Topic: IMPRESSIONS: The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess

[ruby_onix]

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Originally posted by: Bloodworth

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The game was FINISHED over a year ago. It didn't appear at E3. It appeared at LAST YEAR's E3.

Seriously, since Nintendo split the game into two versions, I don't see why they ever bothered to delay the GameCube one.

How many times do I have to debunk this CRAP.  They are just now tying the level design together.  The game wasn't delayed because of Wii controls.  Do you really think that they decided to delay their biggest money-maker for 2005 just for these slight differences?  I guess if I believed that, I'd be pissed too.  

I see the Wii controls as another acknowledgement that the GameCube is dead, and if they have to release Zelda this late, they decided they needed to take advantage of the new system somehow.

Isn't that where they were at nine months ago? Having spent two and a half years tweaking the Wind Waker engine, only to realize that building the levels and storyline in 3 months was the biggest flaw of Wind Waker, and that they shouldn't repeat that mistake?

So they said they were going to delay the game to build more levels. Now they've spent nine months working on something they'll never fully explain, and the most likely suspect is a new gimmick that involves major game engine tweaking, and now they've got 6 months remaining to make the levels.

I think that if the GameCube version can't take advantage of the thing that took up the bulk of the delay time, and the only reason to buy the Cube version is if you want the outdated control scheme, and the only reason to buy the Wii version is if you want a gimmick that may not have been the most natural fit for the game, then Nintendo should've just released the 3-month version of Twilight Princess on schedule (back when the Cube was less dead), and released a Wii-exclusive Directors Cut at the system's launch. That way both groups would've had valid reasons to own their respective versions, and nobody would have to ponder and choose which flaws they prefer.

[Bloodworth]

No, it doesn't take a team that massive to just work on controls.  The reason for the delay is that they are hardcore, dead-set on making a game better than Ocarina of time, and if TP was released last year, they wouldn't have accomplished that.  Don't forget, Ocarina of Time was delayed more than a year too.  

[GoldenPhoenix]

Does anyone have any facts to back up their claims that all the time from the delay was spent on just the Wii controls? Or is it all baseless whining which seems to be a common trend now? We know for sure that there was a big graphical change for the "dark" world, why can that not be taken into account in addition to the Wii controls before people jump to conclusions on what they have been doing that whole time?

[ruby_onix]

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Originally posted by: Bloodworth
No, it doesn't take a team that massive to just work on controls.  The reason for the delay is that they are hardcore, dead-set on making a game better than Ocarina of time, and if TP was released last year, they wouldn't have accomplished that.  Don't forget, Ocarina of Time was delayed more than a year too.

You can't just switch the control input over from two-axis analog over to multiple six-axis accelerometers balancing on a laser pointer. I'm no expert, but I'd imagine that took more game engine work than their original task of turning off the cel-shading. A number of developers are reportedly saying that they're having a hard time implementing the complexity of the Wii's controls, yet (from a technical standpoint) Aonuma's team supposedly did an exceptional job.

And IIRC, Ocarina's delay was announced on the heels of their announcement that they were changing the game's platform from the 64DD to the cart-only N64.

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Originally posted by: VGrevolution
Does anyone have any facts to back up their claims that all the time from the delay was spent on just the Wii controls? Or is it all baseless whining which seems to be a common trend now? We know for sure that there was a big graphical change for the "dark" world, why can that not be taken into account in addition to the Wii controls before people jump to conclusions on what they have been doing that whole time?

The E3 version of Twilight Princess may have been running on Wii development kits. Information on that seems to be spotty. It seems that all anyone can say is that "it looked like a GameCube game". And the dev kits looked like GameCubes. Even if those improved graphics are present in the GameCube version, nobody's going to appreciate them without a frame of reference. The old graphics weren't bad. I still say they should've had the old graphics in the Cube version, and the new ones (possibly better even) in the Wii. And if that happens to be the case, then it just reinforces my "the delay was wasted on the GameCube" assessment.

As for the lack of facts, I blame Nintendo's lack of info (as always).

Here's how I see what happened.

Nintendo: We're delaying TP to add levels and fun.
Nintendo: Wiimote = Fun. You will say wow.
Fanbase: So you're delaying TP for the Wiimote?
Nintendo: No, that would be a betrayal.

Nintendo: TP = Wiimote. You will say wow.
Fanbase: WTF? Okay, I'll ignore that betrayal thing.
Fanbase: Meh. No urge to say wow. Is this what you wasted your time on?


Now, I do actually think that if Aonuma wanted more time to refine and flesh out TP that it probably wouldn't have made it out before Christmas. But they could've done it like Resident Evil 4, and brought out the GameCube version after Christmas, and then brought out the Director's Cut (assuming the PS2 version of RE4 was anything like a Director's Cut) before the next Christmas.

[Bloodworth]

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You can't just switch the control input over from two-axis analog over to multiple six-axis accelerometers balancing on a laser pointer.

Actually, I don't think that the Zelda controls in the E3 demo were using the same level of complexity as other games.  There was nothing shown that needs to take tilt into account.  Using the pointer is not all that different than using an analog stick or mouse.  The accelerometers are used rather basically.  The most complex uses really are the sword spin and fishing.

And my earlier comment regarding the level design is based on statements made around March (published in the May issue of Nintendo Power).  These comments should be proof enough that there's a lot more happening with Zelda than just adapting to a new control scheme.

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development is at the point where the game's outline is very close to being nailed down.  The main flow of the game is getting a few tweaks, and changes are being made to some of the many branching storylines that always make up a Zelda adventure.

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there's a feeling that we absolutely can't "lose" to Ocarina.

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bringing the wolf to life in the most authentic way possible has been an immense, new challenge for the Zelda team.

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as we've had many discussions over many months, that blueprint has kept evolving.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Zelda's the big laffo of the internet. confirmed.

[Louieturkey]

Well Daniel said and backed up his statement.  I'll believe that over speculation of without any proof.  Nintendo always tries to make the next game in the series much better than the previous one(unlike most other companies who add one new feature and call it a new game).  The dev team thought they weren't going to be able to live up to that reputation and had to delay the game to make it better.   They completely revamped the style of the dark world and that alone must've taken a long amount of time to implement.  On top of that, with the new look, the levels that were already created would have to be modified to work with the new look.

All I hope for is that the Wii version has both controls and I can choose which style I want to use.  I'm getting a Wii version based solely on the fact that it will be the only version with progressive scan.  Even if I don't have a choice with control scheme, I don't think it will be much different from the GC version based on impressions because the only things that the wiimote is used for is aiming arrows and fishing for the most part.  The analog stick is still used in the same way; the attack button is still A; the defend button is still B.  There is no way that control scheme took 6 months to implement and with no graphical upgrade compared to the GC version, they had to do something for those 6 months and that involved the graphical revamp and level design.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Who the heck said the GC version WON'T have p.scan?

[IceCold]

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Originally posted by: Professional 666
Who the heck said the GC version WON'T have p.scan?

Yeah, I think all first party GameCube games have progressive scan, right? I think the Wii version just has widescreen..

[MaleficentOgre]

wii is in widescreen 480 and cube is just progressive.  that's the difference as far as I know.

[ruby_onix]

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Originally posted by: Bloodworth
And my earlier comment regarding the level design is based on statements made around March (published in the May issue of Nintendo Power).  These comments should be proof enough that there's a lot more happening with Zelda than just adapting to a new control scheme.

Yeah, the "month" figures I was tossing out can't be taken as fact, and there's sure to have been more stuff going on behind the scenes than just the Wiimote, but we'll never know how much of it was really "vital", and Nintendo themselves are pretty much telling us how many resources they put into the Wii version by telling us we need to pay seperately for it.

[IceCold]

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and Nintendo themselves are pretty much telling us how many resources they put into the Wii version by telling us we need to pay seperately for it.

I don't think that's really indicative; the major reason that Nintendo did that was to sell more Wii systems. If the motion sensing capabilities were included in the GCN disc, then that wouldn't sell Wiis. GameCubes are so cheap now that if anyone didn't have it and wanted Zelda, they would just buy one and not consider a Wii. Maybe they would pop it in later on, but many wouldn't. By having a separate disc for the Wii, they will ensure that Zelda does in fact sell Wiis, as the exclusive content is only available on a Wii disc.