Topic: Spanish, anyone?

[UncleBob]

Does anyone here read Spanish?

Not to get into a political topic or such, but:

http://www.sre.gob.mx/tramites/guiamigrante/default.htm

According to what I read, this is supposed to be a book for Mexican Citizens on how to illegally enter the US, stay alive, illegally find a job and use false documents to avoid detection, etc., etc...

Oh, and it's supposed to be a book created and distributed by the Mexican Government.

Anywhoo, I was wondering if anyone was bored enough to translate it for me.

[KDR_11k]

Man, with all those instructions on survival it looks almost like a military training manual. I wonder if the border patrol will stop you if you wear an army uniform? Imagine a bunch of immigrants dressed up as SS soldiers storming across the US border...

[UncleBob]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11226144/

If they're in Military uniform, the Border Patrol cannot interfere without special permission from the federal government.

[KDR_11k]

So the smugglers are using war weaponry? Sounds like a reason to position artillery in strategic emplacements and blow them sky high when they start attacking the border patrol. OTOH I don't think the US objects to minefields so those might provide an effective deterrent. Smugglers that dare to fire at law enforcement officials are enemy combatants and to be eliminated at all cost. If they're armed and willing to attack law enforcement officials they deserve no mercy or consideration, only a quick death.

[UncleBob]

Here's the interesting thing, the Mexican Government denies Military involvement - and therefore our agents should be free to fire upon these "soliders".

Unfortunatly, during one of these incursions, there's no time to contact the Mexican Government and see if they are going to deny "this" particular incursion before going after the "soliders"

[KDR_11k]

If they shoot at the border control they are dead meat, soldier or not.

[mantidor]

What you read is WRONG. Is just a friendly warning about the various dangers of crossing the frontier and staying in the US illegally, the first thing that points out is that its far better to try to obtain legally a passport and visa, but since we all know thats not going to happen to most people, and thats also not going to stop them, they give recomendations so that they dont die in the way (thats the part about a woman filling a bottle with water, they advice people that if they are really willing to get through all of this its better to drink salty water if they go through the desert, it can apparently makes you more thirsty, but the risk of dehidration is lower).  They NEVER advice people to get false documents or how to get a job... jesus...

Its almost discouraging, but also reminds mexicans they have their rights and cant be treated badly if border patrols find them. I see it as a response to the likely high rate of deaths and imprisonment that happen to people who want to cross the frontier.

The advice for us colombians though is basically "dont go there, cavity search is almost guaranteed at the airport"

more seriously I remember my mother being really pissed off at the way she was treated at the embassy when she was getting her visa, she needed to go to the states for some english courses for her job (she worked with General Electric at that time), the moment you enter there you are basically treated as a criminal, I can only imagine the treatment you get once you got there Luckily she was with the GE group all the time, but going alone must be a really bad experience, Its disturbing seen my fellow country men so eager to go there and willing to bear the very possible mistreatment and discrimination they are going to recieve just to get out of my poor country T_T

[UncleBob]

So, while it's not as bad as I was lead to believe it was, it still isn't cool that the Mexican Govenment is giving tips to people trying to illegally cross the border...

[S-U-P-E-R]

Here is a translation!

http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=2597

[mantidor]

Its kind of a gray area, yeah its giving them tips, but they are tips to not get killed in the process, not to do anything illegal (besides the frontier-crossing part of course ) It says that if you find some officers, dont resist the arrest, dont show false documents, dont give a false name or nationality etc and also that you have the right to go to the mexican consulate. As I said, Im sure is to prevent deaths and bad treatment of mexicans.

I like it because is realistic, the mexican government didnt just print "DONT CROSS THE FRONTIER ILLEGALLY, ITS BAD" with a big picture of the uncle sam and that creepy stare and just call it a day, because that wouldnt have done a damn thing at all. If this tips saved some lifes I think it was worth it. I suppose that the problem escalated so much that they thought that any controversy would be a lot better than having mexicans and their families dead in the desert, dragged down by rivers in the region, or being taken by these "coyotes" (people with large vehicles that promise the imigrants to get them to the other size, for a prize of course) who god knows what they do to them.

EDIT: LMAO at the traslations those bastards  

[UncleBob]

So basically the Mexican Government is saying "Don't do illegal stuff, but if you do, don't get yourself killed in the process!"?

[mantidor]

pretty much I guess. I personally wouldnt like to try crossing afer reading these though, its discouraging but does not exaggerate things.

[UncleBob]

I don't think that makes me feel much better.  It'd be like the US government saying "Don't make Meth, but if you do..."

[mantidor]

I dont think it makes sense to compare making drugs with people who want to have better future and are willing to risk their lifes in order to get that... but I suppose I should just stop going on with my rant before it gets ugly

[UncleBob]

Maybe the people making the drugs want to sell them so they can have a better future.

Seriously, while I don't necessarly think it's a bad thing to try to save lifes, I don't know if I can feel that the Mexican Government is justified in what comes down to aiding and abetting criminal activity...

[ShyGuy]

Don't do drugs, but here's a clean needle.  

[wandering]

Since I tend to believe that providing accurate information > withholding/manipulating information in ill-conceived attempts to manipulate people's actions, I have no problem with this book.

[Toruresu]

Quote
Originally posted by: ShyGuy
Don't do drugs, but here's a clean needle.

"Don't have sex, but here's a condom"

Same principle?

[KDR_11k]

Ev'ry sperm is sacred, ev'ry sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted God gets quite irate.

[wandering]

Quote
"Don't have sex, but here's a condom"

Smoking is bad, now buy our cigarettes.

Quote
Ev'ry sperm is sacred, ev'ry sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted God gets quite irate.

A true classic.

[Pale]

This is getting eerily close to a political debate, but it hasn't gone there yet.  Cheers to Mantidor for keeping it mostly informative.  Please keep it clean so I don't have to lock it.