Topic: Rev "sufficient" against 360

[TMW]

http://news.punchjump.com/article.php?id=2064

So says Anonymous, anyhow.

And I will pistol whip (read: severely frown at) anyone who brings up HD.  

[Bill Aurion]

Just so you know, the developer meant that the controller's potential is so huge that the graphics really won't be important...

[ShyGuy]

I wanna see a screenshot. $1 to the first person who can bring me a screenshot!

[Dirk Temporo]

It could actually be taken either way.

[couchmonkey]

"Sufficient" doesn't sound too impressive to me.  All this means is that the developer came to his senses and realized the Xbox 360's power doesn't really contribute much to 90% of game designs.

[BlkPaladin]

Yeah the quote litterally means that the innovation involved with the controller will make you forget about how much better looking the consoles are graphically.

Its just like the DS while you are playing it and having fun you are not worried that it isn't as powerful as the PSP, or doesn't have as powerful of graphics.

[PIAC]

So where is HD.

[TMW]

Quote
Originally posted by: PIAC
So where is HD.

[couchmonkey]

Well, further to this, IGN called some developers and all confirmed that the system is less powerful than the others, but it won't matter because of the unique controller.

Also in that article: big developers now have wireless controllers and kits that represent about 90-95% of the system's final power.  Smaller ones have juiced-up cubes with wired controllers (that still do the motion control, obviously).  They expect to have full dev kits for all developers in June.  Not a bad timeline, it seems realistic for this to launch in December.  I think it will have a better launch lineup than the DS.

[Ian Sane]

I don't really like this "it doesn't matter because of the controller" arguement.  What about games that don't use the remote?  Not every game will use the remote and not every game should use it.  Isn't the weaker hardware going to affect those games?  Lets say some huge third party game gets released on the PS3 or X360 and it's this huge deal like GTA3 was and they want to port it to the other systems.  It's a "normal" game, it doesn't use the remote controller, and the Rev ends up getting the worst version.  That was a problem with the Cube.  Yeah we got games like Splinter Cell but the Cube version was always the worst version.  That means that no one who owns other consoles will buy the Rev version which hurts third party sales.  That means no one who would buy a console for that game would consider getting the Rev.  That's bad.  Nintendo has enough problems.  They don't need to continue the problem of being the "worst" console for all non-exclusive games.

You can argue that exclusives are what really matters but missing games everyone else has is bad too.  It was bad for the Cube that GTA was available on every console but it.  It was bad that for games like Madden or Splinter Cell the Cube version was always the worst.  It was bad that Cube ports always arrived late.  That sort of stuff just hurts a console's reputation.  At the very least it makes a system look like it's failing because third parties are visually demonstrating that they don't care about it.

[RiskyChris]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I don't really like this "it doesn't matter because of the controller" arguement.  What about games that don't use the remote?  Not every game will use the remote and not every game should use it.  Isn't the weaker hardware going to affect those games?  Lets say some huge third party game gets released on the PS3 or X360 and it's this huge deal like GTA3 was and they want to port it to the other systems.  It's a "normal" game, it doesn't use the remote controller, and the Rev ends up getting the worst version.  That was a problem with the Cube.  Yeah we got games like Splinter Cell but the Cube version was always the worst version.  That means that no one who owns other consoles will buy the Rev version which hurts third party sales.  That means no one who would buy a console for that game would consider getting the Rev.  That's bad.  Nintendo has enough problems.  They don't need to continue the problem of being the "worst" console for all non-exclusive games.

Hey get this.  MS and Sony continue the problem of having the "worst" consoles for all innovative games.  It's a tradeoff.  All three companies made a choice.

[Ian Sane]

"Hey get this. MS and Sony continue the problem of having the 'worst' consoles for all innovative games."

Fun fact: Grand Theft Auto III is an innovative game and is without a doubt the most influencial title of the last generation.  This game was created on a non-Nintendo console with a "normal" controller.  Katamari Damacy is another innovative title not made for a Nintendo console that uses a normal controller.  Lumines is an innovative game on the PSP and it doesn't even use a touchscreen.  How is that possible?  Innovation is possible without reinventing the wheel.  Last gen the Playstation 2 was the best console for innovative games and cookie-cutter games and good and bad games and just games period.  It did this because it just plain had more games than anyone else.  So don't feed me this crap about how only a Nintendo console can have innovative games much less that one needs to complete redesign the controller in order to innovate.

And how many innovative games are there on the Rev?  ZERO.  Nintendo's PR is the only source of any innovation to be had on the Revolution and this is a company that shoehorns Mario into every cliche unoriginal game concept they can think of.  The remote isn't innovative until games (and GOOD games at that; ones that are as good or better then the best traditional games) are shown.  Until then it's just a concept.

[zakkiel]

Quote
And how many innovative games are there on the Rev? ZERO.

I'll resist the urge to formulate a crushing reply to this bizarre statement, and simply observe that you have no idea what the games for the Rev will be like.  

[darknight06]

Somebody please tell me what the heck was so special with Katamari Damacy and GTA3.  GTA I can kind of see, but Katamari still loses me everytime I play it.  I think Katamari is cool and all, but I'm not feeling the "innovation" here.

And to whoever gave Guitar Hero innovative game of the year, COME ON, IT'S DDR/BEATMANIA WITH A GUITAR WHICH HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE!!!

[nemo_83]

That doesn't prove the system can match PS3 or 360's SD graphics it just says that developer's opinion is the controller makes up for the disappointment of lack of power.

[Ian Sane]

"I think Katamari is cool and all, but I'm not feeling the 'innovation' here."

Innovation means doing something new, right?  How many other games have you played where you roll objects up in a big ball to create stars?  If you don't like it that's fine.  But it's still a pretty unique concept.

"I'll resist the urge to formulate a crushing reply to this bizarre statement, and simply observe that you have no idea what the games for the Rev will be like."

I know I have no idea.  Neither do you.  That's the point.  So "but the Rev provides more innovation" is a weak arguement because there's no proof of that beyond Nintendo's say-so.  We can't say for certain which console will be more innovative until we see some games.  Right now it's like everyone thinks that it is impossible to innovate on the other systems.  That's just plain not true.  And even if the Rev is more innovative it would make no difference if those games all sucked.  The Rev has to prove that it is truly innovative and that it innovates in a way that results in better games.

[Artimus]

Ian, everyone, can we not just agree to disagree on this one? Clearly some people like Nintendo's plans here, and others do not. Until we see games and more they are both reasonable positions.

Let's just accept it and move on?

[trip1eX]

Yeah the horse is dead.  

[Sir_Stabbalot]

Bah. Remember people, the Rev won't use HD. That means the extra power for displaying HD textures and resolutions won't be needed. Even if it's a bit weaker then the others, it will still perform just as well on normal TVs. HD only adds in extra resolution, not power. So they can focus on poly counts or framerates.

[Michael8983]

"Lets say some huge third party game gets released on the PS3 or X360 and it's this huge deal like GTA3 was and they want to port it to the other systems. It's a "normal" game, it doesn't use the remote controller, and the Rev ends up getting the worst version. That was a problem with the Cube."

You're right. There will be cases like that.
But you're also right about it being the same with the Cube which had a normal controller and was actually much more powerful than its leading competitor. That's the point. If the REV had a normal controller and plenty of power it would likely still be neglected by third-parties. With a traditional console, Nintendo wouldn't have gotten games like GTA anyway. At best maybe ports that wouldn't sell. But because of its unique controller and more developer friendly (if less powerful) hardware, even if doesn't get the traditional third-party titles, it will hopefully get a decent amount of alternative titles. That will likely be exclusive.
I'll take a unique new title only playable on the REV over a sloppy port of a game available on TWO competiting consoles anyday.

[nemo_83]

I think I'm going to make a new thread called Revolution can't match the lighting effects or polygon rates of 360 even without the pixel rate standards of 360 to worry about  because it is freaking impossible unless the Revolution is six hundred dollars for all the million dollar nano technology and liquid cooling that would be required for such a small system to match what the 360 can do which is four or more times larger than the Revolution and made by the same people who created the CPU and GPU for the 360.  But I just don't think it will fit in the title blank.

[Strell]

Quote
Originally posted by: nemo_83
But I just don't think it will fit in the title blank.

Not with that attitude it won't.