Topic: E3 2009 Gathers Over 150 Participants

[Ian Sane]

Nintendo cares about core gamers, but core gamers will bitch no matter what.

This is just a canned response to deflect criticism from Nintendo.  The truth is in everything someone will always complain or have some criticism but that doesn't mean it's the same people every time.  It also doesn't mean that core gamers are impossible to please or that the criticism Nintendo gets is just unwarranted bitching.  If you take the attitude that fans are going to bitch no matter what then you're putting yourself in a fake sense of infallibility.  If Nintendo has that attitude that they're NEVER wrong and they NEVER make mistakes that's very close-minded.  That's the sort of attitude that cost Nintendo to top spot in the first place.  The Gamecube's lack of success can be attributed almost entirely to Nintendo having this "we're never wrong" attitude and completely failing to acknowledge the mistakes they made with the N64.

In anything with a fanbase what a good company knows how to do is recognize legitimate complaints from kneejerk emotional reactions.  "Wind Waker sucks because it's a cartoon" isn't very good criticism.  But "I found Wind Waker dull because the ocean was so empty and lacked enough variety" IS good criticism and can allow Nintendo to improve.  A company is NOTHING without it's customers so to assume that your most loyal customers just bitch for no reason is stupid.  You have to find out what they really want (which may not even be exactly what they say they want) and give it to them.  That's what really successful companies can do.

[KDR_11k]

Yeah but when the complaints are "Nintendo has sold out because they are no longer focussing on hardcore gamers" what are they supposed to do, tell the majority of their userbase "go away, we've got to please some internet whiners"?

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Clever wording, KDR, clever!

[NWR_pap64]

Yeah but when the complaints are "Nintendo has sold out because they are no longer focussing on hardcore gamers" what are they supposed to do, tell the majority of their userbase "go away, we've got to please some internet whiners"?

This is my new sig quote.

[Smash_Brother]

I think the reception of E3 2008 was so bad that it forced the officials to go into alert mode and decided to bring back everything.

I think the fact that the presentations by all three companies was so lackluster was what really did this.

Scantily-clad women standing outside booths aren't going to suddenly mean that we'll have more good games announced.

[NWR_pap64]

I think the reception of E3 2008 was so bad that it forced the officials to go into alert mode and decided to bring back everything.

I think the fact that the presentations by all three companies was so lackluster was what really did this.

Scantily-clad women standing outside booths aren't going to suddenly mean that we'll have more good games announced.

You would think that, but you would be surprised at how many blogs were complaining about no booth babes being present. It was a dire issue! [/sarcasm]

[Ian Sane]

Yeah but when the complaints are "Nintendo has sold out because they are no longer focussing on hardcore gamers" what are they supposed to do, tell the majority of their userbase "go away, we've got to please some internet whiners"?

You're just passing off any complaints as whining.  Nintendo can look at that as whining or they can view it as a part of the Wii userbase that they are not doing a good job to meet the needs of.  Nintendo wants to be an "everyone" company and that means that they need to meet the needs of all gamers.  Not literally every gamer but to have enough variety that any videogame demographic can find a good selection of titles that interest them.  This is what Sony used to be REALLY good at when they were on top.  Nintendo clearly WANTS core gamers to buy their product.  So if that market segment is losing interest due to a perceived indifference from Nintendo in meeting that segment's needs then it would be in Nintendo's best interest to address that.  And it doesn't mean forgetting about non-gamers completely.  Then they've just traded one market for another.  It means working to provide a true console for everyone where BOTH groups are satisfied.

I don't think Nintendo wants to lose core gamers.  I think they might take us for granted or feel that non-gamers are such a big market that they don't NEED us, if they lose that demographic.  But I don't think they specifically want to lose us.

[KDR_11k]

You specifically said you don't like how they're focussing on another audience despite that focus consisting of only a handful of games and some rhetoric. Look at what they're actually releasing. Excite Bots and Punch Out vs Wii Sports Resort? That's not even equal amounts of core and new audience, that's just plain weighted towards the fans. Their core games outnumber the new market games 2:1.

[Urkel]

Iwata, from today's Wii-no-ma announcement.

From that viewpoint, we at Nintendo have to reflect on domestic Wii software deployment in the former half of this year. Like what had been to be released in the former half of this year was postponed to the latter, we were not able to reach the original goal – to regularly make new proposals.

As for our deployment during the latter half of this year, I would like to announce on the other day as it is not today’s main topic. I would like to address that Nintendo recognize that we have been short of new proposals during the former half of this year, so far.

Iwata says right here that their games were delayed to the second half of the year. What comes out in the middle of the year?

MotionPlus.

Their games were delayed to incorporate MotionPlus. Like Malstrom has been saying since, forever.

I swear, half of this "Nintendo hates me they only make games for grandmas" talk would go away if people would actually listen to Malstrom and understood why Nintendo does what they do.

[Ian Sane]

You specifically said you don't like how they're focussing on another audience despite that focus consisting of only a handful of games and some rhetoric. Look at what they're actually releasing. Excite Bots and Punch Out vs Wii Sports Resort? That's not even equal amounts of core and new audience, that's just plain weighted towards the fans. Their core games outnumber the new market games 2:1.

I see the focus towards non-gamers as more lopsided.  You see two core games vs. one non-game.  I see two games handed off to North American third party developers vs. a product handled by EAD, Nintendo's TOP first party development team.  To me that suggests a considerably stronger focus on non-gamers as Nintendo has their top guys working on non-games while the core games are outsourced to teams that can be described as compitent but not particularly exceptional.  I don't buy Nintendo consoles to play Next Level or Monster games.  I buy a Nintendo console to play NINTENDO games.

It's not just this-many-games vs. that-many-games.  It's about what the real priority is.  Initially the Wii core games were all sequels.  Now they're outsourced to other devs.  I think we should get NEW IP core games from Nintendo's top inhouse teams.  I think that is a reasonable request and is not just needless bitching.  If Nintendo was busting out the same quantity and quality of stuff as before with the odd non-game thrown in then those complaints could be seen as bitching.  But the last time we got a core game from Nintendo themselves?  Mario Kart Wii almost exactly ONE YEAR AGO.  Everything else since then has been outsourced or a non-game or literally a port of a Cube game.  So you're going to have a really hard time convincing me that this is the same type of Nintendo output as before with the odd non-game thrown in.

This E3 will be the real indicator.  Will we see new IP core games from EAD, Retro or IS?  Hoping for new IPs is probably wishful thinking so let's see if we get at least one core game from each or at least one new IP core game from at least one of them.  Will there be an "it game" that every Wii owning core gamer is going to be talking about for the rest of the year?

[Luigi Dude]

Their core games outnumber the new market games 2:1.

Actually it's more like 5:1, which makes the argument that Nintendo has abandoned core gamers even more ridiculous then it already it.  The amount of games that have been released and the ones we know are about to be released by Nintendo since the Wii's launch is around 40 by now.  And out of those 40, only 6 can really be considered aimed at the new market.

Not to mention out of these 6 games, 5 of them were made by the same studio, EAD 2.  Which really makes people's complaints about Nintendo abandoning their core games completely pathetic when only 1 out of the over 20 different development studio's they have right now is responsible for the majority of their new casual market games. 

I see two games handed off to North American third party developers vs. a product handled by EAD, Nintendo's TOP first party development team.

Ian, there's five, I repeat FIVE different EAD studio's.  Wii Sports Resort is being done by EAD 2, the same studio that did Wii Sports, Wii Play, Wii Fit and Wii Music.  EAD1 released Mario Kart Wii last year so they aren't going to have anything new for awhile.  EAD 3 is the largest of the EAD teams and is responsible for the Zelda series and the majority of it is working on the new Zelda for the Wii.  No one knows what EAD 4 is doing, but the last game they released was Band Bros Deluxe for the DS last summer.  Finally we have Tokyo EAD who's last game was Mario Galaxy and before that Donky Kong: Jungle Beat.  I think we all know what Tokyo EAD is probably working on.

So once again, only one small part of Nintendo is responsible for the non games, when the rest is making nothing but core games.

[TJ Spyke]

You specifically said you don't like how they're focussing on another audience despite that focus consisting of only a handful of games and some rhetoric. Look at what they're actually releasing. Excite Bots and Punch Out vs Wii Sports Resort? That's not even equal amounts of core and new audience, that's just plain weighted towards the fans. Their core games outnumber the new market games 2:1.

I see the focus towards non-gamers as more lopsided.  You see two core games vs. one non-game.  I see two games handed off to North American third party developers vs. a product handled by EAD, Nintendo's TOP first party development team.  To me that suggests a considerably stronger focus on non-gamers as Nintendo has their top guys working on non-games while the core games are outsourced to teams that can be described as compitent but not particularly exceptional.  I don't buy Nintendo consoles to play Next Level or Monster games.  I buy a Nintendo console to play NINTENDO games.

It's not just this-many-games vs. that-many-games.  It's about what the real priority is.  Initially the Wii core games were all sequels.  Now they're outsourced to other devs.  I think we should get NEW IP core games from Nintendo's top inhouse teams.  I think that is a reasonable request and is not just needless bitching.  If Nintendo was busting out the same quantity and quality of stuff as before with the odd non-game thrown in then those complaints could be seen as bitching.  But the last time we got a core game from Nintendo themselves?  Mario Kart Wii almost exactly ONE YEAR AGO.  Everything else since then has been outsourced or a non-game or literally a port of a Cube game.  So you're going to have a really hard time convincing me that this is the same type of Nintendo output as before with the odd non-game thrown in.

This E3 will be the real indicator.  Will we see new IP core games from EAD, Retro or IS?  Hoping for new IPs is probably wishful thinking so let's see if we get at least one core game from each or at least one new IP core game from at least one of them.  Will there be an "it game" that every Wii owning core gamer is going to be talking about for the rest of the year?

Nintendo letting outside developers work on games for them is a good thing, and it helps them release more games. As for playing Nintendo games on Nintendo consoles, do you have problems with the Kirby series? HAL Laboratory is technically a third party studio (Nintendo doesn't own them), and they make most of the Kirby games and made Super Smash Bros. Melee.

I think all this core game vs. casual game thing is nonsense. I have had just as much fun with Animal Crossing: City Folk as I have had with most "core" games.

Hell, even if you don't like Nintendo's recent offerings (which I can't imagine why you wouldn't like it), 2009 alone has had a ton of great third party Wii games so far.

[UncleBob]

[NWR_pap64]

Hilarious!

The only reason gamers are making a big deal over the casual games even if there are few of them is because they sell millions, have long lasting appeal and have better acceptance than some core games. They see Wii Fit outselling Zelda and they panic, even though they fail to realize that exercise has more mainstream appeal than a fantasy adventure and its easier to get into.

[Peachylala]

Unclebob's comic is win.

Nintendo letting outside developers work on games for them is a good thing, and it helps them release more games. As for playing Nintendo games on Nintendo consoles, do you have problems with the Kirby series? HAL Laboratory is technically a third party studio (Nintendo doesn't own them), and they make most of the Kirby games and made Super Smash Bros. Melee.

No, HAL Labs is a 2nd party. They were third before they started making Kirby games. Nintendo does own part of them. Unless they suddenly became third party, which hasn't even been announced.

And isn't EAD 4 the same team that is behind the Metroid games and Wario Ware? I remember reading somewhere they were originally R&D1.

[UncleBob]

For those who don't remember/haven't been around long enough... I made that comic back in 2005.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I think this E3 will be big for Nintendo. Then again I think it will be big for most companies because most have been holding out on games that are coming out this holiday season.

[NWR_pap64]

For those who don't remember/haven't been around long enough... I made that comic back in 2005.

And yet its timeless...

I too hope that E3 is big for all companies. With E3 being a show once more it likely creates the need to try and outdo each other, so they might do big reveals and show important software.

[Luigi Dude]

And isn't EAD 4 the same team that is behind the Metroid games and Wario Ware? I remember reading somewhere they were originally R&D1.

That would be SPD1 who used to be R&D1 and has done the Wario Ware as well as 2d Metroid titles and recent Rhythm Tengoku/Rhythm Heaven.

EAD 4 is the people who did all the Mario Advanced ports on the GBA and then went on to do Mario 64 DS and New Super Mario Bros.  They're also responsible for both of the Big Brain Academy games as well as both of the Band Bros for the DS.