Topic: Nvidia on PS3

[nemo_83]

in case you didn't already know it, Nvidia is doing the GPU for PS3

if you want to see graphics click here http://cloudchaser.com/showthread.php?t=119488

Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. and NVIDIA Announce Joint GPU Development for SCEI's Next-Generation Computer Entertainment System
Tuesday December 7, 3:11 am ET


TOKYO and SANTA CLARA, Calif., Dec. 7 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. (SCEI) and NVIDIA Corporation (Nasdaq: NVDA - News) today announced that the companies have been collaborating on bringing advanced graphics technology and computer entertainment technology to SCEI's highly anticipated next-generation computer entertainment system. Both companies are jointly developing a custom graphics processing unit (GPU) incorporating NVIDIA's next-generation GeForce(TM) and SCEI's system solutions for next-generation computer entertainment systems featuring the Cell* processor.
(Logo: http://www.newscom.com/cgi-bin/prnh/20020613/NVDALOGO http://www.newscom.com/cgi-bin/prnh/20041207/SFTU096 )
This collaboration is made under a broad, multi-year, royalty-bearing agreement. The powerful custom GPU will be the graphics and image processing foundation for a broad range of applications from computer entertainment to broadband applications. The agreement will encompass future Sony digital consumer electronics products.

"In the future, the experience of computer entertainment systems and broadband-ready PCs will be fused together to generate and transfer multi-streams of rich content simultaneously. In this sense, we have found the best way to integrate the state-of-the-art technologies from NVIDIA and SCEI," said Ken Kutaragi, executive deputy president and COO, Sony Corporation, and president and Group CEO, Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. "Our collaboration includes not only the chip development but also a variety of graphics development tools and middleware, essential for efficient content creation."

"We are thrilled to partner with Sony Computer Entertainment to build what will certainly be one of the most important computer entertainment and digital media platforms of the twenty-first century," added Jen-Hsun Huang, president and CEO, NVIDIA. "Over the past two years NVIDIA has worked closely with Sony Computer Entertainment on their next-generation computer entertainment system. In parallel, we have been designing our next-generation GeForce GPU. The combination of the revolutionary Cell processor and NVIDIA's graphics technologies will enable the creation of breathtaking imagery that will surprise and captivate consumers."

The custom GPU will be manufactured at Sony Group's Nagasaki Fab2 as well as OTSS (joint fabrication facility of Toshiba and Sony).

Note:

"Cell" is the code-name for an advanced microprocessor under development by IBM, Toshiba and Sony Group.
About Sony Computer Entertainment Inc.

Recognized as the global leader and company responsible for the progression of consumer-based computer entertainment, Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. (SCEI) manufacturers, distributes and markets the PlayStation® game console and PlayStation®2 computer entertainment system. PlayStation has revolutionized home entertainment by introducing advanced 3D graphic processing, and PlayStation 2 further enhances the PlayStation legacy as the core of home networked entertainment. SCEI, along with its subsidiary divisions Sony Computer Entertainment America Inc., Sony Computer Entertainment Europe Ltd., and Sony Computer Entertainment Korea Inc. develops, publishes, markets and distributes software, and manages the third party licensing programs for these two platforms in the respective markets worldwide. Headquartered in Tokyo, Japan, Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. is an independent business unit of the Sony Group.

About NVIDIA

NVIDIA Corporation is a worldwide leader in graphics and digital media processors. The Company's products enhance the end-user experience on consumer and professional computing devices. NVIDIA graphics processing units (GPUs), media and communications processors (MCPs), and wireless media processors (WMPs) have broad market reach and are incorporated into a variety of platforms, including consumer and enterprise PCs, notebooks, workstations, PDAs, mobile phones, and video game consoles. NVIDIA is headquartered in Santa Clara, California and employs more than 2,000 people worldwide. For more information, visit the Company's Web site at www.nvidia.com.

Certain statements in this press release including, but not limited to, statements as to the development of the custom GPU, the benefits of the collaboration, the benefits, uses, and capabilities of the custom GPU and computer entertainment systems featuring the Cell processor, the fusion of computer entertainment systems and broadband systems, the agreement between the parties, and the manufacture of the custom GPU are forward-looking statements that are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause results to be materially different than expectations. Such risks and uncertainties include, but are not limited to whether SCEI and NVIDIA continue the collaboration, whether SCEI continues to use the NVIDIA custom GPU as the foundation for a broad range of its applications, market acceptance of SCEI's next-generation computer entertainment system,, market acceptance of new products and technology, delays in ramping new products into production, manufacturing delays and defects, incompatibility of technologies, reliance on third-party manufacturers, general industry trends including cyclical trends in the semiconductor market, delays in integration of our products, the impact of competitive products and pricing alternatives, and other risks detailed from time to time in the NVIDIA reports filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission including its Form 10-Q for the quarter ended October 24, 2004. These forward-looking statements speak only as of the date hereof. NVIDIA disclaims any obligation to update these forward-looking statements.

NOTE: All company and/or product names may be trade names, trademarks and/or registered trademarks of the respective owners with which they are associated. Features, pricing, availability, and specifications are subject to change without notice.  

[kennyb27]

About those screens that EA is said to have released for Madden.  I guess they won't be putting in player-specific faces in the game, because that is not Donovan McNabb's face (Eagles jersey--the green one--number 5).  Either that or these images are fakes.

[KDR_11k]

I'm with the reports that claim the Cell won't be in the PS3. After all, the point of the Cell was that all processors would be equal but NVidia doesn't make general purpose processors. Having two types of processors in the system would make the Cell system pointless.

EDIT: Oh and someone from IBM said they're going to give Sony and MS the same CPUs for their next consoles so that's another hint.

[nemo_83]

Those pictures are most likely not going to be what the ingame stuff looks like.  I'm sure the polys will be lower than those pics and the lighting effects will be more dramatic and atmospheric.  When making next generation games I hope developers look back at what the impressionists taught us about light and color.  The 3d graphics and form are a given, what will seperate games from the pack visually will be lighting.  Which sort of raises the question of will these next gen systems' chips do all of the lighting work automatically for the developers leaving nothing for them to worry about but the 3d models, textures, bumpmapping, and animation as far as graphics go.  

Developers can't create perfect textures and 3d models but they can give the illusion that those models are real with real lighting.  

I think Sony is intent upon putting the Cell into PS3.  http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/12/03/news_6114419.html

Will it deliver?  Who knows?  Most likely if it does, it won't deliver truly until 08 or 09 because it's going to increase costs and time in development.

[KDR_11k]

Hardware T&L has been around for quite some time now so I'd expect the chips to do the lighting. Thing is, we're still using lambert/gouraud shading. That's in no way realistic since it doesn't account for rough surfaces or sub surface scattering. SSS is critical in archieving realistic looking skin (as opposed to skin that looks dead or like concrete). But coders don't worry about this, they're busy implementing ways to show more and more complex objects. Radiosity and SSS are the two main factors that will make a scene look realistic (in addition to good art, of course), moreso than normal maps, light blooming or HDRI will ever do. Developers CAN create perfect assets given enough time, models that look perfectly realistic. Thing is, you CANNOT get a realistic looking human without at least faking SSS.

EDIT: To prove the bit about "perfect realism": this is a tutorial by Darren Pattenden (aka EA's "proprietary face scan technology") on how to create a realistic looking human model and this is a tutorial by Steven Stahlberg detailling the shaders required for faking human skin. If we had renderers that could do all this stuff in realtime we'd be much closer to photorealism already.

[boggy b]

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
I'm with the reports that claim the Cell won't be in the PS3. After all, the point of the Cell was that all processors would be equal but NVidia doesn't make general purpose processors. Having two types of processors in the system would make the Cell system pointless.

EDIT: Oh and someone from IBM said they're going to give Sony and MS the same CPUs for their next consoles so that's another hint.

Cell is still on track for PS3. In fact, it is all but confirmed:

Quote
Will NVIDIA's GPU work be tied into the Cell architecture, or will it be a separate chip in the PS3?

David Roman: It will be a separate chip

http://gear.ign.com/articles/571/571598p1.html

I also read an interview with the CEO of nVidia that talked about the Cell, and he confirmed that it would be in the PS3, but it would only be the CPU, graphics calculations and rendering would be offloaded to the nVidia GPU.

My guess is that Sony originally planned to take the same approach with the PS3 as they did with PS2, and make all graphics calculations and rendering software based. However, after seeing how powerful this latest generation (NV40 and R420) are, and worried by reports that both next generation (R500 and NV50) will be twice to three times as powerful as this one and that Microsoft are getting a custom next-gen chip from ATi to power the Xenon (or XBox 2, if you want to call it that), they decided that Cell simply doesn't have the grunt to compete with a chip designed entirely for graphics. That's why they collaborated with nVidia.  

[KDR_11k]

Well, but if the Cell is doing the same as a normal CPU, isn't it kinda pointless? Clustering doesn't work unless you don't want interaction in your games, changing the chip's purpose on demand is pointless when there's only one purpose available. Sounds like Sony is again designing a system for marketing rather than usage.

[boggy b]

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Well, but if the Cell is doing the same as a normal CPU, isn't it kinda pointless? Clustering doesn't work unless you don't want interaction in your games, changing the chip's purpose on demand is pointless when there's only one purpose available. Sounds like Sony is again designing a system for marketing rather than usage.

From what I understand, STI are downplaying the cluster idea and are trying to make Cell as more of a modular chip. So, you would have a PS3 with a 4-core Cell CPU and a Cell workstation with several 8-core Cell CPUs, or whatever, with the cores all being the same (or very very similar) but different numbers per physical CPU. It makes perfect sense from a usage standpoint. There's no reason you would want a console in 2005 with as much power as a workstation, because you'd have to charge $2000 for it.

You have to remember, Sony are not the only company who can potentially benefit from Cell. IBM and Toshiba are both looking to exploit it. Although it's fun to pretend that Sony are some kind of mega-corporation that only want money at the expense of everything else, in many fields their technology will have to have additional functions and options or they simply will be out-sold. This is why Cell as a modular chip makes sense, whereas Cell as a cluster chip doesn't.

The 'broadband computing' idea was dropped a long time ago, just for the record. No more Sony PlayToaster  

[KDR_11k]

Yes but what do you need a modular chip for in a console? It makes scaling more easy but you're not going to scale a console as the hardware has to be identical. You don't need a flexible processor for a system that isn't going to change. Makes sense in servers, makes sense in workstations but doesn't make sense in consoles. Consoles can have highly specialzed hardware that couldn't even run a word processor properly and it won't matter. The only people who would care about the flexibility of your system are the modders.

[boggy b]

Quote
Yes but what do you need a modular chip for in a console? It makes scaling more easy but you're not going to scale a console as the hardware has to be identical. You don't need a flexible processor for a system that isn't going to change. Makes sense in servers, makes sense in workstations but doesn't make sense in consoles. Consoles can have highly specialzed hardware that couldn't even run a word processor properly and it won't matter. The only people who would care about the flexibility of your system are the modders.

Essentially because Sony, Toshiba and IBM have spent a crapload of money on Cell, and they want a decent use for it. The PS3 CPU will be for all intents and purpose a normal multicore CPU. However, CPUs with different numbers of the same cores will appear in workstations and over electronics devices. Also, don't forget that only the core is going to be the same; busses and  potentially caches (even though they're technically still part of the core) could potentially be different.

Which programs a CPU can run are entirely governed by the code, and nothing else. If someone wanted to, they could write a full-featured word processor for any of the consoles. There simply isn't a market for them.

By using the same CPU in a lot of different places, you keep costs as low as possible while simultaneously providing the most bang for your buck to the consumer.  

[kirby_killer_dedede]

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