Topic: the ghost of the n64DD

[ThePerm]

with 512mb of flash memory with the ability to use sd cards do you think the n64dd could be reborn into the revoltuin. There were a ton of cool ideas for 64dd.

stage debut..the idea you could use created charcters in any game...

zelda with extra dungeons.

episodic games

further customization

caching....

[Truthliesn1seyes]

At once, I thought that was Nintendo's reasoning behind adding a HD in their upcomming system.  Using the flash memory is no different though and I too believe they are going to use it (or some of it) for these purposes.  I remember them talking about Earthbound 64 where the world was constantly living.  A world where you can plant a seed then over time, see the tree grow in the same spot.  It was almost, a fully interactive world.  Anyways, I believe they'll dabble a bit with that flash memory.  The 64DD was more an experament than anything else.  They just wanted to test it out and see what worked and what didn't.  

IMO, the Rev is going to be the culmination of 20 yrs of R&D for Nintendo.  They are implementing online in a full scale this time, which they have played around with since the famicon era.  Now this upgradeable flash memory seems to be the result of their time with the 64DD.  

[OptimusPrime]

I have been thinking the same 64DD connection. Nintendo had games and ideas ready that Peter "it's a complete free world....no really" Molyneux could never have thaught about and those were meant for the N64.

It's also sad that no one really used the Xbox hardrive in that fashion. Nintendo probably has to show everyone how its done...again.

I remember that 64DD version of F-zero had a create-a-track mode and a online mode for 30 human players with a 56k modem...and it worked fine too. Just that prospect has this little voice in my head saying "what in blazes are those people at EAD cooking up".

[Terranigma Freak]

The 64DD was a brilliant idea, but badly executed. I'd love to see it reborn on the Revolution. BTW, they also said the everyone in Earthbound 64 would start in completely different places. Not sure how it'll work though, guess we'll never know.

[Darkheart]

if they EVER do this i was Mario Paint 64. . .  to this day i still animate on my Super Nintendo with the original, lol it would be nice to upgrade!!

[Truthliesn1seyes]

I googled up 64DD to get some more info on it and found a good site with a healthy amount of info.

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Nintendo promised RPG’s where no game would be the same and vast stats could be saved. Online networks and possible play was boasted. Killer apps such as Ura-Zelda (other Zelda in Japanese) which changed Zelda around, Mario64 2, Super Mario RPG2, DK64, Mother 3/Earthbound 2 and many other titles were announced.

I too remember hearing of Nintendo's proimises for Earthbound 2.  They were making claims that the world would constantly be changing.  Whatever you did in the game world would be remembered.  If you planted a seed, over time, a tree would grow in that spot.  It was to be a fully interactive, living, gaming world.

Quote
RandnetDD Service

At first the 64DD was sold by subscription only, so you had to sign up for the Randnet service, however later on another version was released which didn't include the service or any games. The only way you could order games was buying them on line. This is probably why 64DD games are so hard to find, notably "Kyojin no Doshin 2: Kaihou Sensen Chibikko Chikko" (Doshin the Giant 2), the last game released AFTER the announcement of Randnet Service shutting down and 64DD demise.

The network would allow gamers to hook up and read/write e-mail, read a special RandnetDD Nintendo newsletter, and chat. A 64DD keyboard released by Randnet in partnership with Nintendo was developed to ease the pain of writing e-mails and chatting with the RandnetDD software. Anyway, the main purpose of the network was to connect and play games on the net.

Doesn't this service sound a little familliar to what we've been hearing about the Rev's online service?

Quote
Some of the technology used in the 64 DD was used in other projects by Nintendo: the most notably one is the Voice Recognition System introduced the first time with the "Pikachu Genki Dechu" ("Hey you! Pikachu" for USA) game: originally planned as a 64DD game employing the Capture Cassette for a voice input, the game was later converted on cart and a new unit to connect the already present Microphone was developed.
Connecting to a controller port, the Voice recognition Unit basically does the same as the Capture Cassette. The game itself is suited for kids under 12 (as stated on the box) and allows you to play with a voice-controlled Pikachu.

http://www.64dd.net/index.php?page=4008

This quote starts to sound a little bit like the early stages of what the famous Aries character spoke off.  Voice Recognition System.  If you had followed the Aries sope opera, you'd remember that he made mention of the Rev using some high tech voice recognition system.  That's all speculation but its interesting to see that Nintendo at one time entertained the idea.

Anyways, the question I pose to everyone he is "Do you think Nintendo can bring back some of their 64DD ideas, gameplay amonth others, to the next gen Rev with the inclusion of the 512 mb of flash memory?"  I'm not a tech savvy individual so I can't really put in my 2 cents on how this flash memory can be used outside of storing information.

If you want more info on the 64DD, the site I got these quotes from is
http://www.64dd.net/index.php

EDIT:  On a side note, go to the url I just gave, look at the video for Mini Racers for the 64DD.  OMFG, I had completely forgotten about that game.  Tell me that wouldn't be the perfect game for wifi play on the DS.  They also got videos of a good looking soccer game, some game called jest, Riga, and 12 Tales: Conker 64 (Conker before he got all bad ass lol).

[couchmonkey]

I'm sure Nintendo will implement some of it's old ideas on Rev, although I'd be a little more comfortable about it if the storage space were a bit larger.  I'd love to be able to create textures to go on objects in my games, for instance, but if I'm making lots of high-res ones, I could fill up that 512 MB pretty fast.  Still looking forward to it, though.

[Truthliesn1seyes]

It would be interesting if Nintendo would alow you to save some info on your PC's HD.  The Rev is supposed to be able to connect to a computer and some have made mention that it'll be possible through the usb port.

[Ian Sane]

The ideal thing I would want to see is a track editor for F-Zero.  The fact that they did not include such a feature in F-Zero GX really irked me.  The game was still great but the lack of that feature was a pretty big omission in my opinion.  Naturally such functionality would translate well to Mario Kart as well.  With Mario Kart DS being the first online Mario Kart game a track editor would be good for the Rev version to justify its existence.  Without something like that we would pretty much be getting Mario Kart DS... on a console.

[BiLdItUp1]

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It would be interesting if Nintendo would alow you to save some info on your PC's HD.

Damn straight...and it wouldn't even have to utilize USB for it, it could be done over Wi-Fi to my PC's HDD. That would be a killer feature if it could be implemented...but it would be difficult, and not user friendly to set up. And it's Nintendo, so the whole thing is wishful thinking. It would cut into accessory sales, too much work for dumb ppl, etc. etc....still...its tantamount to using an unlimited amount of space (all my hdd's that are connected to the network) for absolutely nothing...

I got another idea - maybe you could save your games online, and then access them from anywhere! It doesn't solve size issues, but it would still be cool feature...stlll, it's Nintendo, and its therefore not happening...

[nemo_83]

I think not putting, even a small HD, into the REV as standard is going to come back and bite Nintendo on the ass.  People have come accustomed to not need memory cards to make saves (and if this system is so comunicable with other REVs and its so portable why can't we just carry the system with the internal HD to friends' houses rather than memory cards).  How are we going to save all those old games we download without a HD?  The flash memory doesn't compare to how large a world you can load up at once with a harddrive.  I really don't know why they are not using a harddrive.  If downloads, customizing, and general saves are all made on SD cards then we are going to end up buying gigs of SD cards.  They might as well package in the harddrive.  Last time I checked SD cards were still expensive.

Worst of all Sony and MS are releasing harddrives next gen.  How does Nintendo expect to look like they are competing for the gamers when they won't match the gaming related hardware in the competing systems?  How can Nintendo be the ones to introduce so much ambition with the N64DD and then never follow through with a piece of hardware that can realize those ambitions.  I am still waiting to make custom tracks on Fzero.

This is just like the way the REV doesn't have a physical cable internet port.  These stupid decisions are going to be the arrogant "mistakes" people are going to be arguing over in four years.  Like how the Cube looks like a lunchbox, has no harddrive, has no online software support, and connectivity was never realised because Nintendo tried to use it to sell GBAs rather than sell Cubes.  

[Spak-Spang]

I still think memory cards are the way to go.  I don't want to carry my system anywhere unless I have to.  However, with smart programming a 500MB card would be enough re-writable information to do anything you want in a game.  One 500MB Card could be completely devoted to NES/SNES/N64 games pretty easily.  Yeah, eventually you would have to get another card, but not for awhile.  

However, the benefits of these cards are high capacity memory cards.  I could take the world whereever I go.  The cards could also hook up to your PC computer, and much more.

As cool as a harddrive is, I really don't think its the complete answer.

[Ian Sane]

"People have come accustomed to not need memory cards to make saves"

How so?  The PS2 is the clear market leader and it uses memory cards.  The Xbox obviously was pretty popular but the majority of gamers are still using memory cards.

Though I am surprised that Nintendo isn't going with a HD mostly because it was very heavily rumoured that they would.  The ideal setup for a console is to have some sort of internal storage so you don't have to buy anything to save with the option of memory cards to provide that extra flexibility of bringing your save to someone else's house or backing up your save files.

The fact that the competitors are not offering it as a standard means it's not make or break yet.  It's hard to say.  I think that all three consoles should have one and we're going backwards by making it optional.  The important thing is that Nintendo has to have enough storage for game saves.  If they don't it will be a problem.  If they do how it's technically done isn't that big of deal.  Since no console is coming with a standard hard drive we don't have to worry about developers making games that specifically require huge save space.  If it doesn't come with the console 99% of the games made won't even use it.

[ThePerm]

i have an sd card reader for my computer..simply put coulndt i just stick the sd card in my reader and save my saves onto my computer?  

[Chode2234]

Im sure someone will hack up some software where you can at least back up and save files on your SD cards.

[Edisim]

hey, imagine for a second if nintendo's next true gameboy succesor could read these same SD cards... and were wi-fi enabled... you could potentially be playing a game on your rev, then do a real-time save, pop that card into your gameboy, and pick up right where you left off as you're waiting for a bus or a gf or during your lunchhour... obviously, the next gameboy probably won't be powerful enough (or the 512mb card big enough) to realistically transfer and run an entire game world, but it could possibly work with one or two levels--at least the level/world that you're currently in...
i think iwata or someone said something about being able to seamlessly play the same game on DS and rev in this way...

actually, even if you couldn't download a level to the SD card, it would be cool if you could download the game music to the card, and then stick the card into your mp3 player...

or maybe the SD card gives nongamers a reason to use/own a rev (ok, i'm obsessed with nintendo's nongamer strategy)... maybe since the REV is wi-fi/internet enabled, the SD card can be used to store bookmarks, emails, and other bs for nongamers... it would be like the harddrive needed for their internet/email crap. and the rev could be their quiet, affordable, (what was the third thing) console that nongamers could have a reason to own...
heh. Reggie's comment about what kind of device/controller can play nes/snes/n64 games.. a keyboard (emulators) comes to mind.

hell, with an SD card reader built-in, the REV could even function as an easy way to display pictures and movies taken on digital cameras( that use SD cards as the medium) on your tv...


...as far gaming functions using an SD card, i have no ideas... aside from saving pictures of your face onto the card using a digital camera and then using that image in a game... and of course, simply being able to supply your own soundtrack to a game (the way xbox does... or was that quake or unreal that let you do that?).

[KnowsNothing]

Edisim: I had a similar idea a while back, except with the DS, since it already used flash memory.  I think it'd be rad if we could download an NES or SNES game form the Rev to our DS, or just stick in the SD card, or whatever.  Yeah.

[KDR_11k]

That "Buy the same game twice, move your saves between them" connectivity idea was one of the ideas Sony had for the PSP. I don't think they actually implemented it...

[Don'tHate742]

Except this time you wouldn't have to buy the same game twice.

[nickmitch]

Well if you can download a SNES game for free and then transfer it to your DS then you're not buying the game at all.
Beat THAT, Sony!

[hudsonhawk]

Quote
Originally posted by: nemo_83
I think not putting, even a small HD, into the REV as standard is going to come back and bite Nintendo on the ass.

I completely disagree.  For starters, this is probably an issue of cost.  Traditionally, consoles become cheaper to manufacture as time goes on; Microsoft learned the hard way that, in terms of hardware, there's one thing this formula doesn't apply to - hard disks.  Hard disks just get bigger as technology advances, they don't get cheaper.  The hard drive was the main reason why the Xbox hemorraged money as badly as it did - as the price of the Xbox dropped, the loss on each console sale increased.   Flash memory, on the other hand, keeps getting cheaper and cheaper.

That said, I think that 512 MB of non-volatile memory will go a lot further than you realize.  I haven't used anywhere near that much space on my Xbox, and I've had it for almost a year of steady use (including KOTOR, whose save files are notoriously huge).  The only thing that eats up more memory than that on the Xbox is if you rip music to it, and that feature has never really appealed to me.  

[WesDawg]

Harddrives don't get cheaper? I remember paying $200 for a 40MB harddrive back in the 80's. They get cheaper constantly. You can get a 200GB one now for what a 40GB one cost in 2000.

Nintendo is putting a small harddrive in the REV I thought? Some sort of 500MB of flash memory which is essentially the same sort of thing, perhaps less suceptable to breaking during transit.

[Shecky]

Hard drives do get cheaper, they also tend to "bottom out" and then increase in cost as producers phase out certain sizes.... It's actually not cost effective to buy the smallest drive you can get your hands on.  For example, at one point you could pay the same amount for a 40GB drive as you would an 80GB one. (or maybe a $10 difference, but not substantial)

IIRC, the XBox actually employed this fact and some units caried drives that were technically larger than what the system was supposed to come with.

[hudsonhawk]

Quote
Originally posted by: WesDawg
Harddrives don't get cheaper? I remember paying $200 for a 40MB harddrive back in the 80's. They get cheaper constantly. You can get a 200GB one now for what a 40GB one cost in 2000.

Right... therefore, hard drives don't get cheaper, they get bigger.

They have a pretty fixed price; just because 500GB hard drives came out doesn't mean that the 100GB hard drives are cheaper to manufacture.  I can't go out and buy a brand new 40 MB hard drive for $5... if I'm buying a new hard drive, I'm stuck with whatever the current size available is at that magic, fixed price that hard drives always seem to be.

[ThePerm]

what was the pricing for 64dd disks? $20?...i rem,ember it was real cheap..what if other than sd cards there is also a proprietary format?