Topic: Metroid Prime 3: Final sales and sales comparisons

[Chozo Ghost]

The problems with the Metroid franchise these days probably stem from the absence of its creator, Gunpei Yokoi. The man was a genius in many areas, and was responsible for much of Nintendo's success. I don't know who is handling the franchise these days, but they aren't doing as good of a job (in my opinion).

[Mario]

Can someone tell me how NINTENDO -ever- compared Metroid to Halo or FPSs. Doesn't anyone remember the massive live action Prime advertisement set in space that heavily emphasised the solo exploration aspect of the game?

[Kairon]

I don't consider the Metroid franchise "lost," though I certainly can't deny that it has evolved into a different form in the Prime series. Nintendo's intention with bringing it into First Person was NOT to turn it into an FPS, but instead to give it a more natural sense of exploration. They'd already learned that when people wanted to look at environments in previous Nintendo games, they'd gone straight into Mario 64's or Zelda: OoT's first person mode. Nintendo, or probably Miyamoto, believe that therefore first-person was the best viewpoint to convey Metroid's sense of exploration. It also didn't hurt to have that "behind the visor experience."

In fact, Miyamoto didn't believe that third person shooters could work, so it's no wonder that Nintendo took Retro's third-person shooter project and completely retooled it according to their ideas.

[oohhboy]

Nintendo never did compare or sell MP as a Halo killer. It was from the net that the idea spawned from. That so called need for a Halo killer was redundant. Games better than Halo appeared years ago and continued to appear during that generation. Unfortunately they were all on PC.

If nothing else, MP help branch out and expand what a FPS shooter could be. It had been a long time since anything as immersive as Deus Ex or System Shock had came out. Neither games were "Vanilla" FPS. MP went further by breaking out of the weapon staples of melee, pistols, shotgun, automatic, explosives, "Exotic". But there is no mistaking it, MP is a FPS, it's not traditional, it moves away from the standard so far it almost forms it's own genre.

If Gunpei Yokoi was still alive, I would imagine Metroid would have made the leap to 3D at the same time as Mario64, but considering that 3D was new back then, Metroid might have define, at least initially what a console FPS is if they made it an FPS. However it would have more likely would have been a 3rd person affair.

The question I ask of Ghost is, what are the "Roots" of Metroid? If it is 2D for you, then you should already be satisfied with the handheld offerings. The exploration, the energy tanks? The shoot to open doors? The different guns? Most of the staple 2D elements from Super Metroid are found within MP and are expanded for 3D. Some were removed due to gameplay/control limitations, but where was the outcry from the disappearance of the fire flower from Mario 64?

Because MP was released one generation late, it will continued to be mislabeled and poorly looked upon critically. Was MP even possible back then when a FPS wasn't done right on a console until GoldenEye and for the Playstation, MOH. If a 3rd person Metroid was released, what would have stopped it from becoming Castlevania 64? Maybe they knew they couldn't get it to work to the level they expected of themselves. Basic R&D weren't ready or had not been done, things like the lock on function in LOZOT. The so called dream team was only so big.

I hope a lot of these background questions would be answered one day, not just for this game, but many others.

[Kenology]

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix

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Originally posted by: Kenology

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix

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Originally posted by: Kenology
Well, to be fair, MP3 is selling much better in its 18th week than MP2 was.  With those legs, it'll certainly crawl its way past MP2's U.S. LTD - though it'll definitely take a while.  

MP3 will pass MP2's worldwide total soon as well.

Anyways, what a missed opportunity for Nintendo... and shame on them for not putting the appropriate and substantial marketing muscle behind the game.  It would've done much, much better otherwise.

::sigh:: I think you guys are dreaming that think it would have done better with more marketing. Bioshock had tons of marketing and it has not translated into vastly more sales. Metroid Prime is a relatively niche series that is not for the mainstream crowd, and I think we need to admit that. All the marketing in the world is not going to change the 3rd iteration of a series everyone knows what to expect from.[/Q
Bioshock is an original IP though and I think you're severly underestimating Metroid's fanbase and general appeal.  I disagree that Metroid is a niche title.  When Metroid Prime and Metroid Fusion sell over a million units and the substantially less marketed Metroid Prime 2 sells over 800,000 copies, the "niche title" arguement goes down the drain (unless you're talkin' about the series in Japan).

Now, Zack and Wiki, that's a niche title.

Metroid Prime 2 was hyped as a Halo killer. Let's face it after the 3rd iteration of a series your fan base is not going to grow unless you radically change the formula. You are dreaming if you seriously think Metroid Prime 3 could have sold better on a system that is more casual oriented in a market that loves run n gun shooters. Metroid Prime 3 had nothing to sell it to the mainstream crowd, and the Nintendo fanbase you are referring to BOUGHT it regardless of marketing, so who would you be advertising it to? Beyond what Nintendo did try to do (Market it as a Wii Play, family game) there is really nothing. Nintendo could have poured millions into the game advertising it and guess what? If I am right, which I believe the numbers show and history shows, Nintendo would have made far less profit off it, maybe putting the series in jeopardy.

So is Metroid Prime or the Metroid series a niche series? Perhaps not on a Zack and Wiki level, but it still is a franchise that isn't going to grow any new fans until it changes to meet the new market. As it stands the series is mainly for a large, but stagnant hardcore Metroid fanbase (as shown by the similar sales numbers in MP2 compared to MP3).  Heck a great comparison would be the latest Ratchet and Clank game, Sony at least understands that your aren't going to grow your fanbase for a sequel even with marketing. If people didn't like the R&C games before they aren't going to be suddenly persuaded to buy the next one unless it really shook up the formula. Heck even Halo 3 for all its advertising still has yet to beat Halo 2.

MP2 was never hyped up to be a Halo killer by Nintendo.  The media did that... as MP2 was GC's big game and Halo 2 was Xbox's big game for that holiday season (and they both in 1st person).

And dude, you really need to tone yourself down a few notches.  Your opinion is just that, your opinion.  Just because I disagree with you, doesn't mean I'm "dreaming" or what have you.  

Anyways, I believe the mainstream crowd would've definitely checked out MP3 had they actually known about it (i.e. marketing), soccer mom airport commercial notwithstanding.  The people that put MP3 in the top 10 its first month are the diehard Metroid fans.  And again, I know that Nintendo tried to market MP3, but as I said above, it just wasn't at all appropriate or substantial.  In his 'Top Five Hits & Misses of Wii's First Year' editorial on the main page, Jonathan Metts, listed his first miss as being a lack of hardcore marketing.  I agree with him wholeheartedly.  And in conclusion, you and I can just agree to disagree.

[matt oz]

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Originally posted by: oohhboy
If Gunpei Yokoi was still alive, I would imagine Metroid would have made the leap to 3D at the same time as Mario64, but considering that 3D was new back then, Metroid might have define, at least initially what a console FPS is if they made it an FPS. However it would have more likely would have been a 3rd person affair.

I think if Metroid had made the jump to 3D during the 64 era, it would have been like the 3D Castlevania games: third-person, with a moderate amount of exploration and various weapons and upgrades to be found around the game world.  The two games have very similar gameplay features, hence the term 'Metroidvania' to describe the style of play, so I think Nintendo would've gone into the same area that Konami did.  (I should say that I've never played Castlevania 64, but I have played one of the PS2 Castlevanias and actually enjoyed it.)

I wonder, though, what the franchise would be like now if that had been the initial 3D direction.  Would the series even be around now?

[Kenology]

Konami copied the Metroid pallete for all of it's Metrovanias... so if Nintendo makes a 3D Metroid game that's "similar" to a Castlevania, it's really only being similar to itself.

I just want a 2.5D Metroid on Wii or DS (preferrably Wii).  I'd be very happy then.

[Luigi Dude]

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Originally posted by: oohhboy

If Gunpei Yokoi was still alive, I would imagine Metroid would have made the leap to 3D at the same time as Mario64, but considering that 3D was new back then, Metroid might have define, at least initially what a console FPS is if they made it an FPS. However it would have more likely would have been a 3rd person affair.

Actually if Gunpei Yokoi was alive there still wouldn't have been a Metroid for the N64.  Gunpei Yokoi left Nintendo a year before he died after the Virtual Boy failed.  Even if he was alive it wouldn't have made a different since he was no longer with Nintendo.

Not to mention Gunpei Yokoi was only a co-creator of the Metroid series.  The man who really deserves most of the credit for the Metroid series is Yoshio Sakamoto.  Sakamoto was the director of the original and Super Metroid and is the guy who put the most work into making the series what it is today.  I'm tired of people never giving him credit when he's the one who really deserves it.  Yes Yokoi deserves credit for helping out, but Sakamoto is the guy who should be truly credited as the series creator.

[Caliban]

Thank you Yoshi Sakamoto for such a wonderful series.

Today one of my coworkers said that he was dissapointed that Samus was a female...I look at him and think to myself "the end is nigh indeed".

[Kairon]

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Originally posted by: Caliban
Today one of my coworkers said that he was dissapointed that Samus was a female...I look at him and think to myself "the end is nigh indeed".

That's...that's barbaric.

[Chozo Ghost]

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Originally posted by: Caliban
Thank you Yoshi Sakamoto for such a wonderful series.

Today one of my coworkers said that he was dissapointed that Samus was a female...I look at him and think to myself "the end is nigh indeed".

That's sexist and very sad. What difference does it make what her gender is?

[mantidor]

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Originally posted by: Mario
Can someone tell me how NINTENDO -ever- compared Metroid to Halo or FPSs. Doesn't anyone remember the massive live action Prime advertisement set in space that heavily emphasised the solo exploration aspect of the game?

Nintendo did a whole parody of the IloveBees things with several sites saying "never send a man to do a woman's job", terrible viral campaign for echoes. MP3 first minutes wasn't less subtle about a halo comparison.


It's ok though, at the end the games are far from the generic content of the halo franchise and if the only reason the first prime did well was because of retarded confused people so be it. The first person perspective fitted perfectly and Nintendo gave us three awesome games. Who cares if the stupid gaming industry expects every fps to be another doom clone with shinier graphics, at least there are enough of us who can appreciate originality and excellent design, the numbers are in no way bad for this type of game. Lets just hope the next metroid game, no matter how many dimensions has, doesn't take another ten damn years to appear.

 

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

^ The Light of Aether finally shines thru.

If you don't know what Aether is, get out of this thread.

[Caliban]

"The first person perspective fitted perfectly and Nintendo gave us three awesome games. Who cares if the stupid gaming industry expects every fps to be another doom clone with shinier graphics, at least there are enough of us who can appreciate originality and excellent design, the numbers are in no way bad for this type of game. Lets just hope the next metroid game, no matter how many dimensions has, doesn't take another ten damn years to appear."

Well said, mantidor, well said.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

I see no Halol clone here, only ASS KICKING made possible by Wii

First time I played through the game, it was on Veteran, and never realized Hypermode could be exploited.  Either I completely drained the Hyper Bar in a couple seconds or I shut it off early to save some health; and I played thru the whole game like that.

Only months later I found out about the exploit, and thought "man, this is cheap, almost like that non-challenge people call Twilight Princess."  I've come to realize the game is more enjoyable without Hypermode.  So unlike Twilight Princess, the challening parts can still be challenging on subsequent play-thrus.  So there.

[Shecky]

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Originally posted by: Professional 666
First time I played through the game, it was on Veteran, and never realized Hypermode could be exploited.  Either I completely drained the Hyper Bar in a couple seconds or I shut it off early to save some health; and I played thru the whole game like that.

I found out after I had beat the game as well, although I wouldn't really call it an exploit.  You have 24 seconds before the suit vents.  I always figured the bar turning red cut that time short and would immediately do what the game says (discharge immediately - usually at a target), but turns out it doesn't and you can sort of manage the red bar until you hit that 24 second mark.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Oh, it's an exploit, alright (or a poor design decision).  Without using Hypermode at all, the Rundas fight is about 5 minutes of A-tapping bliss on Veteran (as shown in the link).  When Hypermode is utilized to its full extent, the fight lasts around 1 minute, with considerably less button-taps-per-second.  More like "huh? this was supposed to be a boss fight?"

[Kairon]

I think it's an intentional design choice. In Retro interviews, they willingly talk about it and I think they even mentioned it as a tool they expected speed-runners to take advantage of.

[Shecky]

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Originally posted by: Professional 666
Oh, it's an exploit, alright (or a poor design decision).  Without using Hypermode at all, the Rundas fight is about 5 minutes of A-tapping bliss on Veteran (as shown in the link).  When Hypermode is utilized to its full extent, the fight lasts around 1 minute, with considerably less button-taps-per-second.  More like "huh? this was supposed to be a boss fight?"

Heh, I kinda wish that boss fight took me a little less time... not 1 minute, but it took me more than 5 (IT TOOK FOREVER)