Topic: off topic remarks about nintendo games that are no longer relevant.

[pokepal148]

even if SMB2 was not technically a mario game i'm kinda shocked that the NSMB games haven't brought back the veggies for something like this:

also on that subject...

Despite popular belief, there is evidence suggesting that Super Mario Bros. 2 was the true sequel to Super Mario Bros. Some time after the original game's completion, Nintendo's Kyoto-based R&D division began working on a vertical-scrolling Mario engine. It became clear early on that a vertical-scrolling game couldn't offer the same quality of platforming as the original Super Mario Bros. Shigeru Miyamoto then stepped in and added horizontally scrolling aspects to the game.

The prototype engine was originally designed around carrying, throwing, and piling up items and featured 2-player cooperative play, which even included the ability to throw other players to hard-to-reach places to progress further in the game. A deal with Fuji TV was struck during development, and the prototype eventually became Doki Doki Panic. Although cooperative play was dropped, the concepts of vertical scrolling and tossing around items to defeat enemies was incorporated into Doki Doki Panic, and in turn Super Mario Bros. 2.

intresting tidbit in my opinion

[alegoicoe]

Its funny how Nintendo is marketing Mario U multiplayer capabilities yet they decide not to include online multiplayer,  I guess inline multiplayer has become irrelevant for Nintendo.

[pokepal148]

Its funny how Nintendo is marketing Mario U multiplayer capabilities yet they decide not to include online multiplayer,  I guess inline multiplayer has become irrelevant for Nintendo.

to be fair multiplayer for that kind of game is extremely difficult compared to say a shooter or something.

[alegoicoe]

Its funny how Nintendo is marketing Mario U multiplayer capabilities yet they decide not to include online multiplayer,  I guess inline multiplayer has become irrelevant for Nintendo.

to be fair multiplayer for that kind of game is extremely difficult compared to say a shooter or something.

Come on man, the drop in/drop out feature can be easily implemented if Nintendo wanted to do it, I understand they are trying to rush that game in order to boost Wii U sales, but in turn in my perspective online multi-player could have been an even bigger system seller.

[Luigi Dude]

Come on man, the drop in/drop out feature can be easily implemented if Nintendo wanted to do it, I understand they are trying to rush that game in order to boost Wii U sales, but in turn in my perspective online multi-player could have been an even bigger system seller.

In a Mario Platformer, you can't afford any lag or else the games will be unplayable in the later levels were precise jumping is required.  This is why online multiplayer in Mario platformers is still a long ways off because these games just aren't doable online at the moment.

[Ymeegod]

"This is why online multiplayer in Mario platformers is still a long ways off because these games just aren't doable online at the moment."

--indie games have been doing MP platforming jumping for years not to mention Rayman Legends is going have Online MP, just Nintendo doesn't add online.  It's more of an Japanese thing where online MP isn't as big of a deal as Local MP. 

Really doesn't have to deal with netcode at all since that's really up to the end user. 

[Phil]

Yeah, in any kind of platformer, even the smallest amount of lag can screw things up considerably. LittleBigPlanet suffered from lag, but it didn't require the same amount of precision as a Mario game. That's why few platformers have online.


Rayman Legends will not have online multiplayer at all.

[Wah]

Just saying i hate lag...

[alegoicoe]

^cool pic

[Pixelated Pixies]

Is Startropics worth playing?
 
I really want Nintendo to release Earthbound on 3DS. That would be great.
 
I'm thinking about picking up a copy of Star Fox Adventure. I've heard terrible things, but I'm genuinely curious about that game.

[Ian Sane]

You ever play Zelda clones like Illusion of Gaia or Crystalis where everything just feels a little off and unpolished compared to Zelda?  That's what StarTropics is like, which is weird considering it's made by Nintendo so you figure they could do a Zelda ripoff right.  Star Fox Adventures is the same idea.  In theory I would figure that the Zelda formula is so good that I would also like the knock-offs as a way to get "more" Zelda but I don't.  I find I keep getting frustrated by how inferior they are to the real thing.  Zelda has made me an adventure game snob.

Any stigma on SMB2 for not being a "real" Mario game is getting hung up on a technicality.  It's like blowing off your stepfather who loves and cares for you in favour of your biological father who ditched you and your mother and is an alcoholic wreck just because he's your "real" father.  SMB2 is a much better sequel than Lost Levels and the platforming gameplay is worthy of the series.  It's still an exceptional platformer made by the same guys as SMB1.  Though I wish Nintendo would throw that gameplay into another Mario game.  It's like even they can't get over it's "illegitimacy".  I've love a 2D Mario game with the gameplay of SMW, with all the extra power-ups from SMB3 and elements from SMB2.  So if you jump on a Goomba he squashes flat but if you jump on a Shy Guy you stand on top and can throw him.  I'm sure both elements could mix in with no issue.  Oh and I want this with sprites of course!

[Ceric]

Crystalis isn't a Zelda Clone.  Zelda was never that infuriating. (I've beaten Crystalis back in the day if you ask)

[MagicCow64]

Is Startropics worth playing?
 
I really want Nintendo to release Earthbound on 3DS. That would be great.
 
I'm thinking about picking up a copy of Star Fox Adventure. I've heard terrible things, but I'm genuinely curious about that game.

Ian's pretty much right. I kind of regret buying Star Tropics. I didn't finish it, because it got too crazy hard in combination with extremely stiff controls. I dig it's vibe and all, but there's no way I'll ever finish it until it gets the Wii U save state upgrade. It wouldn't be a waste of money necessarily, but I'd wait.

Star Fox Adventures isn't worth bothering with at this point, unless you're just really curious about shitshows. The gameplay is super bland/underdeveloped. And it never stops feeling awkward and shoehorned that this is a "Starfox" game.

[Nemo]

Ian, I actually feel the opposite as you. I'm sick of Zelda clones that ARE Zelda. In other words, I feel like every Zelda game is still Ocarina of Time, pretty much - same formula, going about things in the same ways.

Therefor, I enjoy the knock-offs more than Zelda. They feel fresher and I don't know always know exactly what to expect from a different series.

Also, I really liked Crystalis (though I agree it doesn't have the polish of a Zelda game).

[pokepal148]

im currently continuing to replay pokemon heart gold/soul silver and barely beat the elite 4 (i was a bit underleveled and my team isn't the best typewise)

at this point i'm just trekking around kanto trying to train everyone up to around level 50 so i can steamroll the kanto gyms. my current team has a heavy weakness to rock and i'm considering switching ampharos out to counter that.

But i am absolutely amazed by how well they set up kanto in that game.

[alegoicoe]

im currently continuing to replay pokemon heart gold/soul silver and barely beat the elite 4 (i was a bit underleveled and my team isn't the best typewise)

at this point i'm just trekking around kanto trying to train everyone up to around level 50 so i can steamroll the kanto gyms. my current team has a heavy weakness to rock and i'm considering switching ampharos out to counter that.

But i am absolutely amazed by how well they set up kanto in that game.

Thats my favorite pokemon game aside from the original and the one inhave played the least of, I seriously have to go back to that game.

[MagicCow64]

My last experience with a Pokemon game was getting stomped by the final four in Gold so badly that I never picked up the game again. And I had the red Gyrados and everything!

[Stratos]

Red/Blue and Gold/Silver really were the heart and soul of the Pokemon series.

I logged the most hours in those games. Not sure which got more.

I lost steam in Heart Gold again. I had hoped to have beaten it by the time X/Y came out. I also never finished Black.

[nickmitch]

Gold/Silver had some pacing issues that carried over in the remakes. I remember the first time I played them and felt under-leveled the entire game. What ended up carrying me was two Pokemon that I level ground from eggs (so, level 1), and a team almost entirely designed to beat Lance. The remakes were better since you could get a larger variety in your teams/movesets. Also, I broadband internet existed everywhere I went, so I could reference Bulbapedia at all times.

[toddra]

Star Fox Adventures hate is undeserved. It mostly stems from sour grapes that Rare left Nintendo nothing more. When it was new people loved it, then the Rare thing happened and suddenly the game sucked, then people tried to go back and say all Rare games sucked and were over hyped.


Star Fox Adventures is a really great game don't listen to the haters. The ONLY complaint I had was the ending, which at the time was the prevailing complaint but then like I said the Rare **** happened and suddenly it was a terrible game. Is it worth playing now, depend, it is an early GameCube game so it hasn't aged that well, the graphics are okay for what they were trying to do but the game really looks dated. The gameplay is mostly alright, the shooter levels do feel tacked on but that shouldn't take away from an other wise great game. It does have a pretty engaging story, complex puzzle solving, and some intense boss fights. Where it really fails is the voice acting can be really awful at times, the story falls apart at the end and the shooter levels really should have been removed.

I think if it had stayed true to just being Dinosaur Island and left Fox and company out, or Rare would have never left Nintendo, people would hail it as a classic.



As for Crystalis, that game is a mess. It starts out great, then it falls apart quickly. It's not terrible but you have to really want to make progress or else you just end up giving up. That is true for a lot of those types of Nintendo NES games though.


Neutopia is a decent Zelda clone but it is on a system hardly anyone even knows about let alone has. I think it was on Virtual Console but I am not sure.

[NWR_insanolord]

Star Fox being shoehorned into it and the whole Rare situation may have magnified people's feelings toward the game, but Star Fox Adventures was never a good game. It wasn't a horrible game either, but it was thoroughly mediocre, with bland combat and the epitome of Rare's obsession with needless collecting.

[toddra]

I think you are remembering wrong dude, all the reviews of the game were excellent when it was released, it didn't start getting hate until after Rare started releasing games for Xbox. It even holds an 82 on Metacritic, far from mediocre. In fact it got mostly 9 and 10's during it's initial release. All of the negative reviews are after the fact. At the time the major complaint was the ending, some felt it ruined the whole game, and they never forgave it. That was magnified by the other stuff but it was hailed as a great game when it was new.

[pokepal148]

perhaps it has aged poorly then idk i haven't played it

[MagicCow64]

I didn't play Star Fox Adventures until it had already been out for four years or so, and regardless of the aesthetic problems resultant from the IP mash-up, the gameplay is completely uninteresting. It's not even complicated enough to be considered a proper Zelda clone. Parts of it feel unfinished, particularly toward the end. Rare had already lost its mojo at that point.

[toddra]

That is part of the problem hence why I said it hasn't aged well but when it was new it was a highly rated game and very well respected. Of course if you played it four years latter then chances are you had been exposed to superior games by then but in the early days of Gamecube it was one of the better games around.Even this sites own review states the same, it was a good game for its time but rated low for lastability/replay value. http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/review/3959 which further backs up what my point was, at the time it was heralded. The hate came latter. It is no different than Sega, at their peek they were a well respected company and the Genesis out sold the SNES up until Sega abandoned it and Nintendo took the lead, but history has been rewritten to make it look like Sega was always a damn joke and people tend to forget how awesome they were at one time.



To clarify I am not saying the game *is* a masterpeice but pointing out that it was at one time considered a great game. If one can keep that in mind and enjoy it for what it is they might be able to like it. But it does have flaws that by today's standards are hard to over look and the ending did ruin the rest of the game. That was my biggest complaint.