Topic: Iwata Talks DS Online, Hot-spot Details

[Ian Sane]

I just thought of something.  Currently at my house there are two computers connected to the internet and we use a wired router.  If I had to buy a wireless router for Nintendo Online how does that affect those computers?  Do I need wireless network cards for them as well?  Is it possible to have everything else still connected with wires while having a wireless router for Nintendo and if so can they work at the same time so I don't have to shut down the rest of the family's internet access just to play a game?  I seriously don't know how this all works but it sounds like potentially the cost could be more than just "an extra 10 bucks" (which only applies if I already am buying a router which I'm not).

[KnowsNothing]

I'm pretty sure you'll be fine, Ian.  Worst case is that you'll need to buy only one USB network adapter (since one computer will be directly connected to the router), which may set you back another $20.

[PaLaDiN]

I'm sorry Ian, remind me again... how can you justify paying for Xbox Live but not a wireless router?

[Ian Sane]

I was comparing Xbox Live to the worst possible case scenario of most third parties charging for each of their online games so you end up paying the same as Xbox Live for each game.  I don't want to pay for Xbox Live but if I had to pay I would rather pay once for everything then get charged around that same amount for each game.  It's unrelated to the wireless router issue.

[Mr. Segali]

Lots of wireless routers out there can also act as regular wired routers with like 4 ethernet jacks. So you should be fine. You might have to spring for an extra ethernet cable if the new router doesn't come with one.

[Arbok]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I was comparing Xbox Live to the worst possible case scenario of most third parties charging for each of their online games so you end up paying the same as Xbox Live for each game.  I don't want to pay for Xbox Live but if I had to pay I would rather pay once for everything then get charged around that same amount for each game.

I don't know about anyone else, but I will be damned if I pay to play any game online... Blizzard has pretty much spoiled me in terms of my stance on this, and it's also why I didn't get World of Warcraft. If Nintendo's games are the only ones that are free to play online, then those will likely be the only ones I will play, although I don't expect that will be the case here.  

[kennyb27]

Quote
Originally posted by: Mr. Segali
Lots of wireless routers out there can also act as regular wired routers with like 4 ethernet jacks. So you should be fine.

I'm pretty sure that this is very commonplace now, so, Ian, you should be fine.

[nickmitch]

Only money hungry 3rd parties will charge.

[TheYoungerPlumber]

Wow Ian, it makes perfect sense that you're rambling on about wireless vs wired when you don't even know the nature of wireless routers.  I have NEVER seen a wireless router that didn't include at least four WIRED ports, so you'd just buy a wireless router and put in place of your old wired-only router.

Also, I would REALLY like it if you stopped complaining about the Revolution "not having an ethernet port" until Nintendo says it doesn't have one.  It likely will not have a ethernet port, since that would cost extra, but Nintendo cares about ease of use enough to consider the extra cost.  We've heard you say the same thing way to many times when you have no reason to complain yet.

[MarioAllStar]

If we're talking about the DS here, the wireless vs. wired debate is futile. There is no way that you are going to plug in a DS to an ethernet cable.

If we're talking about the Revoltion, it is still useless. We don't know a thing about the console and here you are complaining about Nintendo forcing you to abandon your wired router. It's crazy!

[gally]

I note that no-one has to "abandon" a wired router at all, if what you're all saying is true.

I too am tired of all this complaining. Legitimate complaints are one thing, and I have no problem with them. Someone has to make companies get their act together and give people what they want and/or need. But here Nintendo IS getting their act together, making internet built right into the box, with only a router being a possible expense, and yet there is still some complaining about that. Would you rather buy a modem like you did for the PS2 or GC?

Speaking for myself, I'm pretty damn satisfied with what Nintendo is saying so far. Hell, they have their own online network that they're working on. Not even Sony did that, or appears to be doing that (far as I know).

[ThePerm]

and with thew possibility that the whole console will be wireless(ie the controllers too) nintendo will save some money by not including those porrs and be able to include an ethernet port.

[BigJim]

Wow, so many concerns.

Granted, I already have a wireless router so I am basically all set, but if you don't have one, you can get one for the cost of a DS game.

Yes it would be ideal if wired and wireless were both an option, but really the cost of switching to wireless isn't that great. If you're waiting for Revolution's online games, at least you know that you have at least a year and a half to dig up the $30 extra for a wireless router, if it doesn't include an ethernet port.

Frankly, as a side note, the wireless technology is more expensive than a physical port. The cost of an ethernet port is negligible if you're already incorporating networking capability. Not including a port would be more of a design choice, not so much a cost concern. But I digress.

Re: wired and wireless routers.

As others mentioned, and as you can see in the link above, most wireless routers also include wired ports, so you can keep your devices wired if you wish.

Setting up a wireless router is not much different from a wired one. The biggest difference is that you connect wireless routers and devices together using an encryption "key" that you create. This makes it secure. Once it's set up, you don't have to fuss with it again. It's an extra step, but fairly simple.

[ShyGuy]

I think Nintendo is being horribly biased against people who are on dialup....  

[Grant10k]

I don't think many developers will charge to play their games. With PC games, hardly anyone charges for you to use online, unless it requires them to hold everyone's information on their own servers (MMORPGS) I would think that for matchmaking services, they'll just do what they do with pc's, use onlineness to sell the game, not turn people away from it. If I see two games on the shelf, and one pays for online and one doesn't and one is made by EA, then i'll choose the one without online fees.

Also, I wonder if the home configuration for routers (setting WAP keys, picking YOUR router instead of your close neighbor's, stuff like that.) will be saved per game, or in the DS itself? Will I have to set my secure network security key ("alpha0003") in every game or will online games come with some sort of firmware upgrade.

[Mario]

This is too confusing... it fails.

[Nephilim]

who says rev wont have cable for those who dont have wireless?
I think people are jumping the boat to early
Iv said it before and I will say it again, will only cost them 20cents to make a cord to run from rev to a router.

[ruby_onix]

I think I'm going to have to side with Ian on this one.

It's good that Nintendo's excited about Wi-Fi for the DS. Wi-Fi is right for it. I don't want a cat-5 cable hanging out of my DS, whether I'm playing at home or not.

However, I do hope that this excitement about Wi-Fi doesn't carry over to the Revolution, to the point where Nintendo excludes wired connections to the Rev, just because Nintendo (like some of you) seems to have developed a pointless infatuation with going wireless purely for the sake of going wireless.

Right now the only benefit that I can see the Rev getting out of Wi-Fi is the DS/Rev connectivity (which, like what I said earlier, needs to be wireless). That and, it caters to those people who already have wireless networks and are opposed to running cat-5 lines through their walls.

That's not a big enough reason for Nintendo to botch the Revolution's internet strategy by pointlessly telling the people who don't have laptops/handhelds that they have to go and "update" their network to a wireless one, or else take a hike.

(BTW, I got my wired router for $10 Canadian a couple years ago.)

[TheYoungerPlumber]

Quote
Originally posted by: BigJim
Wow, so many concerns.
Frankly, as a side note, the wireless technology is more expensive than a physical port. The cost of an ethernet port is negligible if you're already incorporating networking capability. Not including a port would be more of a design choice, not so much a cost concern. But I digress.

See, normally I'd agree with you, but if Nintendo rereleased their system with its progressive scan port removed to cut down costs, they could just as easily do the same for a wired port (heck, they'd probably save MORE money).  But now I'm starting to sound like Ian--I think Nintendo recognizes that not everyone has broadband, let alone wireless, and will act accordingly.

[BigJim]

Quote
Originally posted by: TheYoungerPlumber

Quote
Originally posted by: BigJim
Wow, so many concerns.
Frankly, as a side note, the wireless technology is more expensive than a physical port. The cost of an ethernet port is negligible if you're already incorporating networking capability. Not including a port would be more of a design choice, not so much a cost concern. But I digress.

See, normally I'd agree with you, but if Nintendo rereleased their system with its progressive scan port removed to cut down costs, they could just as easily do the same for a wired port (heck, they'd probably save MORE money).  But now I'm starting to sound like Ian--I think Nintendo recognizes that not everyone has broadband, let alone wireless, and will act accordingly.

Does anybody know where there is a picture of the newer GameCube's motherboard? Though I don't know it for fact, I tend to suspect it wasn't just a removal of the port to cut costs. Component video rendering could have been removed from the consolidated hardware, for example.  Or possibly since Nintendo was creating a new budget model anyway, and while the port didn't add much to the cost, the sales of component cables rendered it mostly useless and stripped it just because they could.

Nonetheless, I understand what you're saying.  

[Ian Sane]

"if Nintendo rereleased their system with its progressive scan port removed to cut down costs, they could just as easily do the same for a wired port"

That actually could be an okay solution.  Wireless isn't very widespread right now so for the first few years they could include the wired port.  Then later when they want to cut costs and wireless has become more widespread they can drop the wired port like they dropped the progressive scan port.  It's not perfect but it's a much more flexible solution.

[Michael8983]

Anyone think it's possible Nintendo might make its own wireless adapter and maybe even bundle it with a game like Animal Crossing. That would make it much more accessible to casual and non-techy gamers. It can't seriously expect them to just go to a computer store and shop around for one. They wouldn't even know what to ask for. It's great that Nintendo will allow the DS to work with existing adapters but it seriously needs to package its own if this thing is going to take off.

[KDR_11k]

I'd try to avoid WiFi where possible. Why? Well, security issues. It's much easier to sniff your data out of the air than out of some cable in the ground. If you log into anything with WiFi your login data could possibly be intercepted. That's why Sega warns you not to input your PSO data with a wavebird, people could sniff your signals and know what you input.

[Tuxedo.Bond]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
It seems the best arguement for justifying wireless-only is "I'm already wireless so I don't care."  That's not a valid arguement.  I'm asking for both options so if you already have internet access you don't have to buy anything.

Wireless is better than having cables going everywhere but that's no justification for wireless only.  Component and S-Video are better than the standard composite A/V cables but that doesn't mean that the Rev shouldn't be able to use standard A/V cables.  There's nothing wrong with having options even if one option is clearly "inferior".

I can afford a wireless router and I probably would buy one if I had to but obviously I would rather not have to buy something if there was no legitimate excuse for being forced to.

You have it wrong, you do not need to acquire a wireless router if you already have a wired one. You only need an Access Point, which connects to an RJ-45 input jack on your router or switch connected to it, and it provides wireless network access for you devices. Although, Access Points cost about as much as a wireless router of the same caliber. So, if you get a Wi-Fi router, and want to use it as an Access Point, you will need to disable some stuff, which non-techy people may have trouble doing, so it would be easiest to just get an Access Point.