you don't own what you just paid for. Things have changed a lot in recent years, and not for the better (in my opinion).

[Morari]

Very few games are released exclusively through Steam. For the three or four Valve games that are, I'm willing to at least put up with the service. Otherwise, I have a binder full of commercially pressed DVDs and CDs from over the years. Sure, I always go out and immediately find a no CD/DVD cracks for the sake of convenience, but the discs are still there should I ever need them. I agree that the DRM has been getting pretty ridiculous, but it's still not as tight as what you'd find on a console (which is getting worse with every generation). You, as a user, can still take control at least.

[bustin98]

I just installed the original Red Faction on my Windows Vista machine.

They don't play nice together. So, having a binder full of games will get you so far.

I have not tried compatibilty mode, not sure if that will even help.

EDIT: Just read up on it, seems like its DX 9, not the OS.

[Morari]

I'd stay away from Vista in general. It's just barely a step up from ME.

That said, even my old DOS games will work nowadays with a bit of tinkering. You can't beat that level of backwards compatibility.

[NWR_insanolord]

The only games I own on Steam that I really care about all require Steam to function (basically just Valve's stuff and Civilization V).