Topic: More Virtual Console Details

[Ian Sane]

"controller layout will be determined on a game-by-game basis and controller layouts will be detailed in the included electronic manual."

This is just, well, dumb.  Why not just make it so that the player can map the buttons however they wish?  Like it's not even part of the game itself.  I should be able to just go into the VC options and set it so that the A button for NES games is whatever I want.

Somehow we can figure this incredibly obvious stuff out and Nintendo can't.  So far Nintendo's approach to the VC seems to be like a demonstration on how to make the feature unappealing.  The sheer strength of the games available and the benefits of the general barebones concept seems to be all that's carrying it.  Take the same feature and apply it to a weaker selection of games and it would look really bad.

Normally I prefer the idea of having accurate versions but there are always exceptions.  Frame rates should be fixed (or have an extra option to turn slowdown on or off), high scores should always save, and in the case of arcade-to-home conversions any limitations added by transfering to weaker hardware should be restored (missing level added back to Donkey Kong; multiplayer support for Final Fight).  The ideal thing should be to provide the BEST version of the game, looking at the various versions that were released at the time.  In some cases that's straight emulation, sometimes it's a combination of features from different versions, and in some cases it might just be having multiple versions available.  Slam Masters, for example, should have the Team Battle Royale from the Arcade and SNES version and also the Death Match from the Genesis one (which has no Team Battle Royale).  Something like Bionic Commando, where the arcade and NES versions are totally different, should have both versions available.

The VC seems like a feature that would be easy to pull off for someone who has a real passion about videogames from Pong until today.  I'm wondering if Nintendo is letting some of their less experienced staff work on it while the big guns work on Wii games.  This has too much of that "wrong button mapping in Mega Man Anniversary Collection" feel to it.

[MechaG2]

The lack of Rumble Pack support for N64 games is upsetting, but I'm personally not that concerened about it. Don't get wrong it would be great if it was included and they really shoud've implemented the functionality, but it's really not such a big loss. That being said, I'm curious as to how items in games that required rumble functionality to work like The Stone of Agony in TLoZoT is going to be of any use now.

As for upgrades for the classics, this news is a little baffling as Nintendo had stated about a few months ago (and a few times, actually) that there was a good possibility of them releasing upgraded versions of some of the classics including audio, visual and gameplay enhancements. Concerning N64 games, they had stated that they would only be smoothing out the framerates and that adding on-line functionality for N64 games is possible, but logistically it isn't practical so they wouldn't be doing it at least in the immediate future. Duck Hunt has been confirmed to be included in the VC and would require some sort of modification or enhancement for gameplay to get it to work for either the classic controller or remote. So either way it will have to be modified.

Having only about 48 channels available with each downloadable VC game relegated to one whole channel at first does seem impractical and even stupid. But you have to remember that the channels interface is modular and upgradeable. I guarantee Nintendo will allow the proper upgrades and modifications as the need arises. There are only going to be about 30 VC games available by the first of the year after all.

[Smoke39]

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Originally posted by: MechaG2
Duck Hunt has been confirmed to be included in the VC and would require some sort of modification or enhancement for gameplay to get it to work for either the classic controller or remote. So either way it will have to be modified.

They wouldn't have to modify the game to do that.  They just need to change the way the data the old zapper would stick in memory for the game to access to determine where the gun was pointed is generated.

[Djunknown]

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Anyone who really thought Nintendo was going to add online multiplayer was dreaming. It's a huge technical undertaking.

This is entering a gray area, but emulators have on-line multiplayer for years now, working without too much difficulty. Though the N64 would be tricky, but can be remedied as explained earlier. I plead the 5th after that statement, but if a bunch of programmers with nothing but spare time can do this, why not programmers who have access to NOA/NCL's archive of top secret stuff?

[Pale]

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Originally posted by: VGrevolution

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Originally posted by: MegaByte

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Originally posted by: Pale
Anyone who really thought Nintendo was going to add online multiplayer was dreaming.  It's a huge technical undertaking... I mean, look how well Control on Live Arcade worked out.

It's tricky, but not a huge undertaking.  It's been done properly before with XBand, and more recently with Fuzziqer's GameCube Control Sim.  Selecting the memory addresses necessary to sync games (and not just control inputs like a lot of emulators and XBLA do) has to be done on a case by case basis, but it's totally within the realm of possibility.

Well I haven't tried it but I heard that Contra for Xbox Arcade has a terrible online mode, so it can't be that easy to do!

Heh, I totally meant to type "Contra" up there instead of control... i look silly.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Lol Pale, I thought you were talking about some Xbox Live game I couldn't remember :-P

[Smash_Brother]

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Originally posted by: VGrevolution I am concerned as well about the light gun games, but there may be a solution. From what I understand you could theoretically program the sensor to act like a light gun by telling it when you are pointing at the TV by calibrating it (I think you can do it with Zelda), or even where on the TV you are pointing (Maybe by using the cursor and clicking when you are on certain spots of your TV). I dunno though, I may be absolutely wrong (probaly I am lol) but I would like to see how Nintendo is going to rectify this because a reticle would ruin a game like duck hunt.

I'm betting it will work just like the zapper: point and shoot.

A reticle would require more programming to these games. In this case, the interface only needs to be rewritten once to make use of the Wiimote for lightgun games. The Wiimote IS a lightgun, just with an awkward shape for a gun. If it can project a cursor on the screen, then it definitely fits the bill.

This means that, yes, we could also see the Super Scope Six games on the VC.

[Tansunn]

The Wiimote is completely different from the Zapper.  The Zapper worked by blanking the screen then covering the positions of the targets with a white rectangle.  If the sensor in the zapper recognized the white rectangle, it registered as a hit, otherwise it was a miss.   The Wiimote determines where it's pointing through the accelerometers and infrared sensor bar, not by flashes on the screen.

[vudu]

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Originally posted by: Pale
Speaking of High scores... are these truly direct ports?  Meaning, will classic NES games that didn't have battery saves like Ice Climber and Balloon Fight add the ability to save high scores?  I mean, they already did that much in Animal Crossing and the GBA ports...  If they don't have high scores I will be significantly disappointed.

Even more so than high scores, I want saves for those really long games that didn't have a save/password function.  Super Mario Bros 3 is still a pain to complete in a single sitting.  I'd love it if they at least added a temporary save function for these types of games.  Something like that could be built directly into the emulator, so they wouldn't even have to mess with the original ROM.

[Ceric]

The Adventure(s can't remember) of Link.  A save function that started you at the last castle you beat.

[Pale]

Even password save games like Metroid have already been updated with save features by Nintendo.  While I don't think they are "stupid" for not putting online multiplayer and stuff in, as I agree that the investment isn't necessarily worth it, but if they take a step backwards from the releases they've already done and make me put in silly passwords all over again and lose all my high scores I will be quite pissed.

[Smash_Brother]

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Originally posted by: Tansunn
The Wiimote is completely different from the Zapper.  The Zapper worked by blanking the screen then covering the positions of the targets with a white rectangle.  If the sensor in the zapper recognized the white rectangle, it registered as a hit, otherwise it was a miss.   The Wiimote determines where it's pointing through the accelerometers and infrared sensor bar, not by flashes on the screen.

I wasn't implying that they're the same hardware, only that the functionality for the games in question will be the same.

You should be able to point at the screen, squeeze the trigger/button and hit whatever you're pointing at with both.

[MegaByte]

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Originally posted by: Mr. Jack
What about Duck Hunt and Hogan's Alley and stuff like that, are we going to be able to use the Wii Remote as a pointer to play those games?

I suppose it's possible that the light gun attachment will have actual light gun circuitry.

[AnyoneEB]

Light gun --> Wiimote conversion is possible, but not trivial. I see no reason why Nintendo would not do it eventually.

I do not know about other emulators, but I know ZSNES's netplay is not very good. I remember seeing one of the devs suggesting that its best application was for playing a game on one monitor with two keyboards. The problem is, the games were made to assume zero lag, which doesn't happen over the internet. For some games, it doesn't matter, but for fast moving games, it's intolerable. (Anyone who has ever played a LAN game of armagetron knows what I mean... and that is designed for LAN play, just Tron is pretty much the fastest possible game.)