Topic: Is this a threat to the Rev-mote?

[thejeek]

Just seen this on  Lik-Sang, via Slashdot: a light-gun compatible with non-CRT TVs including plasma and LCD. One of the major objections to light-guns these days is that they don't work with modern TV technologies

I realise that it actually does a lot less than the Revolution controller will but sometimes just-good-enough is good-enough - especially for an unsophisticated audience (PS2 nudge nudge, wink wink...)

Edit: fix broken link


 

[KDR_11k]

Um, no. It's clearly nowhere as versatile and therefore not a threat. The base stations attached to the TV might have been inspired by the Rev but I doubt that.

[thejeek]

It's clearly not as versitile to you or I because we're obviously interested enough in this stuff to read Planet Game Cube and write forum posts about it.

But does the average EA buying gamer in the street really care? After all it looks like one of the major perceived advantages of the Rev remote outside Japan is the ability to improve FPS's and, frankly, a light gun would go a long way towards improving the experience compared to a typical console analog stick. It only takes Sony or MS to release something like this, nicely styled and supported by something like Halo, a few astroturfer raves saying it's just like, or even better than the Revmote and people will eat it up :-(


 

[Artimus]

I love how it has an analogue stick and multiple buttons.

[thejeek]

And I love the way some people have no imagination...

To be clear: I'd rather have a Revolution - I'll never buy a Microsoft console on principle and I'm not interested in the sort of stuff Sony puts out either, whereas I love Nintendo's style, attention to detail and sheer fun. But there are millions of people out there who feel differently.

Marketed right by Nintendo's competitors and with some alterations, something like this (not NOT this actual product) could leave the Revolution controller looking quite a bit less special - this light gun is a piece of technology that gets a modest proportion of the functionallity of the Revolution remote control and for FPS use it's probably the most interesting aspect - accurate weapon aim. It's clearly not expensive, it's not encumbered by any Nintendo IP so Sony or Microsoft are free implement it, the gun form factor probably appeals more to 12 year old boys compared to the TV remote style Revolution controller and nothing stops you using one of these in one hand and a one handed controller in the other.

[trip1eX]

It's just a lightgun man.  A lightgun for newer TVS.  How long have lightguns been around?  

[ThePerm]

if you pulled that gun on a cop he'd shoot you dead  

[thejeek]

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It's just a lightgun man. A lightgun for newer TVS. How long have lightguns been around?

Since forever admittedly... maybe I am getting too het up about this...

It's just there's been a lot of excitement about the Revmote in conjunction with FPSs and this kind of made me wonder just how much more it will give us - in the context of an FPS at least -  that a light gun wouldn't. Maybe I'm just trying to convince myself that the Revolution controller is less of a big deal so I don't go mad waiting to be able to buy one :-(

[KDR_11k]

Lightguns aren't very useful for FPSes, they're like a less accurate form of a touchscreen except you can only tap it. You couldn't use it for turning around and it'd lack accuracy compared to even analog stick aim. Never mind that autofire/charge wouldn't work.

[thejeek]

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Lightguns aren't very useful for FPSes, they're like a less accurate form of a touchscreen except you can only tap it. You couldn't use it for turning around and it'd lack accuracy compared to even analog stick aim. Never mind that autofire/charge wouldn't work.

Does it only track the gun when fired then rather than tracking it continuously then? The underlying tech can surely track it all the time? I suppose it would be a bit odd using it to look around though - perhaps it could scroll at the edge of the screen - but isn't the Revmote going to feel similarly odd when the game world rotates as you move it?

I've never felt that tying where you're looking to where you're shooting was ideal in an FPS but I guess that's a limitation of how many sticks human hands/brains can manage.

[zakkiel]

It only tracks whn firing because it has to do a frame comparison of the gun camera and the frame rendered by the console. I'm sure it would be extremely expensive in terms of processing power to do that continuously.

The only FPS control scheme demoed for the Rev yet doesn't keep the crosshairs centered; instead, the world rotates once the crosshairs reach the edge of the screen, and faster the farther you push past the screen.

[thejeek]

Ahhh! didn't realise that - that would pretty much rule it out then. Does traditional light gun technology with CRT televisions suffer from that? I thought they timed the progress of the beam from the top left corner of the screen.

The FPS control screen for the Rev described sounds OK provided they get a good balance between looking around and having the crosshairs follow the direction you're aiming in - getting it wrong could give some people motion sickness.

[trip1eX]

Like you said light gun tech has been around forever.  And so I figure Nintendo would have gone with strict light gun technology if it served their controller better.  But they didn't so I'd guess what they have is alot more precise and accurate and  smooth and doesn't have the problems associated with light gun technology.  I don't know what those problems are, but I'm sure there's a reason the (light gun)technology hasn't made it's way into more games.  

[Ian Sane]

"But does the average EA buying gamer in the street really care? After all it looks like one of the major perceived advantages of the Rev remote outside Japan is the ability to improve FPS's and, frankly, a light gun would go a long way towards improving the experience compared to a typical console analog stick."

Lightgun games and first person shooters co-existed in the mid to late 90s and there really was never the idea that a lightgun was a suitable replacement.  If you think about it lightgun games have always been "first person shooters" in a loose sense: they're first person and they involve shootings.  But an FPS is more than just shooting stuff so it's not comparable.

I've never used the Rev remote but I'm going to assume it has more advanced options than a lightgun.  A lightgun is just a pointer.  I assume the remote is more advanced then that.  For example if I rotated a lightgun while keeping it pointed at the same place the game wouldn't notice I did anything different.  I assume the remote can detect rotation like that.  With a lightgun you have to point at the screen for it to notice anything.  I assume that if I point the remote perpendicular to the TV screen the Rev can tell that and then if I swing it from one side to the other it knows as well.  If the remote is no different than a light gun then the remote sucks.  It just HAS to be better than that.  I have my doubts about it but I don't think Nintendo would make something THAT lame.  

[thejeek]

I really hope it will be better in actual use than a light gun and it clearly has more degrees of freedom in a technical sense - I guess we'll just have to wait and see if it turns out to be better from a gaming sense - I'm definitely playing Devil's Avocate here and I hope to be proved wrong in the long run

[IceCold]

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For example if I rotated a lightgun while keeping it pointed at the same place the game wouldn't notice I did anything different. I assume the remote can detect rotation like that. With a lightgun you have to point at the screen for it to notice anything. I assume that if I point the remote perpendicular to the TV screen the Rev can tell that and then if I swing it from one side to the other it knows as well. If the remote is no different than a light gun then the remote sucks. It just HAS to be better than that. I have my doubts about it but I don't think Nintendo would make something THAT lame

Have you read any one of the numerous impressions of the tech demos using the NRC available on the Internet?

[Epitaph]

If you have ever played a fps on your computer with the keyboard mouse set up its amazing. The rev will be able to pull of a very similar feel but more polished in my opinion. Center targeting with the whole screen moving to where you point would be sweet.