Topic: Wii U in Review (News & Rumor Consolidation)

[BlackNMild2k1]

The Secret Developers: Wii U - the inside story

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-secret-developers-wii-u-the-inside-story


Lots of incredibly interesting things about the early days of Project Cafe and the problems that some developers had during this pre-release time. It's a fairly long read with some tech mumbo jumbo (as per usual with Digital Foundry) but if you skim it you'll see some fairly incriminating stuff.


Nintendo is full of fucking idiots.

Having read most of that, I still am not sure why Nintendo is so worried about my electric bill, when if my bill was high, the last thing that is going to come to mind is "Turn off that PS3/4/XboxOne/Wii/U!! It's burning up all my electricity!!", it's not like it cost that much as if it were running on batteries or something. And I'm also not sure why they are so adamant about it being small and compact when it's supposed to sit on a shelf next to my TV.
If we aren't trying to shrink this thing down into a portable for the next generation, quit worrying about the size and power consumption so much. It doesn't really matter to anyone all that much.
It's not going anywhere, it's sitting on a shelf and it's plugged into the wall, you are focusing on the wrong things.

[Oblivion]

I almost feel like that's their go-to excuse when faced with that sort of inquiry.

[Adrock]

And I'm also not sure why they are so adamant about it being small and compact when it's supposed to sit on a shelf next to my TV. If we aren't trying to shrink this thing down into a portable for the next generation, quit worrying about the size and power consumption so much. It doesn't really matter to anyone all that much.

It does in Japan, at least more so than anywhere else. They practically live in cabinets.

I'm not saying I agree with it, but I believe their focus is making the most appropriate console for an average space-limited Japanese dwelling. Still, if it came down to it (not that it would ever be this simple), I think Japanese gamers would pick a more well-rounded console over one that's small and quiet.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Well I appreciate a more compact and energy efficient design, but it shouldn't be designed starting a target size and power level. They should start with the console they want to build and then whittle it down to what they can make.

Not say I want something the size of a HDD enclosure that uses 65 watts. What can we get in that range? Hmmm... can we make it faster... oh, not if we want to keep it that small... oh ok then.

They should say I want something that is pumping this [target render] at 1080p @ 60fps while also being able to download crap in the background, and have a constant video chat going on while tracking motion of at least 2 people. what do we need to make that happen.... ok, how small can we make that before it's crosses a cost efficiency issue?

But like Iwata said, he is basing all his decisions off of what would be good for Japan, the 3rd most important market for gaming. MS is doing just fine w/o Japan in the picture at all. Sony is doing even better with their focus not being on Japan whatsoever.

[Adrock]

But like Iwata said, he is basing all his decisions off of what would be good for Japan, the 3rd most important market for gaming.

Japan is the third most important for gaming but the most important for Nintendo. Such focus is still problematic and shortsighted however. First, Nintendo technically already has the Japanese games market cornered. No matter how popular their home console can be, it will always be less popular than their handheld. That's just the nature of Japan's gaming culture. Second, Nintendo's let's-worry-about-Japan-first-then-everywhere-else-later strategy is flawed in that they can't take (what's left of) Japan without the other markets. A company will naturally take the last vestiges of the Japanese games market by default by selling the most appealing global home console.

It may be beneficial for Nintendo to set up a hardware team in the West to build the successor to Wii U while the merged Japanese hardware team continues work on the successor to 3DS. Each team would better understand their respective markets. Nintendo's current hardware team knows how to build a successful handheld. A Western home console team (ideally) would be comprised of people with a Western mindset and be in constant contact with Western third parties. The key would be for each team to collaborate on the system software so that the handheld and home console feel connected. Having a unified online account system is something that shouldn't even be a conversation we're having today. Nintendo Network is a step in the right direction, but you know, get on that.

[BlackNMild2k1]

It may be beneficial for Nintendo to set up a hardware team in the West to build the successor to Wii U while the merged Japanese hardware team continues work on the successor to 3DS. Each team would better understand their respective markets. Nintendo's current hardware team knows how to build a successful handheld. A Western home console team (ideally) would be comprised of people with a Western mindset and be in constant contact with Western third parties. The key would be for each team to collaborate on the system software so that the handheld and home console feel connected. Having a unified online account system is something that shouldn't even be a conversation we're having today. Nintendo Network is a step in the right direction, but you know, get on that.

That's a horrible idea. Nintendo's consolidated R&D is needed to get the home console and handheld built with connectivity/unity in mind. I pointed out the problem with Nintendo's hardware process above; build the box for size, restrict it's power and then try to fill it with components.
That limits your options to expensive smaller and/or older style components,
They need to first come up with a capable machine that can do what they need it to, and then figure out how to miniaturize it. It being the size of 3 DVD and only 20 watts isnt' really important to anyone but Nintendo. The Wii could have been 3x the wattage and twice the size and it probably would have sold just as well if not better.

Putting the Handheld and Console together will be good on it's own. Changing the focus of the home console away from compact design and power consumption first and foremost, to one of the last concerns would be a huge step in the right direction.
Nintendo's other problem is hiring competent programmers that know what they are doing, or actually allowing the ones working with them (Google) actually do the programming, because like has said many times, Nintendo doesn't always need to reinvent the wheel, but they do need to use the best ones for their vehicle.

[Stratos]

I would love for Nintendo to team up with Google or Valve or even a different, similar company for their system development. Sadly a dream team like that seems less likely than the classic dream teams reuniting that brought us Super Mario RPG or Chrono Trigger.

[Adrock]

That's a horrible idea. Nintendo's consolidated R&D is needed to get the home console and handheld built with connectivity/unity in mind.

The key would be for each team to collaborate on the system software so that the handheld and home console feel connected. Having a unified online account system is something that shouldn't even be a conversation we're having today. Nintendo Network is a step in the right direction, but you know, get on that.

They don't need to be on the same team to do this. The problem with Nintendo's previous set-up is that their home console and handheld teams didn't work together at all. Of course, Nintendo doesn't need a Western hardware team to make a console that makes sense outside of Japan, but I think it would help. It's important for Nintendo to listen to Western developers for hardware they would want to make games for. Having that cultural divide isn't doing Nintendo any favors. It's like Nintendo's Japanese hardware team doesn't know why a small/quiet console isn't that important, even to Japanese homes. Give them games they want to play and they'll deal with it.

[BlackNMild2k1]

They can take western influence, but I just think their focus was on the wrong things.
It's more important to the brand for the 2 hardwares to work together, and that is done best if it's designed by the same team at the same time with that purpose in mind.

And they have already been working with Google in some capacity, we just don't see any fruits from that collaboration. NIntnedo could side-step this whole "Go Mobile/make a phone" thing, and just make the next Nintnedo OS a very heavily customized fork of Android that gives them access to the Google Play-like store (Think Nintendo's version of the Amazon App store) for certain apps and games, but leaves them in control for all their games. Developers would already be familiar with the base of OS and programming wouldn't need to be a complete relearning process, and they would have Googles resources for tech support. Now Dev are happy because they get the help then need when they need it and in a language they can understand (Google is global) atleast for the networking and OS related issues.

And while Nintendo is doing their joint hardware design, they need to keep their Western teams in the loop. They should know just as much and have as much input about the hardware as anyone else involved at Nintendo in Japan. There is no reason that a western 3rd party should contact NOA/NOE for help and then have to wait a week for a response because the local Nintendo doesn't know ANYTHING about the hardware. that is beyond ridiculous.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Big news coming from the Indie scene!?
https://mobile.twitter.com/TwoTribesGames/status/427585813195792385?screen_name=TwoTribesGames


Does Nintendo have a new Direct coming up soon?

[ShyGuy]

They are supposed to have a direct coming out end of January.

I have a theory: It's not new titles, but they are banding together to make a indie bundle retail release of there current eshop titles.

[Stratos]

Either that or Nintendo is looping these guys in as new 2nd/3rd party developers and throwing funding, resources and IPs to them to help raise the Wii's status... I know, I know, a pipe dream. But one can hope.

[ShyGuy]

Humble Wii U Bundle like they are speculating about over on at GAF  would definitely change the paradigm. There are game code options in the e-shop already, correct?

[Kytim89]

Nintendo should have paid some company like Valve to make customized emulators and a unified system account for the Wii U and 3DS.  Make them highly customizable for future Nintendo consoles. Nintendo should have the entire library up on the service by six months.

[Oblivion]

dude stahp

[BlackNMild2k1]

They are supposed to have a direct coming out end of January.

I have a theory: It's not new titles, but they are banding together to make a indie bundle retail release of there current eshop titles.

Winer winner chicken dinner. Congratulations, it was a sale!!!
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=758786

With the Super Indie Connection Sale you can save 60% on selected independent games -- but only until 13/02/2014 and only on Nintendo eShop for your Wii U! The developers of the five participating games love each other's games so much, they're offering you their own game at 60% off the regular Nintendo eShop price if you have already downloaded any of the other four games on your Wii U! If you haven't downloaded any of the participating games yet, you can also buy one from Nintendo eShop on your Wii U during the Super Indie Connection Sale to be able to get the discount on the other games.

Giana Sisters: Twisted Dreams (Black Forest Games) - €5.99/£5.19 (normally €14.99/£12.99)
Mighty Switch Force! Hyper Drive Edition (WayForward) - €3.99/£3.59 (normally €9.99/£8.99)
BIT.TRIP Presents... Runner2: Future Legend of Rhythm Alien (Gaijin Games) - €4.79/£3.99 (normally €11.99/£9.99)
Spin the Bottle: Bumpie's Party (Knapnok Games) - €2.79/£2.39 (normally €6.99/£5.99)
Toki Tori 2+ (Two Tribes Publishing) - €5.99/£5.19 (normally €14.99/£12.99)

[azeke]

Buy Toki Tori 2, guys, sale or not -- one of the best puzzle games i ever played.

I did play FEZ and Swapper this week, and for all acclaim these titles got Toki Tori 2 was even better.

[MagicCow64]

Buy Toki Tori 2, guys, sale or not -- one of the best puzzle games i ever played.

I did play FEZ and Swapper this week, and for all acclaim these titles got Toki Tori 2 was even better.

Yeah, Toki Tori 2 became a surprise best-game-of-its-genre after I had next to no expectations for it.

Looks like I'll finally pick up Mighty Switch Force if this sale hits the states.

[Ian Sane]

Going back to Nintendo's priority with saving energy and making a small system, those aren't necessarily bad things to aim for but what is the trade-off to the consumer?  Is this worth losing out on significant third party support or taking a major hit to the graphics?  I can't think of anyone who would value energy efficiency and space so much that they would deal with those compromises.  It kind of reminds me of N64-era Nintendo's decision that minimizing load times were worth enough to a consumer to deal with weaker third party support, paying more for games and not having then-popular features like red book audio and FMV.  It comes across like Nintendo getting fixated on one specific concept and just ignoring the impact of such a decision.

Oddly enough they've never really played up the "green" aspect of the Wii U, which seems like the one potentially positive marketing aspect of compromising everything that matters to use a little less electricity.
 
Reading further into the article you can really get an idea of how incompetent Nintendo is at third party relations.  You reveal the hardware to your third parties and pretty much everyone says "I'm concerned about the CPU power" and you just brush it off?  Gee, you've had third party problems for three console generations in a row and that sort of thing doesn't tip you off that maybe you've made a mistake in your design?  If you gave the slightest **** about third party support your goal would be for the reaction of your first demo to third parties to be "This looks great!  When can we start development?" and "Uh, gee, I don't know about this." would be devastating.
 
There is no mystery to Nintendo's third party problems.  Third parties don't hate them for no reason, Nintendo just makes everyone jump through so many unnecessary hoops that no sane company would waste time and money on their bullshit.

[BlackNMild2k1]

  It comes across like Nintendo getting fixated on one specific concept and just ignoring the impact of such a decision.

Oddly enough they've never really played up the "green" aspect of the Wii U, which seems like the one potentially positive marketing aspect of compromising everything that matters to use a little less electricity.

It's probably because if they did an infomercial on the energy saving of owning a Wii U over a PS4 over the span of a year, the saving wouldn't be that significant that most people would care.

And then ontop of that Sony would just counter with a more damaging series of commercials showing that you would save lots of money on energy by owning a Wii U that you never played because it didn't have any games (internet meme comes back to haunt), then proceed to show all the awesome things you can do on your PS4.

More damaging that it would be beneficial. It's better that Nintendo just let that one go.

[Ceric]

With the Irony being that XBOne and PS4 are in the same situation game wise as the WiiU... Including Rayman Legends in February...

[Shaymin]

Looks like WiiU gets Link to the Past a couple of months late: Nintendo's website is confirming a January 30 launch.

[NWR_insanolord]

Meanwhile, Super Mario Bros. 3 still lists as TBD. **** you, NOA.

[BranDonk Kong]

Has anyone mentioned that Nintendo is going to start putting DS games on the Virtual Console? Seems pretty cool - but if you already own the game you should get it for free (through eShop or registration).

[BlackNMild2k1]

I agree, but it's tricky for retail software, because you could buy the game, register it for the digital copy, then turn around and sell the physical copy and still get to keep the digital copy for much cheaper than the cost of the game.

Nintendo would feel robbed of a much needed sale, so it can't just be that easy to get a digital copy, unless Nintendo sees some hidden benefit in allowing that to happen.