Topic: Iwata Talks About Online Games

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Mario Kart: Double Dash!! was in development as early as E3 2001, evidenced by the 3-second in-dev clip that I saw during Nintendo's pre-E3 press conference.

[Djunknown]

Nothing like a spirited debate to get the creative juices going...

Great insight on both sides, but let's keep it level here. I believe Kairon is putting too much faith in Miyamoto here; sure he's made games that had everyone else copying, but he hasn't exaclty delivered big time like he did back then(Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Cliche but true). I don't see developers making Pikmin-like games.... Unless Mario 128 is the end-all of gaming, hopefully Nintendo has an somebody else up to bat.

Wonder what Iwata will say next? Where's Reggie? It seems he's been MIA since E3....  It'd be interesting what Mr.Kick-Ass-and-Take-Names has to say about this.

[KDR_11k]

I'd say it would have been suicide to put MKDD online. They'd have to set up an entire online system for one game (and maybe a few games after it) and keep it up for ten years or so. These things are expensive and cannot be easily shut down. Nintendo had such systems in place in Japan before, they know the associated costs. Also, they're inexperienced when it comes to cheat prevention. Improperly implemented an online service would be a huge risk, probably hurting their image more than no service at all. With the Revolution they can go with online from the first minute or at least plan for it and fire up the service once a good number of consoles is sold. Come to think of it, maybe they just decidedthey wouldn't do online for the Cube because it didn't sell enough and wouldn't be worth the expenses?

[Kairon]

I don't think I'm putting any more trust in Miyamoto than realistically. In fact, go back through my posts and point out where I declare that I expect Miyamoto to come up with any Holy Grail. I'm sure if I do it is merely an unfortunate choice of words. The only trust I'm putting in him is to make games as HE wants to make them, nothing more, nothing less.

And that's what this comes down to: can we let people like Miyamoto have the freedom to make games the way they envision them, driven by their own ideas and interpretations of the medium, or do we, as people outside the development process, have the right to interfere in their artistic integrity by dictating to them that they should make certain types of games, regardless of their wishes?

I'm doing nothing more than trusting Nintendo to continue developing Nintendo games to their own artistic beat, and critics are doing nothing more than demanding that Nintendo games be dictated not by the people like Miyamoto who have essentially made Nintendo what it is today, but by faceless corporate forces and ravenous, mainstream fans.

I'm not even argueing that by proceeding at their own pace that Nintendo will regain market prominence. No. What I am argueing is that if Nintendo would sacrifice the respect and freedom of people like Miyamoto, it would no longer be the Nintendo that we've grown to love, nor will it be a Nintendo that will create the "Nintendo" games we could always depend on them for (which were a result of Miyamoto's and other's free-wheeling creativity in the face of a vacuum of ideas).

I'm only argueing that Nintendo not say: "Look, there's a lot of people who seem to think that online games are the way to go, let's bang out a game to keep up with the Jones'(read: Sony and Microsoft)." The Nintendo I know and love would say, "Look at this interesting new medium that allows people to connect in ways that weren't possible before. Let's see what ideas we have, work on them, get them right, and put out something that we can be proud of."

The Nintendo I believe in has at it's heart the creative forces of game development, innovation and excellence. The Nintendo I cannot accept, and cannot perpetuate, is the one that does something merely because it needs to make more money and gain access to the pockets of more consumers.

Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Ian Sane]

"Also, they're inexperienced when it comes to cheat prevention."

Well that's not really an issue with Mario Kart assuming there's a good match making mode.  As long as you limited yourself to playing with people you know (which I would do) you wouldn't have to worry.  Cheaters are really only a big issue in MMOs.  In other online games you can just avoid them.

And it's not like when they do go online with the Revolution (so I hope) that they're going to suddenly know how to handle cheating.  They can only learn that sort of thing through experience.

"Come to think of it, maybe they just decidedthey wouldn't do online for the Cube because it didn't sell enough and wouldn't be worth the expenses?"

Likely but then their wishy washy attitude towards online gaming within the first few years of the Cube's life may have contributed to lower sales.  Probably not a lot but I know that not having online support when the other two consoles do does make the Cube look inferior in the eyes of the buying public.  Missing features, even if the buyer doesn't use them, is a negative.

Realistically though I don't expect or even want Nintendo to go online with the Cube.  At this point it's too late to matter.  My complaint is that they SHOULD have and have made things harder for themselves going in next gen by not doing so (ie: when they do go online it will be hard to convince people that their solution is better than Sony's and Microsoft's which have already been in place for years.)  I also don't like the attitude they have right now.  It sounds like they don't really want to go online next gen either, like online gaming is just bad period.  The DS and the Revolution both HAVE to be online.  It's inexcusable for them not to be and Nintendo will be totally f*cked in North America if they aren't.  So thus I'm being quite vocal on the subject until Nintendo shows me something concrete that proves they will go online next gen.  Lately it's all been "online is bad" and that doesn't put much confidence in their hints of going online next gen.

[Perfect Cell]

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as people outside the development process, have the right to interfere in their artistic integrity by dictating to them that they should make certain types of games, regardless of their wishes?

Yes. Because were the buyers. If they make games for them instead for the market, the of course they have terrrible sales...


Its that attitude that you speak of. The Were right, and the Market has to adapt to us. Instead of adapting to the market. That has made Nintendo drop from the dominant force in the SNES days to a company that is either third, or seccond depending on who you ask.

Its this righteous attitude, that has nintendo and third parties working against each other, Nintendo out right bashing GTA and Online gaming when both are extremly popular. Its this attitude that had Miyamoto question why people hated the cel shaded Link when he initially showed it. The Market forced them to shift to he realistic zelda shown this year. Its what we wanted.

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. The Nintendo I cannot accept, and cannot perpetuate, is the one that does something merely because it needs to make more money and gain access to the pockets of more consumers.

except Nintendo has to care about making money. If they go 100 percent the route you want, it will simply lead them to the path of Sega.  

[Kairon]

There's no question that Nintendo has to survive as a business. But you're the first one here to suggest that Nintendo would go out of business if they let Miyamoto continue to create games the way he wants too. And to suggest that Nintendo presents a close analogy to pre-fall Sega is amusing at best. To start with, Nintendo's never posted a Fiscal Year loss: they've always made money. They had one or two red-ink Fiscal quarters, but that was mostly due to the dollar-yen exchange rate rather than sleepy game sales.

And the largest arguement that people put forth for Nintendo impinging on it's developer's abilities is that Nintendo won't be the number one console maker without that course of action. But that's ridiculous. The Nintendo we love was never about being the biggest kid on the block, nor was it about holding some arbitrary title of "Marketshare Leader." in an industry big enough for THREE console makers. Nintendo was always about the great games that can arise from creativity.

And when it comes down to it, holding more than 50% market share is vastly less important than allowing people like Miyamoto to develop new and exciting games the way they envision them.

In essence, Greed and Bragging Rights should not become Nintendo values. Vision should be.

Let buyers go elsewhere if they want: thhy're entitled to their opinions. But a true Nintendo gamer should know that they won't be able to find a Miyamoto game without the freedoms he enjoys at the Nintendo of today. Let's face it, if you listened to consumers all the time, we wouldn't have the NES and Super Mario Bros.: focus groups - buyers and consumers, 12-year olds - trashed it. In fact, if we always listened to consumers, the videogame market would be non-existent. It's Nintendo's stubborn actions DESPITE consumer opinion that we have to thank for the videogame revival after Atari destroyed the reputation of videogames in America.

Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[KDR_11k]

Nintendo shouldn't be limited to making what the market wants. Of course, that's the best way to become the top dog, but seriously, do we need another EA?