Topic: For those concerned about Revolution (my thoughts)

[GoldenPhoenix]

I've been reading various posts from individuals complaining about Nintendo's statement of Revolution being 2-3 times more powerful than GC. If anyone has followed the history of Nintendo they should know by now that Nintendo has never skimped on power with their consoles, the majority have been top of the line and if not barely below the top.

We need to take into consideration that Nintendo is HONEST about their specs, when they say 2-3 times more powerful they most likely mean that the system will be able to produce games that run and look 2 to 3 times better. Considering games like RE4 and the upcoming Zelda, 2 to 3 times more powerful sounds pretty darn good! Even if the Xbox 360 and PS3 (PS3 especially) games looked like they did in the videos they in no way shape or form running at 30 to 40 times more graphical might than PS2 or Xbox, in fact if anything it is 3 to 4 times if you were to look at the graphical quality (and that is without knowing things like framerate).

Nintendo has never been one to doctor pictures of games like other companies tend to do (I don't think I need to name names here), usually what you see from Nintendo is what the game really looks like. Not only that but Nintendo has said in the past that progressivel hardware is a given, but it is how we play the games is where the focus should be on. This leads me to believe there is the normal hardware upgrade that will compete with Xbox 360 and PS3 with alittle extra "revolution" thrown in for good measure.

So in conclusion before people start panicking look at Nintendo's past when it comes to consoles, hardware power has never been an issue despite those bashing the MP3 movies from a game that is obviously in its early stages. Would you all have been happy if Nintendo showed a FMV or doctored movie of a "graphically impressive" Metroid that wouldn't look anything like the final version? I would hope not!

[mantidor]

"usually what you see from Nintendo is what the game really looks like"

but thats te problem, theres no footage at all!

Anyway Im confident that Nintendo will put out a graphically impressive machine, but I wouldnt bet its going to be on par with the x360 and the ps3. Yes, they always are conservative with their specs, but this time they've also made clear that they are aiming for a small, quiet and affordable device and all of those three features are incompatible with big horsepower, but we should wait for more info.

I love how Nintendo never cheats their consumers, but it sucks that when companies do it they are succesfull while Ninty being honest just isnt, which makes me wonder if they should follow the "sony ways"...  

[jasonditz]

Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
"usually what you see from Nintendo is what the game really looks like"

but thats te problem, theres no footage at all!

Exactly. Its too soon for footage. I'm much more comfortable with them just flat out not showing footage and not giving out specs than going the Sony route.

The last thing we need is a bunch of canned footage that makes the real product, when it arrives, look like hell by comparison. Penny Arcade made a good comment about this: remember the FFVIII dance scene demo for the PS2?

[BigJim]

It's sounding more and more like the Revolution is basically a GameCube on steroids. Beef up the CPU, GPU, and bandwidth, and viola. The Revolution's core logic. I think the benefits of going this route are considerable:

1. Cost of backward compatibility is negligible
2. R&D spending is probably decreased not insignificantly
3. Time to market advantage, allows them to react faster and arrive on-time
4. Potentially faster (thus cheaper) game development due to similar hardware/software tools.

Revolution would forfeit raw power by retaining legacy hardware, but the advantages may outweigh the negatives, particularly #4.

360 and PS3 could easily sell for $399 this time around, and it may be more than what the market can chew. Nintendo could increase their system price to $300 and still have a cost advantage. $300 will still get you powerful equipment, and doesn't appear as "toy-like" as $199.

[KnowsNothing]

Quote
It's sounding more and more like the Revolution is basically a GameCube on steroids. Beef up the CPU, GPU, and bandwidth, and viola. The Revolution's core logic.

That is as far away from the core logic as you can possibly get, aside from saying that the Rev's goal is to save your legs after a drumset falls on you out of an underground bassinet.

I see what you're saying, and it makes sense, but lol the whole point of the Rev is to break the trend of "beefing up."

[GoldenPhoenix]

One other thing is that for the most part NIntendo is great when it comes for ease of developing for their consoles. What they may sacrifice in power is made up by ease of development (Just look at GC vs PS2 and their specs, then look at the graphics).

[Ian Sane]

"If anyone has followed the history of Nintendo they should know by now that Nintendo has never skimped on power with their consoles, the majority have been top of the line and if not barely below the top."

That's true but Nintendo has also never:

1. Launched a console with anyone but Yamauchi in charge.
2. Talked about non-gamers as any sort of priority.
3. Released games with bland graphics which they did with every Mario game on the Cube.

Nintendo is changing.  Some of it is good stuff like how the Rev is online and has DVD playback and doesn't look like a friggin' toy.  We're looking at a different Nintendo so we can't say they'll do something because it's how they did it before.

[KnowsNothing]

Quote
3. Released games with bland graphics which they did with every Mario game on the Cube.

I don't understand that.  How has ANY Mario game had bland graphics?  SMS was bright, colorful, cheery, and BEAUTIFUL.  If you're talking about the Mario sports title than you're insane.  Compare this with this.  

[Chris1]

Yes, I thought SMS graphics were quite nice, especially the water!  It was a pretty looking game, i wouldn't call it bland either  

[Hostile Creation]

Super Mario Sunshine looked great.  It wasn't realistic or a totally new art style, but it was a beautiful game and had a much better artistic style than Super Mario 64.

Quote
Talked about non-gamers as any sort of priority.

I don't even know if the term non-gamer was commonly used at all prior to this generation, especially in the industry.  Nintendo has always sought to appeal to all gamers, not solely to "hardcore" gamers.  The NES and SNES were very accessible systems that a lot of people who don't even play games anymore really liked.  People who don't own consoles call them classics.  They appeal to all gamers, always have.  Now they're just making a point of saying it.
All of your points are pretty bad, actually.

[TheYoungerPlumber]

I think Nintendo has the advantage of working with the same partners on the Revolution as they did with the GameCube.  BigJim's explanation of it being a GC on steroids isn't too far from the truth in terms of PROCESSING and GRAPHICS HARDWARE.  MS is going from an Intel and nVidia setup to a PowerPC and ATI setup.  That's a big change for tool development and backwards compatibility.  All of Nintendo's discussions regarding hardware innovation have been in terms of the interface--that's why they are so worried about theft: the innovative aspects are fairly platform-independent, and could be replicated within a controller for the Xbox360 or PS3.

Nintendo is hoping similar achitecture and the same (or an augmented) API will make development fiscally and creatively easier for itself and third parties.  And you know, what, they might be right if the PSP at E3 is any indicator.  It is looking like developers and publishers are shying away from the overhead of PSP's larger budgets, and instead are gravitating toward the DS with its lower graphical expectations and more consumer-friendly prices.  People who love their PSP and bought it at launch, including individuals on staff, were very disappointed with the PSP showing at E3 when compared to the DS and is wide variety and surprisingly good third party line-up (Viewtiful Joe, Emergency Room, Phoenix Wright, Sonic Rush, Pac'n Roll).  The DS started with a weak line-up, but the PSP looks to have an equally dry spell.  If you thought a lack of games hurt with your $150 system, just imagine!

[ThePerm]

waverace on the original gamecube reel looked 10x better, luigi's mansion did too, and so did zelda(although  now twilight princess looks way better than that.. however....it took 5 years to get there).

So nintendo not showing us footage is really doing us a favor. When gamecube debuted (god that is such a weird word...i really was puzzled on the spelling daybyood lol)all it showed was fmv..and nintendo really is a fan oriented company..they dont want to displeas us. And another thing. Ps2 demo has ffviii(dance fmv) in real time and some crazy face...while ps3 had alfred molina's face and ff7 in real time.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I too do not understand Ian's statements about Nintendo releasing bland looking games on GC, Luigi's Mansion had alot of artistic flare to it along with Super Mario Sunshine. In fact I've found all the games to be what I love from NIntendo when it comes to graphics, smooth framerates with alittle hit on graphical details. The sport games were great for what they were and like the majority of Nintendo's games in the past they were smooth flowing (something companies seem to forget, they sacrifice framerate for pretty graphics). Not only that but Wind Waker, like it or hate, you have to admit it had some great visuals so if anything that is one area where Nintendo has remained consistent! And about their statements regarding the non-gamer, I think they are mainly referring to the casual gamer which I think Nintendo has been great at throughout their lifespan (take the Mario Party series or even Mario Kart!).

[thepoga]

Quote
Originally posted by: VGrevolution

Even if the Xbox 360 and PS3 (PS3 especially) games looked like they did in the videos they in no way shape or form running at 30 to 40 times more graphical might than PS2 or Xbox, in fact if anything it is 3 to 4 times if you were to look at the graphical quality (and that is without knowing things like framerate).

The PS3 and XBox 360 are reportedly about a dozen times as powerful as their predecessors (the XBox about . They never said anythng about 30 to 40 times as powerful. Also, if you look at the videos, you've got to realize that they aren't running on the final hardware or whatever, and the games aren't anywhere near completion.

But I don't think that games will need THAT much power. It's like having a car that can go a million mph. What's the point of going that fast when you have speed limits that max out at 80? Hopefully 3 times as powerful as the GC will be enough.

[mantidor]

Its unbelievable the short memory span of the gaming comunity, its like the hype of the ps2 graphics along with the big dissapointment that came afterwards never happened, as much as I dislike sony with my heart, they are extremely good at marketing and making believe the public what they want.

[IceCold]

"But I don't think that games will need THAT much power. It's like having a car that can go a million mph. What's the point of going that fast when you have speed limits that max out at 80? "

Like Iwata said - we're making Ferraris but they're making rocket ships. But we're both travelling on earth... (paraphrased)

[Truthliesn1seyes]

Posted this over at the REV vs PS3 vs XBOX 360 thread but since this thread seems to be focusing on the graphics side of things, I thought it would be also relevent here.   I got this from the Nsider forums which was taken from the gamespot forums lol.

Quote:
IBM tells all the design requirements for each of the 3 nex gen consoles

Quote: "All of these [companies] are looking for a way to differentiate themselves from each other," said IBM's Su. "What we offered them is sort of a bag of tricks in terms of processor technology ... that they could pull from to differentiate their products."

Microsoft is emphasizing Internet connectivity with its new high-definition Xbox 360, as well as other entertainment features such as the ability to connect to home computers to play music and show movies.

Sony's new PlayStation is expected to introduce a new high-definition DVD technology, called Blu-ray, along with all sorts of ways to connect with other Sony electronics such as MP3 music players and digital cameras.

Nintendo, meanwhile, is sticking fast to the gaming business. It was looking mainly for ways to better display graphics, speed up the processing power of its GameCube successor, and make it more user-friendly, with wireless controller connections and other features.


http://www.ajc.com/search/content/auto/epaper/editions/sunday/business_24683f4d47fa40d30084.html






Quote:
I know that 14 editors already have the kits.

Activision, Atari, Capcom, EA, Hudson, Koei, Konami, Majesco, Namco, Sega, Square Enix, THQ, Ubisoft, Vu Games.

Other companies will confirm very soon.

http://www.nintendomaine.com/ndm.php?funcs=dnews:1116442391&PHPSESSID=a9540ba5efce84bd95916a2ad101c6bd


The writer doesn't include Konami but it was confirmed at the E3.

I think its safe to say that the Rev's graphics will be up to snuff.  Even if it is underpowered, it won't be visible onscreen.  According to these quotes, IBM states that Sony and MS seem to have focused their system's guts towards their multipurpose needs where as Nintendo is focusing on whats important for the games, visually, ease of developement, and hardware efficiency.  This line says its all "
Nintendo, meanwhile, is sticking fast to the gaming business. It was looking mainly for ways to better display graphics, speed up the processing power of its GameCube successor, and make it more user-friendly, with wireless controller connections and other features."

Its also good to see alot of publishers already have kits since alot of people were doubting that.
 

[OptimusPrime]

Thats why i hate these multi-media monsters. Their internal processing resources get divided....a lot! So what if the X360 is 10 times more powerfull then the Xbox, if half of that power can't be used for games...Nintendo's Revolution could trump them on graphics with their game-only superefficient "underpowered" hardware.

And it's nice to see that the big 15 allready have dev-kits. There is still hope...for Madden 2006 Revolution...yaaay!

[GoldenPhoenix]

Definately some interesting news, I didn't think about the multi purpose requirements for hardware, though this more than reaffirms my claim even if Nintendo Revolution is only 2 or 3 times more powerful than GC it is in the area of graphical display (which is quite good).

[jasonditz]

Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
Its unbelievable the short memory span of the gaming comunity, its like the hype of the ps2 graphics along with the big dissapointment that came afterwards never happened, as much as I dislike sony with my heart, they are extremely good at marketing and making believe the public what they want.

I know, its amazing. People act like the PS2 was flawless from day one. Nobody remembers the whole thing with Capcom (trying to port Code Veronica from the DC and having a hell of a time getting the same performance), or Kojima saying while he was working on MGS2 that the system was nowhere near as powerful as he expected. Nobody remembers that for a long time you couldn't buy a memory card for the thing anywhere. Nobody remembers the launch full of sloppy titles, where they actually had the gall to call DVD "games" like Dragon's Lair that would play on any DVD "launch titles".

[GoldenPhoenix]

Hey I remember the sloppy launch, though I was one of the first to buy a PS2 (I remember waiting at 5:30am in front of my local shopping center everyday to see if they had one). I also remember the images Sony showed of how graphically superior PS2 was and it turns out they were nothing like the final game!