Author Topic: How is it possible for others to steal Nintendo´s patented and copyrighted designs?  (Read 5944 times)

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Offline Gamebasher

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I just read that cool IGN E3 2005 interview with the great Man, Miyamoto, himself. On page two of listed transcript of that interview, Matt Cassamassina asks Miyamoto if everything about the Revolution controller has been finalised yet or not. In his reply, Miyamoto says that of course it has been finalised, but since Nintendo has learned some tough lessons in the past involving direct copying of things they invented, like the Rumble pack, the analogue controller, the wireless technology in the Wavebird, they don´t want to let this happen again with the Revolution controller. They have made certain that they will not show anything until Sony´s and Microsofts controllers are finalized. So that much is clear. Now for the next part of the issue:

Maybe it´s me who missed out on something here, but isn´t a specific invention which is patented supposed to be protected by the copyrights? It´s like Sony´s problem in California with the other thing they also copied, didn´t pay for and are now heavily penalized for, can´t they keep their hands off? Can´t Nintendo sue them into the bottom of hell for the mere act of copying something which is patented and protected? How is it possible for the three acts of copying of Nintendo innovations to have taken place unopposed before then?

The interview can be found

here
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Offline Pale

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Its a good point.  the key words you used are "specific invention."  I think we can expect this to be something that has been around for a while yet utilized in a new way.  If it was truly a new invention, you're right, Nintendo would have some legal backing to prevent copying.

Take, for example, analog controls on the N64.  It is not the first controller to do it.  The only thing Nintendo could legally patent on it (not sure if they actually did, but I'm assuming so) is the implementation of the stick.  Sony obviously implemented it differently and could thus avoid any possible infringment.

I definately suspect the Rev's innovation to be something similar in simplicity but taken to a Nintendo level of goodness... namely gyros..  
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Offline vudu

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Maybe it´s me who missed out on something
I'm sorry, but that's downright hi-lar-ious.
Why must all things be so bright? Why can things not appear only in hues of brown! I am so serious about this! Dull colors are the future! The next generation! I will never accept a world with such bright colors! It is far too childish! I will rage against your cheery palette with my last breath!

Offline ThePerm

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i hope the new controller has clicks in the analog joysticks
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Offline KDR_11k

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If that secret really is Gyration Nintendo doesn't own the patents, they license them. MS or Sony could just come around and license it too or even buy out the company.

Offline Gamebasher

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Dear Mother of God. They are cunning, aren´t they? The way they always try to circumvent design-patents of others, JUST TO MAKE A BUCK EXTRA. To me they are just too much. Can´t they come up with something by themselves, for crying out loud?

I mean, I am just HAPPY it´s not me who have to be out there and having to do all that legal wrangling. Sometimes I should like to resort to OTHER means than the mere diplomatic ones. But Nintendo will never be bought out by any company like Sony or Microsoft. They recebtly prevented a hostile takeover by buying up all of their stock so they (breathing a sigh of relief!!!).

I still think though that the Sony Playstation brand will be banned in the US for good. Here they can´t circumvent anything. Hooray!!
Nintendo is the originator of videogame innovation! The Great Mover of the Industry. Past, present and future. Rightfully, the King of Videogaming!

Offline Pale

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Originally posted by: Gamebasher
I still think though that the Sony Playstation brand will be banned in the US for good. Here they can´t circumvent anything. Hooray!!

I wouldn't get your hopes up.  I'm sure the reason we aren't hearing anything about that lawsuit is because Sony is throwing bucketloads of money at them.  The Playstation brand name is worth millions to them and they won't give it up.
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Offline KDR_11k

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Gamebasher: Why would Sony or MS attempt to circumvent Nintendo's patents to make money? Hm, perhaps... Because their ultimate goal is to make money? Seriously, if the patent system wasn't this flawed Sony couldn't circumvent something Nintendo patents, but more importantly, Nintendo wouldn't be able to patent anything that has been invented before! Like, say, emulation on limited devices or whatever they have come up with now that "isn't entirely new but was never applied to games before".

Offline RABicle

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Originally posted by: Gamebasher
I still think though that the Sony Playstation brand will be banned in the US for good. Here they can´t circumvent anything. Hooray!!
Sony appealed the court decision. And it's hardly like America is some wonderful stronghold where big brands are put in their place. Corporations have more, not less, leg room in the US.
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Offline KDR_11k

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Immersion is another company, though and now they're backed by Microsoft. Sure, so was SCO but Immersion actually has a case here.

Offline TheYoungerPlumber

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*sigh* The whole idea behind patents is to make the details of innovations or ideas  public, and force others to either pay to use the concept in a product or encourage others to make significant improvements/modifications (which they can then patent).  I have no idea how close the real world is to this ideal  in the realm of electronics...I only know of algorithm patents.  
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Offline Gamebasher

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"Gamebasher: Why would Sony or MS attempt to circumvent Nintendo's patents to make money? Hm, perhaps... Because their ultimate goal is to make money? Seriously, if the patent system wasn't this flawed Sony couldn't circumvent something Nintendo patents, but more importantly, Nintendo wouldn't be able to patent anything that has been invented before! Like, say, emulation on limited devices or whatever they have come up with now that "isn't entirely new but was never applied to games before"."

KDR11k, you are probably right! It isn´t SONY who is the only culprit here. There would then be loads od people out there who feels ripped off by large corporations if they were the first to invent something.

Sure makes one think more deeply about the whole situation with copyrights.

It will be interesting to see what comes out of the courtcase in California. Has anyone heard anything new?

 
Nintendo is the originator of videogame innovation! The Great Mover of the Industry. Past, present and future. Rightfully, the King of Videogaming!

Offline KDR_11k

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It's patent law, not copyrights. The only problem with copyright is the corrupt politicians who will extend it every time Disney wants because Mickey Mouse might become public domain. The patent propblem is a longstanding and well known one, the USPTO is utterly understaffed to do any proper research on patent applications which forces them to pretty much rubberstamp these things to get them done as fast as they come in. Many patents are overbroad, obvious, not new or plain idiotic (perpetuum mobile, anyone?). Stuff like the Amazon 1-click patent should not happen.

Offline Gamebasher

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I think I have a solution.

They should first and foremost get more powerfull software for computers of a type which is able to flawlessly supervise the flow of all patent applications better, screen them and approve or disapprove them! The patent system should forewarn any applicant, no matter who it is, that decision of the patent application would be fair but final, and non-negotiable. The applicant should sign this, before applying or will be unable to apply.

This, in order to ensure that detected counterfeiting of- or reverse engineering of patents is punished by immediate rejection to keep the system free of such filth. This would require very knowledable and experienced people to work with the computers. People who have a broad overview of all things relating to patents. I think it could work. Afterall, computers are far more capable of keeping track of the endless numbers of applications, than any humans who have many other things to look after would ever be able to. And they could work together just fine.

I really think that many people who work in the game industry would appreciate more orderliness in that very important area. The situation now is just completely unacceptable. It hurts people who work in the industry. Leading to company giving up too soon. So the the videogame makers should influence the politicians. I really feel that if things continue like they are today, it will lead to a gradual brutalization of the whole gameindusty which is not exactly very healthy for any creativity! The resulting atmosphere in the industry thus would not be a good working environment at all. If the problem gets big enough, there would certainly be a consensus to do something about it. For example what I suggest.

If, say, Nintendo, can have their company schedule, workflow and creativity inhibited out of fear for theft of their inventions by competitors, and which is pretty much the situation ever since Nintendo had their creations copied in three instances by Sony (I was made aware by a PGC Forum member that they may not be Nintendo´s inventions in some instances, but in principle it is the same) and now refuse to show us Mario 128 and the Revolution controller, we are looking at a probable future scenario where they (and others) will not be able to be content with merely not showing their secrets, but need dead loyal guards at all critical sections of their company in order to keep out the prying eyes and ears of spies sent by competitors to steal them because they lack the ability to come up with something new themselves and turn to industrial espionage.

So what is the solution?

A simple change of the patent law in that area into a set of regulations which would make it illegal to copy, immitate or reverse engineer any product or invention originally created by a specific person or company first and who own the patent - without express offical permission from same! That would ensure that intellectual property rights are not violated ever again.

As stated above, I think it would be in the interest of (in this case) the videogame makers themselves. Order through clever legislation rather than chaos through idiotic rules, would protect in particular the videogame makers, benefitting us all since we would, in example, get rid of all the copycat type or me-too videogame titles (that benefit too many companies who make games, but is damaging to creativity overall and thus makes the market stagnant) and only see original gametitles on the shelves! This would benefit everyone in any area of the market. But of course right now it seems it is mostly needed in the game industry. I really think that when money becomes involved because people see the market potential ever growing, people just don´t care what they do to join in the money party. That is why I think that such a new system would do great!  
Nintendo is the originator of videogame innovation! The Great Mover of the Industry. Past, present and future. Rightfully, the King of Videogaming!

Offline KDR_11k

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I don't think they need to warn the applicant, someone who hires a lawyer to write up a patent application should be familiar with patent law. Any invalid patent MUST be rejected IMMEDIATELY. Unfortunately sometimes you need some knowledge of the stuff to decide on the validity and do a lot of research, the USPTO simply doesn't have enough staff to handle the hundreds of thousands of patent applications each year.

but need dead loyal guards at all critical sections of their company in order to keep out the prying eyes and ears of spies sent by competitors to steal them because they lack the ability to come up with something new themselves and turn to industrial espionage.

That's violating trade secret law and illegal, no matter what patent law says. You can't just take a leaked recipe of Coca Cola and replicate the stuff, that's violating trade secrets, too.

A simple change of the patent law in that area into a set of regulations which would make it illegal to copy, immitate or reverse engineer any product or invention originally created by a specific person or company first and who own the patent - without express offical permission from same! That would ensure that intellectual property rights are not violated ever again.

Must I remind you that the law already states that? In fact it's the whole purpose of patents. Except for the reverse engineering bit, you don't need to reverse engineer patented material since complete documentation has to be made available to the USPTO and therefore anyone who has an internet connection. Would be nasty if they told you not to violate a patent but wouldn't tell you what the patent actually protects. Lawyers just always find ways to make a derivative that does not infringe upon the initial patent, usually by defining a different area of application. Since you can't make patents broad enough to prevent that (in fact overbroad patents are a prime issue with the current system already) you can stop that kind of half-copying going on.

Offline Gamebasher

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Thanks for teaching me about these facts.

As you may have already deducted, I know close to nothing about patent law. My reason for proposing changes, was simply based on annoyance with the copycat tendencies of Sony and Nintendo´s complaints about the same.

It is now obvious to me that where the real change must be made in terms of legislation, is in the bar and law society in everything pertaining to their dealings with patent law! They should simply be denied the right to manipulate or circumvent exixting laws through a similar set of rules as seen in Patent Law, and this should be a step in the right direction. This could help to ease the burden on people who register new patents, as it would protect their rights better. I know anything can be a abused, taken advantage of. But an alert and vigilant legislature would at least help to minimize the problems as they are experienced today. Thus helping the entire industry itself!

There are too many lawyers who don´t care about right or wrong, but merely about winning the case for the client and thus make a buck. Which is downright ridiculous, as this runs contrary to the very purpose of a lawyer. I heard about people who had studied in order to become lawyers, but when they saw how the real job is carried out and under what conditions - they dropped out immediately! They couldn´t reconcile their view of Law as it was taught in the University, with the overall practise and view of same in real life.

Why take a case for some criminal, whom everyone knows is WRONG and SICK and then win the case for him because the lawyer is smarter than his adversary in court? Same with Sony, why try to find other applications for a controller design originally invented by someone else, just to get it through approval? It´s immoral, it´s theft, and should be made illegal in the same way as industrial espionage is.

 
Nintendo is the originator of videogame innovation! The Great Mover of the Industry. Past, present and future. Rightfully, the King of Videogaming!