Topic: Metroid Prime 2 Poll at Nintendo.com

[NotRimmer]

The poll says side-scrolling adventure, not 2D, funhats.  They could very much give the game a 3D feel while keeping it a side-scroller, much like the...er, 2 1/2D of something like Mischief Makers, which is something of which the GBA is most certainly not capable.  I think that would be VERY cool

[Bloodworth]

Dang! Mischief Makers was hot!  I gotta see if EB has a used copy the next time I go by.

[babaloulou]

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[Bloodworth]

Seriously, I wouldn't want to lose the first-person aspect - especially they did such an amazing job with that engine.  However, I would like to see more side-scrolling areas similar to the morph ball puzzles.  I think it would work pretty well too...you'd get to an area that's just too tight and narrow to see in first person and the camera zooms out while you work your way through caves similar to the classic games.

[Kulock]

I'd like to see the idea of Melee's Adventure Mode levels (not to mention Contra: Shattered Soldier. Kirby 64, and such) expanded into a 2.5D Samus adventure, but I admit I thought the first-person perspective was very well done in the first, so it'd be a shame to lose that... maybe make a spinoff title in 2.5D in conjunction with Metroid Prime 2... then again, that might be too much Metroid at one time, especially since the license tends not to fare nearly as well in Japan as it does in America.

[Shaktool]

Ever played Jet Force Gemini?  That shooter had some control issues, but if there is one thing that game did right, it was the camera.  It is entirely in third person, but there were two camera modes that you could switch between by pressing a button.  One is the typical Zelda/Mario camera, while the other is a behind the back view that is exactly like a first person view except you can see your character, who is semi-transparent.  

I played Jet Force Gemini long before I even knew what a Gamecube would be or what Metroid Prime would be like, but when playing that game, I said to myself and anyone who would listen, "This is what Metroid 64 should be like."  I really said that, and I still think that.  Sure, they could make the next game entirely in third or first person and make it good, but I think it could be better if they combine them.  

As you can probably tell, I did not vote for Side Scroller.  I wouldn't mind a sidescroller, but I would mind a JFG camera even less.  I guess, though, that I am dreaming.  

As for the GBA connection...Can someone explain to me why anyone would want that?

And for Multiplayer... I can see it working.  I have had huge arguments about it on another board, and I heard passionate voices on both sides of the issue, so I guess it would be safer just to leave out Multiplayer for now.  Of course, if Retro is confident that they can do it right (NO FRAGGING), then more power to them, but if not, then leave it alone.  

And the longer single player mode... Absolutely!  Of course, they should not focus only on making a long game.  They should make other improvements as well.  

[theasylumofthedamned]

Quote
Originally posted by: ZombieX


Also for all those oppose to multiplayer, if the sequel does include this option, just don't play it if it offends you so much.  Don't try to deny those who would appreciate multiplayer, the chance to enjoy it.  And by looking at that poll on Nintendo.com, it seems the majority of Metroid fans do want to experience multiplayer Metroid.

Multiplayer in MEtroid Prime 2, eh? Oh sure, I don't have to play it, but guess what? Single player Metroid > Multiplayer Metroid, no matter how you slice it. And guess what as well? Single Player + Miltiplayer = More compression. More compression = BAD. Very bad. Metroid Prime, though it was a totally kickass game, had large room for improvements, and stuffing in a Multiplayer would either A) take away possible improvemtns, B) Add more compression/loading times, or C) Make MP2 crash even more than Prime (Hard to believe, eh?).

Oh sure, you can have two discs for Single and Multiplayer, but a lot of hardocre MEtroid purists would rather shove a Zeta Metroid up their backsides than to have to shell out an extra 10 bucks for something they'll never play. I mean, only Pokemon games can get away with that money-grubbing....

[Djunknown]

Looks like we can go for days on this topic. Basically it boils down to this

A) "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
     Just tweak whatever shortcomings (were there any shortcomings in Prime? Escaped my radar...) or just give people more, plus some nice Nintendo Innovation.

B) "Sometimes a [bounty hunter] has to be moving on..."
     Instead of a sprinkle of innovation,   add a really healthy helping of ambition Go crazy with it. Pilot Samus's ship. Make it more RPGish. How about [gasp] cel shading? Those were highly exaggerated examples, so don't take them seriously(I doubt it'd be Metroid by then). You get the picture.

On a slightly unrelated note, would you mind if Samus got a voice actress?  If so, who'd fit the bill? If opposed, why so? I'm neutral, but thinking after Samus's scream, it makes you wonder....

[Sir Kero]

I said harder/longer, but less buggy or more faithful would have won out if they'd had those.
Joakim has it right, we need Kraid back. More then that thoguh I'd like to see the beta, gamma, etc. metroids again.

I had anumber of complaints with the first, but they were mostly cosmetic... The Zelda style "you found a secret" sound seems out of place in the series. The way the music changes in rooms with enemies, even before you see them, ruins some cool (potential) suprises.
It really irks me that they call the gimpy double jump item the spacejump. I mean, I understand that a true spacejump wouldn't work too well in a 3d game, even if it weren't first person, but it's almost like they're rubbing it in. On a similar note, they used the screw attack symbol for the suit upgrades, as if it weren't bad enough that this is the only Metroid game not to have the screw attack they had to go and remind us... twice.
I want real Super missles too. The charge combo is way too slow, and it acts like a big charge shot not a physical object. speaking of physical objects, wouldn't the missle tanks look cool made of glass? and big metal Energy tanks would be nice... I don't see why the items all have to be ephemeral energy stuff.
Finally, as much as I hate to say it, the different weapons got way too gimmicky, with almost every door requiring a specific attack, and those dang armored pirates. I still want my ice-wave-spazer or whatnot back.
As you can see (if you actually bothered to read that) those are all really minor complaints, but still they kept me from calling this a perfect conversion of the series into 3D. My biggest complaint of all against both Prime and Fusion though, would be that they don't even mention the series' creator.

If I could pick only one thing to change in the next game, I would want it to say "In memory of Gunpei Yokoi" when I start it up.
  What's the deal anyway, giving the man a lifetime achievement award when he's been dead half a decade? He hasn't done anything since then to earn it, the truth is he deserved that when he created the cross-pad, or when he invented handheld gaming, or light guns or any number of things... he earned it many times over but he never really got any recognition for it.
Ok, sorry for that rant. just a pet peeve I guess...

[theasylumofthedamned]

He won the Lifetime Acheivement award. Hint, Lifetime, hint.

[ruby_onix]

A: More GBA-GCN connectivity - I love free stuff. Did anybody not like it that Retro put the original Metroid into Metroid Prime? Did anybody not like being able to play with the Fusion Suit? Extras are a great thing, with a lot of room for innovation. I like it when extras are cleverly hidden, but not almost impossible to find. The GBA is a vital part of good bonus features, IMO. Anything that has to do with Nintendo, from Pokemon cards to the Super Scope, should be able to join in the fun. Tell me you don't want the secret option of using a Super Scope with Metroid Prime 2 after a company like Nyco quietly makes a "SuperCube" adaptor to use old SNES controllers with the GameBoy Player.


B: Return to side scrolling viewpoint - Heck no! Metroid exists in both worlds right now. A "return" to one is an abandonment of the other. Metroid Prime and Fusion were both great, and deserve to continue.

"The poll says side-scrolling adventure, not 2D, funhats. They could very much give the game a 3D feel while keeping it a side-scroller, much like the...er, 2 1/2D of something like Mischief Makers, which is something of which the GBA is most certainly not capable." - NotRimmer

The poll asked if Metroid Prime should return to side-scrolling. Not if the next Metroid Fusion should take advantage of the GameCube's might. I think there's a difference in there. I hope Nintendo does too, or we'll lose something important.


C: Multiplayer - Dangerous idea. Metroid Prime was (and is) already in danger of being "typecast" as a "first person shooter", and if Nintendo and Metroid can't break that image, I'm afraid that the entire first-person medium will be hopelessly typecast. Doing "the natural FPS thing" and adding a multiplayer mode just seems wrong. They have to find another way to innovate.


D: Longer, more challenging adventure - I'm not fond of using extra "challenge" to increase the gameplay. Some people thrive when it gets tough, but others just turn off the power, and end up with a game that's essentially just a fraction of the size. You can easily turn a solid 20-hour game into a great 50-hour game for some people, and a useless 5-hour game for others. That's not a good thing. It's a tradeoff. I guess the better thing to do is give you a difficulty level, but you have to give people a reason to play the hard mode that doesn't take away from the rewards for playing the easy mode. For people who are willing to play without extra rewards, and just have challenge for the sake of challenge, a hard mode is fine, but they should give you the option of the hard mode right from the start. Don't make people spoil the game for themselves by having to breeze through the easy mode first. Longer is good (I like "epic" stuff), but whenever you ask for it you usually get and extra helping of "challenge" too (I mean, just look at this poll question), so I'm leery of asking for it.


If you can't guess, I voted for more GBA/GCN connectivity.

[JoeFalco]

At the time I am typing this message, multiplayer is still at 1st place with longer, harder in 2nd, side-scrolling 3rd and connectivity in dead last.

I choose longer and harder.  Nothing like increasing the amount of skill and problem-solving required to beat a game to make you further believe that you earned your wins.  In the same way, I think mulitplayer is capable of that as well.  However, one member reminded me of the strain a FPS and multi would put on the game in terms of quality.  I have no objection to multiplayer because I relish the idea of someone always out there that can challenge you.  I say let's see what a sequel can do for Metroid before jumping on the idea of side-scrolling.  About connectivity, I can only wonder what ways the GBA can be used to enhance your gaming experience besides just as an item and enemy locater.  There must still be some unforseen potential that hasn't been unlocked yet.  I hope Retro and Nintendo will try and tap into it.  I would like to have longer and harder challenges, mulitplayer action and increased use of connectivity but to rank them in order of what I want the most, I place longer and harder at the top of my wish list with connectivity in 2nd and multiplayer as a distant third.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[Otacon305]

I think multiplayer could be one of the greatest things to happen to a sequel. Now just to clarify, I hate games like Halo and Nightfire and I loved Prime just as it was, but the engine format screams multiplayer. I say keep the lock on, just have it diminsih within/out of a certain distance. Start off with only power beams and have the starting missile capacity/jump boots/grapple beam/energy/suits be tweakable. Pick up new beams and power-ups around the arena, along with visors and different types of cloaking corresponding with different visors. Heat cloaking can only be exposed with the thermal visor and so on. Missile combos can be automatic when you pick up a new beam. Morph ball/morphball bomb can be automatic, and the powerbomb can be picked up. That would be badass in my opinion/

[Saint]

yes, i did and i LOVED it.  Jet Force Gemini had some of the best fighting styles ever.  The weaponry was beautiful and worked nicely.  The simple blaster was just fun by it self.  It had that jet pack feature later on for the dog and i think the 2 footed characters also, a great three separate players, 1 player game; even let you control your little assistant bot also. I think the only negative in a pool greatness was that DAMNED COLLECT-A-THON CITIZENS THING!  Look buddy, this is war and i'll do what i can, i've got aliens breathing down my back and you want me to give your friend's a piggyback ride?  People die, but your species will live.

 But seeing as this is supposed to be related to MP 2: Connectivity in WindWaker pissed me off.  It's not of "game/play" quality for a second player, yet not interesting enough to keep me on both the GBA and the GC controller....switching for nearly nothing pisses me off.  JFG actually had a nice little bit of 2 player with the robotic flying asistant turning on and being controllable just for fun/help, nothing specific or neccesary.  

 Multiplayer i have decided is the only/best answer.  You all fear a fragfest, but I don't.  If it is something like that, it is not possible for it to be crappy and boring like TimeSplitters2(don't get me wrong, I loved it untill I played Halo), Samus is a super warior, it would be combat truely advanced.  I wouldn't want the lock feature to go anywhere, it fits the game now because having a lock doesn't mean jack to winning.  You have double jumps and sidesteps because you have to attack enimies differently with different things in different forms.  The ultimate form of this would be Samus vs another real Samus.  Obviously there would have to be the ability to play as multiple Samuri(heh), quite possibly Samus/Samus Aran/SA-X/SamusNew? and a balance system of other characters similar to StarCraft, WarCraft and Diablo's 'Seperate but Equal' theorem.  I never got around to playing it but I saw a cheat to play as different characters in MP, has the groundwork already been laid?  If disc space is an issue, I'd love to see a multiple discs.  

 As for long/more challenging, they'll do that anyway, seeing as it is a sequel.  and the side scrolling tradition was BEAUTIFUL in Fusion.  and that fusion suit....sucked! I also believe the transition to dual analog is a MUST.  i NEED to be able to look and run.  RUN RUN RUN i should never have to stop moving to do anything; this is our super soldier's weak spot.  She stops to change visors and only trouble could come.  I hate stopping, there's no reason for it other than surveying the landscape.  I think that's about all i have to say, i hope i'm not alone.

[thecubedcanuck]

eight words

NO SCANNING NO SCANNING NO SCANNING NO SCANNING

[PIAC]

i think scanning is fun, but i guess shouldn't be a staple of the series

[Kulock]

Quote
Originally posted by: ruby_onix
D: Longer, more challenging adventure - I'm not fond of using extra "challenge" to increase the gameplay. Some people thrive when it gets tough, but others just turn off the power, and end up with a game that's essentially just a fraction of the size. You can easily turn a solid 20-hour game into a great 50-hour game for some people, and a useless 5-hour game for others.

There couldn't be truer words. Sometimes it's best to just side with an easier difficulty level to have more people be able to complete all of the parts and enjoy it. I wouldn't call Metroid Prime an easy game by any stretch of the imagination (we're not talking Contra: Shattered Soldier or Ikaruga either, but you get my point), and a lot of the "difficulty fixes" Nintendo of Europe put into their version of Metroid Prime just seemed... a little cheap. Mostly "enemies take more shots". Easy thing to program in, but that can really change and mess up the balance of some of the areas. With a game so much about exploration and grandiose environments like Metroid Prime, you don't want to be repeatedly stuck in one little rinky-dink area because you can only squeeze off 18 shots into a boss before you die and it requires 20. Granted, games shouldn't be cakewalks either, sometimes they go a little too far toward that "easy" side and make a game you could sleep through, but a balance should be found, rather than sticking five more Space Pirates into a room to make Samus repeatedly die there and artificially up the playtime.

[Otacon305]

What about my multiplayer ideas? Any comments?  

[sardonicus]

As a standalone game, I think that Metroid Prime is pretty cool.  But, as a metroid game, it is by far the worst in the series.  You lose so much when you take a game with all kinds of fast-paced vertical and horizontal platforming and turn it into a fps.  IMO, the coolest part of the metroid games (3 in particular) is the wild acrobatic moves you can pull off as Samus.  Wall jumps, speed boots, screw attack, that charged, multi-directional flying move.   Is it really worth losing all of these just to use the first-person perspective?

The so-called Space jump...please.  It's pathetic.  In all of the other metroid games, you can jump higher without any powerups...in water no less .  Double jumping is really cool - if you are playing Ghouls ang Ghosts, not metroid.  I also like how you can run either slow or slightly- less-slow with analog stick at full tilt.  Thank goodness for the "progress" that these new whiz-bang systems provide.

The morph-ball is extremely gimmicky in Prime.  Every time you need to use it, there is an obvious pipe of something similar to roll into.  No searching for a small weak point in a wall to find a required passageway as before.  No alternate paths to take in the tunnels, just straight through to the destination (ignoring the tacked on special morph ball rooms.  Just why would the space pirated construct these anyway? D'oh! :^) )

The areas to explore are mostly horizontal, with the token vertical room (90 % of the time an elevator) included.  The grapple beam is a shell of its former glorious self.  Remember how you could adjust the degree of swinging, and even flip 360 to increase speed or reach higher areas (maridia rocked)?  Now, it is just there to provide the semblance of a metroid game.  You can't even use it unless you are near the (un-necessary) grapple points.

Also, the hidden areas are non-existant, and the secret items are not difficult to find (Some huge crumbling, door sized patch on a wall, for insttance.)  In 3, when you got the map data, most of the areas you could explore were not displayed.  You had to explore every nook and cranny to find the entrances to these areas, and they were not silly unimportant passages (i.e. Kraid's corridor in 3.)  In Prime, everything is there, all laid out for you.

The sound track is mostly ok, but what's up with the crap, intrusive  techo.  So much for the cool, subtle/atmospheric/moody music from 3.  Hey N, how about doing an EA and use crappy flavor-of-the-month-band junk in your games, the kids will love that.  Samus can listen to Back Street Sync Town Dudes on her helmet radio.   In addition to half pipes, there can be places where you can grind on railings, and you can get bonus points for performing tricks.

Also, no more stupid scanning and silly little puzzles (again, conveinent for the pirates to place all of the morph-ball slots every where.)  Metroid is not a puzzle game series.  It is about platforming, exploration, and skill.  This is not zelda, do not homoginize all of your games into the same silly formula.

In short, Prime is a FPS with some quasi-metroid elements tacked on. If you're going to make it 3d, use a camera scheme like ED, where it is unique for each area.  Then, you can retain most if not all of the elements that made  the previous games so cool.  If retro can't pull it off, let Intelligent systems handle it.  They know a thing or two about making a great metroid game.

[Sonicjam]

I love metriod prime the game is so cool I al ready in the last boss it so hot hot I found all the item but can't remember how to get them agian o well  

[Otacon305]

Hopefully the next game will have some more interesting weapons. Like fly-by-wire missiles, cluster bombs, and perhaps some sort of acid spraying hose attachment.