Author Topic: "Revolution" / Nintendo's different tact / technolust vs. innovation  (Read 18576 times)

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Offline Kairon

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I hate it when people compare Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft using standards that they don't even question. The simple fact of the matter is that, as early as the Gamecube's launch, we all should've realized that Nintendo CANNOT go toe-to-toe with Sony or Microsoft in any obvious way.

Simply put, Nintendo is little more than a large, experimental Japanese software company. Compared to the Cancerous-Domino-Octopus Microsoft, or the Skynet-like Sony, Nintendo has less resources, less know-how, less technological know-how, less pervasive market presence, and less chance than a snowball in hell.

So how does Nintendo seem to be coping? By examining the strategy of Sony and Microsoft. Sony and Microsoft are NOT in this for the games, they see the videogame market as a backdoor entry into people's living rooms, with their systems slowly progressing into what Sony and Microsoft hope to be game/DVR/computer/tv/internet hybrids. They basically want to take control of all of people's entertainment options via the game system, and this is what leads them on their rampage to cutting edge technology, endless ports, and that "technolust" factor that drives the early adopters in a traditional consumer electronics product plan.

Where's the chink of armor in that? With the first hints of the revolution, we should see how Nintendo hopes to carve out a successful niche for themselves in the market: Instead of committing hara-kiri by trying to out-compete Sony or Microsoft on Electronics or Computer technology (areas where absolutely NO one can challenge either Sony or Microsoft), they are trying to broaden the casual gaming market directly. This is what Nintendo means when they say "Revolution," they will try to change the structure of the videogame market where casual gamers are not the hangers-on off whatever the technolusting early adopters do, but instead are customers who can be sold to directly via introduction of new control schemes, new game types, and simplicity of use and pricing.

We can already see this with Nintendo's DS. Nintendogs, Electro-Plankton, Mystery games and Wario Ware are all games that defy contemporary hardcore convention: instead of providing a linear gameplay experience, they create new types of gameplay that appeal to Non-Traditional gamers, i.e. new customers who wouldn't normally be sought after by Sony or Microsoft except as after-thoughts who buy the PS2 3 years after it's out. Is it successful? Again, look to the DS. While "traditional straight-shootin' console gamers" like us don't know what to make of it, the Japanese have made the tamagotchi-esque Nintendogs a huge hit. And Animal Crossing DS may just prove to be the unique DS hit that Nintendo is incorporating into their battle plan: instead of having a select few early adopters ooh and ah at minimally improved graphics while gameplay remains virtually the same, Nintendo can offer games aimed directly at the wider-than-expected casual gaming market where Halo, Tekken, and MGS are not considered god's gifts to men.

This strategy allows Nintendo to choose their battleground. If Nintendo fights Sony and Microsoft solely on technology, or electonica geek-lust, then they will always lose. Always. But Sony and Microsoft are concentrated on taking over the living room via the early-adopter technolust strategy, so that leaves them blind to new gameplay possibilities. Already, we've seen the PS3 and X360 controllers. They are the exact same things as the PS2 and S controllers, except wireless (and imho, uglier). Sony and Microsoft believe that the true future in gaming is merely to keep continuously ramming more power and more graphics, more polys and more lightsources, into games that play basically the same as their predecessors. Nintendo hasn't revealed their controller because like Miyamoto said, Nintendo's analog stick was stolen, as was their rumble pack, their wireless controllers, and so many other innovations that Sony and Microsoft, with their armies of engineers, can replicate within 6 months. Let Sony and Microsoft innovate for themselves.

We've already seen Nintendo start to experiment with the DS's touch screen opening up new styles of gameplay that can appeal to non-traditional gamers. And while with the revolution, the requisite Metroid, SSBM and Mario will satisfy some traditional fans, any growth in marketshare is DIRECTLY reliant on Nintendo's ability to create new gameplay that isn't simply copied over and over by their competitors. And that new gameplay is what Nintendo is holding back, along with their new controller.

What's the revolution? The revolution IS NOT in the increase of technological power, but the application of it. Instead of making systems that can run hotter or faster than each other, Nintendo wants to make something that appeals to people who are outside of Sony and MS' blast radius. Microsoft wants to use the internet to connect players in Perfect Dark Zero deathmatches. Nintendo wants to use it to not only do that for SSBM, but connect Animal Crossing communities in ways that appeal to people without an urge to twitch-kill. Sony seems to believe that if they throw enough polygons at a game, they'llc ross a magical point where it will somehow convey "emotion." Nintendo knows that emotion is not a product of the eyes, but one of the heart. Players didn't cry over Aeris in FF7 because of the graphics, they cared because the story crafted a connection to her; Players won't see their DS' as personal extensions of themselves because of Metroid Prime Hunters (though that may entice some of you out there), but because their Nintendogs have wormed their way into their hearts.

Nintendo's success, ever since Sony entered the game market, has relied on their games. Now, with third parties having the ability to create quality games in any of the conventional genre, Nintendo, even iIF they had third party support, would have nothing to help them stand out...except new games that feature new gamestyles that connect with people who Sony and Microsoft expect to be rewarded with 2 years after their hardcore early adopter launches.

Will it work? Can Nintendo revolutionize, democritize, the industry by creating game experiences, either with ease of use, retro-games, or new gameplay? Only time will tell, and only the secrets that Nintendo's hiding can determine the outcome. Maybe it's even IMPOSSIBLE for Nintendo at this point, maybe the tides of history will be against them, just like it was against so many great powers in the past.

But to me one thing is clear: Nintendo CANNOT compete against Sony or Microsoft on processor speeds or polygon numbers. They will ALWAYS be behind. Nintendo is a company that made Hanafuda playing cards in the past, and software experiences now. Nintendo's only hope to succeed against Sony or Microsoft is to be different. Nintendo will be dead in the water the moment they have a system that is closely comparable to Microsoft's or Sony's boxes, because by then they'll have been so distracted as to lose their only competitive advantage, and Sony and Microsoft will NOT be beat on their home turf.

Nintendo may fail, their revolution may not succeed. It may even be coopted by Sony or Microsoft. But if that's the case, then Nintendo will have failed trying to win, trying to be unique and different and successful. They will not have failed with a retooled XBox360 on their hands and bereft of the deceny or innovation that sets them apart from Sony or Microsoft. They will have failed doing what they do best: developing innovating gameplay instead of following the consumer heartless, electronic and entertainment center bandwagon.

Carmine M. Red
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Offline Arbok

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Anyone want to point out that Nintendo actually has more money than Sony does right now? Although their massive debt doesn't appear to be slowing them down at all... *shrugs*  
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Offline Kairon

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I believe a more appropriate word is resources. Nintendo has money because they've been frugal and they keep it liquid. Sony has their money tied up in all sorts of different departments and entertainment ventures, all very multi-disciplinary resources that Nintendo cannot emulate and that Sony can easily bring to bear (i.e. Blu-ray DVD). Anyone know the net worth of Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo so we can do a comparison? lol.

Carmine M. Red
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A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline Artimus

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I just made a similar post to this on another board. Here it is:

There are a couple quotes I want to highlight from the Shiggy interview:

Quote


However, the way that [Sony and Microsoft] are planning on implementing [cutting edge] technology is obviously very different from the route that we're going to be taking. On the business side of things I see where we're going and I see where they're going and I'm not worried at all. I don't think it's going to influence us at all. We're good to go.
...
We're kind of in a strange period where power is the crux of whether or not something is going to be successful. So again, that seems a little bit odd. If we rely solely on power of console to dictate to where we're going with games, I think that tends to suppress the creativity of designers. They tend to rely solely on what the technology allows them to do instead of thinking of new and creative ideas.

The way we are approaching the development of Revolution is we pose the questions to ourselves: why is the home console necessary? What functions in a home console would make everyone in the family say, "Yeah, we need that and want that." We pose those questions and the answers to those questions are what's guiding our development.
...
You know, in regard to the power of the Nintendo Revolution versus, say, the Xbox 360, we're looking at making a small, quiet, affordable console. If you look at trying to incorporate all that, of course we might not have the horsepower that some other companies have, but if you look at the numbers that they're throwing out, are those numbers going to be used in-game? I mean, those are just numbers that somebody just crunched up on a calculator. We could throw out a bunch of numbers, too, but what we're going to do is wait until our chips are done and we're going to find out how everything in the game is running, what its peak performance is, and those are the numbers that we're going to release because those are the numbers that really count.

I do think it's very irresponsible for people to say, "This is what we're running on. This is the power of our machine," when they're not even running on final boards. I think the professional's job is to not believe those numbers.


I'm really going to be fascinated to see what they have. But it really seems like Nintendo has no interest in the same industry that Sony and Microsoft do. Perhaps it's time people stopped considering Nintendo a player in the market the way the other two do. I don't think Nintendo considers themselves one...But if you look at it, it does make sense. Nintendo's president is Satoru Iwata. He's the guy who helped maked the original Super Smash Bros. He's not a business man or a coprorate guy, he's a game maker. You don't see Bill Gates giddily gloating about beating Reggie in Smash Bros. If you watch the conference there's a moment when he says "Smash Bros. is mine" because it is indeed, his game. There's a certain pride in that statement that you don't see in the other two conferences. With the other two it's "Look how cool this tech demo is!" "Look how powerful this is!" or "Look how many online features we have!". The pride is in the tech and systems. With Nintendo it's in the games.

I think we're entering a generation where purchasing a Revolution will explicitly mean something different than purchasing a Playstation or XBOX. While you'll still have the main third party franchises, there will be perhaps fewer ports to Revolution. You'll be buying it for a certain type of game. This is why the inexpensive comment raises my attention. If the Revolution launches at $150 and is tiny (maybe $200 is more realistic) why should we all be buying it as well as a PS3 or 360? Videogames have always been three things: PC, console or handheld. Is it time we started splitting console into two? If the Rev is cheap and entirely unique, why should we expect it to have the same games as the other two? In that sense maybe Nintendo is making the most brilliant marketing decision ever here. Maybe they figured out that fighting the infinite MS and Sony will essentially lead to a lot of money wasted. Maybe instead they're going to stay a game company and start making pure game systems that they're going to market to a different audience. It's actually an intelligent idea from a business standpoint.

I guess what I'm trying to say is maybe Nintendo doesn't want people to ask "Should I buy a PS3, XBOX360 or Revolution?" but instead ask "Should I get PS3 or XBOX360?" while owning a Revolution for a whole other reason. And, if the price is right it could just work.  

Offline anubis6789

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Ah, but being liquid is a great attribute for a company to have. What if, in the unlikly event, all those debts that Sony has get called in? It would not kill Sony but it would hurt them, a lot.

Regarding Kairon's post, I think you are correct on so many levels it is scary. One thing that I think Nintendo might be trying to do with the Revolution, besides courting non-gamers, is try and get small developers to make games for the system. In a way I think Nintendo wants to create a more acessable Yaroze.
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Offline Ian Sane

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"The simple fact of the matter is that, as early as the Gamecube's launch, we all should've realized that Nintendo CANNOT go toe-to-toe with Sony or Microsoft in any obvious way."

Bullsh!t.  Nintendo can.  They've make better games than Sony and MS do.  They've got the technical know-how to make both a powerful and well designed console.  They make better quality hardware than anyone else.  They have more experience.  They've made four consoles.  They've had over 20 years (Famicom in 1983) of experience in making consoles and by now should have a pretty good idea of what works and what doesn't.  They also have a huge ass chunk of money.  Not comparibly to Microsoft's but it's big nonetheless and they have no debt or a higher up corporation that can cut their legs out from under them when they don't make a profit.  Unlike Sony and MS the heads of Nintendo's console division have complete control over the whole company.

Nintendo's failure to compete with Sony and Microsoft is entirely because they are a bunch of stubborn jerks who refuse to ever admit when they're wrong, hate sharing money with anyone else, and insist on doing things their way whether the market wants it or not.  Sony didn't beat Nintendo.  Nintendo beat themselves.  It was using a cartridge format on the N64 that screwed them over.  They chose to ignore where the market was going and did their own thing and they paid for it.  Sony didn't do anything exceptional they just didn't screw up and Nintendo did.  It's the same with the Cube.  Nintendo screwed up a lot of stuff while Sony and MS didn't.

Nintendo chose to not go online until now.  Nintendo chooses to not make more mature games.  They choose to screw over third parties.  The pit Nintendo is in is because of their attitude.

IfyYou took someone who isn't a stubborn jackass and gave him complete control over Nintendo, they could compete.  Same development teams, same money, same technical development guys, etc without the stubborn jackass attitude and they could not only compete they could kick ass.

They've got the ability.  They just choose not to use it.

Offline jasonditz

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Quote

Originally posted by: Kairon
I believe a more appropriate word is resources. Nintendo has money because they've been frugal and they keep it liquid. Sony has their money tied up in all sorts of different departments and entertainment ventures, all very multi-disciplinary resources that Nintendo cannot emulate and that Sony can easily bring to bear (i.e. Blu-ray DVD). Anyone know the net worth of Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo so we can do a comparison? lol.

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Market Capitalization:

Microsoft = $280 Billion
Sony = $37 Billion
Nintendo = $14.7 Billion



Offline Artimus

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Quote

Nintendo's failure to compete with Sony and Microsoft is entirely because they are a bunch of stubborn jerks who refuse to ever admit when they're wrong, hate sharing money with anyone else, and insist on doing things their way whether the market wants it or not.


You need to take a step back and get some perspective. I've never once seen a Nintendo employee be a jerk. Nintendo has admitted their mistakes. Perhaps you just need to realize they have different goals than you do? Maybe you should consider owning two systems this generation?

Your last comment had some merit. Maybe they don't WANT to compete in the power-house multimedia station? Perhaps they want to make good games that you can get inexpensively on their system. Perhaps we should be focusing on the flaws in their games, not their market strategy. Because what they do they do well. I think half the reason people are so disappointed in Nintendo is because they expect the impossible. Zelda scores 95% on GameRankings and people are pissed because it's tiku tiku tiku!  and drove adults away. People are mad for what it isn't and totally ignore it's one of the generation's highest rated games. There are certain problems with them not innovating their series (Mario Kart, for example) but overall Nintendo games are as good as ever. Perhaps it's time we stopped treating Nintendo like a stubborn God and start treating them like a compnay that makes great games?

Offline Kairon

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Nintendo can't. There entire company is geared towards game-making and their hardware side is only really present in the realm of interfaces.

They CANNOT compete technologically, as evidenced by the fact that they now completely rely on IBM and ATI. Even their NES was underpowered compared to competition, their GB, and perhaps even their SNES. Besides that, NO ONE in Nintendo has any in-depth experience in the computer industry. Nintendo is nothing more than a big software maker who makes hardware as a way to spur on software innovation, they are completely inexperienced in cutting edge technology and couldn't even hope to conceive of something like the CELL chip, which, Sony as a huge consumer electronics company, can.
Every single Nintendo console from the Gamecube on is second-hand technology that they have to pay even more money to Matsushita and ATI to throw in.

They CANNOT make better games, at least in the way market dictates. Third parties weaned on the Super NES can now make games that, for all intents and purposes, REPLACE Nintendo games. People who bought the PS2 DID NOT MISS MARIO. They just bought Jak and Daxter, rachet and Clank, and who knows what else.

They CANNOT capitalize on existing markets such as online connectivity solely because Nintendo can be "replaced" by third parties. This is no longer the age of the single 800 pound ape. This is the age where a Sony specifically tries to counter HALO 2 with a similar game released at that time frame. This is the age where Nintendo does NOT create the best games in genres for many players, and where they will be seen as second-rate. This is the age where Electronic Arts, NOT Nintendo, has the power to say "yea" or "may" to new systems.

They CANNOT hope to rival Sony or MS in terms of resources, no matter how much money they have in the bank. Sony and Microsoft are multidisciplinary companies with their hands in not only gaming and computing, but consumer electronivs, networking, entertainment, movies, etc.

They CANNOT hope to equal their competitors in 3rd party support ever, unless they get the marketshare to prove it. They can't get the marketshare without 3rd party support. No matter how much they beg, or pay, or bribe, or deal, they can never rely on 3rd parties.

That's why Nintendo is doing what they're doing now.
They're saying: Our online will be seamless, cheap and/or free, and will have a catalogue of old Nintendo games. Sony or MS can't compete on that last point.
They're saying that they need to create new gameplay experiences that are outside of the normal realm of gaming, such as Nintendogs and whatever else may come down the pipe, online or not. Sony or MS are completely ignoring that market. (well, not MS, they're including Solitaire Hearts and Backgammon with the XBOX360 I hear.)
They're saying that they need to CHANGE the nature of the game market and industry.

Because under the current way the game industry works, Nintendo CANNOT succeed. The current game industry is perfect for companies like MS or Sony, and suicide for Nintendo. That's why their code name is revolution: the only way they CAN succeed is to change the rules, so that what dictates success aren't the issues that Sony or MS are strong at, but instead the issues that play to Nintendo's strengths.

Basically put, Nintendo is trying for a revolution because they ARE NOT COMPETITIVE in the current videogame imarket. They need to change the environment around them, or die a slow death.

Carmine M. red
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A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
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Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
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Offline Artimus

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Fairly accurate, Kairon, the key being they're not a hardware company. But I beg to differ they're trying to change the industry. I think they're tyring to make their own market in the sense that they don't want to be Sony vs. MS vs. Nintendo. They want to be considered as something different, not a multimedia game station. I think it's very viable if they make compelling software with a compelling controller and provide it at a good price ($200 max).

Offline Kairon

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RE: "Revolution" / Nintendo's different tact / technolust vs. innovation
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2005, 03:29:13 PM »
I think you're accurate Artimus. Nintendo isn't trying to change the entire industry so much as change the conditions under which they can be called a success. I wouldn't call it "carving a nitch" because that's too restrictive a term and Nintendo is doing something a alittle larger scale than that, but they are indeed trying to change the industry's perception of hat success is and how it can be achieved.

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Carmine Red, Associate Editor

A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline Artimus

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RE: "Revolution" / Nintendo's different tact / technolust vs. innovation
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2005, 03:33:52 PM »
I think the key is the price. They're trying to make it affordable and desireable as a seperate entity. You like Nintendo? No problem! Like Sony? No problem! It's easy to have both!

I should also add I think the Revolution may last beyond five years, unless there is a real technology leap.

Offline jasonditz

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RE: "Revolution" / Nintendo's different tact / technolust vs. innovation
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2005, 03:36:28 PM »
Here's the thing: Nintendo's not just doing this to spite you, they're doing it because the games they intend to design demand it.

The N64 used cartridges because at the time there was no other way to produce an affordable console that could produce the kind of  3D games they wanted to make. Load times and memory restrictions would have made Mario 64 and OOT impossible. They saw the FMV-laden games that the Sega CD and the CD-i and the 3DO produced and said "that's not where we want to go".

Maybe it was a financial mistake... maybe if they'd stuck with the SNES-CD addon from Sony they'd still be the market leader. But they wouldn't have made the games they wanted to make.

And maybe what they're doing now is a mistake. Maybe cookie cutter consoles that offer higher power and little else is the way things are going. Maybe 10 years from now we'll all be sitting here playing GTA5 on PS4s in full, realtime photorealistic splendor. Maybe shooting whores and jacking cars in an ever more realistic manner is where we're heading, and Nintendo is making a huge mistake swimming against the current.

Maybe Nintendo does need to follow the trends. Maybe Peach needs to get raped by Bowser on camera in the next Mario game. Maybe Link needs to be addicted to heroin. Maybe we need some full frontal nudity in the next metroid.

But would it still be Nintendo anymore?

Offline PaLaDiN

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RE: "Revolution" / Nintendo's different tact / technolust vs. innovation
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2005, 04:13:14 PM »
Nintendo needs to make a console that allows for both their own traditional games and whatever games third parties feel like pumping out. If it's restrictive to third parties in any way, if a third party wants to make a photorealistic hooker hunting sim, then they should be able to on the Rev. If Nintendo for any reason does not let them or encourage them to do this then they're just hurting themselves.

I should probably drop the Ianspeak for a while and say that I personally don't care that much if Nintendo's making the console only for themselves. But we all want the Rev to be perfect in just about every way. He's got a point... I do want to know that third parties not only are developing but actually want to develop for the Rev, and Nintendo's low power comments aren't helping sustain that impression.
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Offline Kairon

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RE:"Revolution" / Nintendo's different tact / technolust vs. innovation
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2005, 04:16:11 PM »
Certainly I'd hope that traditional games would also work well on Nintendo's system. After all, if we can play GC and NES games on it, why not?

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A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
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Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
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For never was a story of more woe
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Offline jasonditz

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RE: "Revolution" / Nintendo's different tact / technolust vs. innovation
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2005, 04:24:53 PM »
I guess my dream for Nintendo is somewhat different. I'd keep using that money to grow the 1st and 2nd party lineup. Don't get in the third parties way, but if they don't like what we offer, to hell with them.

My dream would be to see them release 50 quality 1st or 2nd party titles a year.  A key acquisition or two (Capcom) and some good hirings for new in-house studios and that's very doable.

Offline Arbok

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RE:"Revolution" / Nintendo's different tact / technolust vs. innovation
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2005, 04:42:17 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: jasonditz
My dream would be to see them release 50 quality 1st or 2nd party titles a year.  A key acquisition or two (Capcom) and some good hirings for new in-house studios and that's very doable.


I'd love that too, but it seems to be the opposite of what Nintendo is aiming for right now. Honestly, if Capcom, Namco, and Nintendo merged, I would say "to hell" with third part support all around. Is it likely? No, Nintendo appears to be going more for smaller developers with their current strategy. Perhaps looking for the next "Creatures" with their success on creating the Pokémon concept.
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Offline Artimus

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RE: "Revolution" / Nintendo's different tact / technolust vs. innovation
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2005, 04:44:25 PM »
I have two questions:

1. If the N64 had been more like the PSX, would the games have been as good? NO!
2. If the GCN had played DVDs would the games have been better? NO!

The issue is entirely third party. The question is basically this:

If Nintendo has an idea they really really love, and have brilliant ideas for it, but it won't be compatible with the average PS3/360 EA games because it's a different direction, and having both possible would literally triple the price to so much it has to be either or, which would you choose?

I'd choose Nintendo. Why? I can get PS3 if I want the other games. Nintendo will never stop making games, even if one day they end up third party. But right now they have no reason to. Even if they only sell 20 million per generation there's no reason why they should stop.

Offline Ian Sane

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RE: "Revolution" / Nintendo's different tact / technolust vs. innovation
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2005, 06:02:28 PM »
"They CANNOT compete technologically"

Why not?  The Gamecube could compete with the Xbox and it had some big advantages.  It had incredibly quick load times for example.  It could go online, Nintendo just chose not to.  The graphic capabilities are there.  Look at Metroid Prime, Rogue Leader, SSBM, Resident Evil 4, and Zelda: Twilight Princess.  Nintendo just chose to for whatever reason completely half-ass all their Mario games graphically and thus create the impression that the hardware wasn't up to snuff.  If the Rev is really underpowered there's no excuse.  Nintendo could compete on a hardware front with the Gamecube they can do it with the Rev.  It's their choice if they're going to mess it up.  And it's their choice to push the hardware to it's limits.  They're doing with Zelda so we know they can.

"They CANNOT make better games, at least in the way market dictates."

Yes they can.  They made some of the best games of this generation.  It's their choice to release a crappy Mario Party game every year and to farm out their franchises to every developer they meet.  Nintendo doesn't make bad games.  They just sometimes choose to make games no one would be interested in.  Again that's their choice.  They don't have to release four Mario games a year or turn Zelda into a cartoon.  The quality of their games is through the roof.  It always has been.  If they want to compete they just have to lay off all the Mario spinoffs and endless sequels.  They have to balance their lineup more so that it's more 50/50 between family friendly and more mature, as opposed to the 90/10 split they have now.  They have to provide more variety.  Why is Camelot working on more Mario sports junk when they have a reputation for RPGs?  Why is Intelligent Systems working on another Paper Mario game instead of a console Advance Wars or Fire Emblem (well they're working on Fire Emblem but it took like four years for Nintendo to clue in)?  Why is HAL working on a one button Kirby game that no sane human being would be interested in?  Why are Sega and Namco contracted to make more Nintendo sequels instead of something different?  They've got the talent.  They just choose to make more Mario games instead of providing a more balanced lineup.

"They CANNOT capitalize on existing markets such as online connectivity solely because Nintendo can be 'replaced' by third parties."

I don't get what you're saying here.  How are they replaced?

"They CANNOT hope to rival Sony or MS in terms of resources, no matter how much money they have in the bank."

I'll give you this one but it's not like they're poor or anything.  I don't need Nintendo to throw buckets of money at everything.  They still have more resources than they act like.  It's like if it will take in any initial loss whatsoever they won't do it.  They're cheap.  They try to rip off developers and customers.  If they stopped doing that things would improve.

"They CANNOT hope to equal their competitors in 3rd party support ever, unless they get the marketshare to prove it."

But they can increase their market share by being more aggressive and being more competent.  It's not an overnight thing.  They can still improve things by, I don't know, not treating third parties like crap.  There's no excuse why they always have higher licencing fees.  That's just common sense.  It has nothing to do with Sony being a genius.  And they made some deals with third parties on the Cube that could have done great but Nintendo goofed them up with their dumb choices.  They published a Square game but they stupidly insisted on it having connectivity so we got something crappy.  They had Sega and Namco working on games but they had them work on Nintendo games thus completely nullifying the point of third party support.  I don't expect them to match Sony right away but they can do much better if they pull their head out of their ass.

I don't think Nintendo can become number one overnight.  But they can improve.  They can increase their market share for once.  I think they could even beat Microsoft.  They just have to stop doing stupid sh!t.  Most of Nintendo's problems are caused by their own dumb mistakes.  Stop being an idiot and things should improve.

Offline jasonditz

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RE:"Revolution" / Nintendo's different tact / technolust vs. innovation
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2005, 06:14:05 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"They CANNOT compete technologically"

I'll give you this one but it's not like they're poor or anything.  I don't need Nintendo to throw buckets of money at everything.  They still have more resources than they act like.  It's like if it will take in any initial loss whatsoever they won't do it.  They're cheap.  They try to rip off developers and customers.  If they stopped doing that things would improve.



I don't know about you, but I bought a Cube like 6 months after launch, and never once did I feel ripped off.


Offline Savior

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RE:"Revolution" / Nintendo's different tact / technolust vs. innovation
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2005, 06:14:32 PM »
Nintendo will never beat Sony or Microsoft again... There ive said it.  
The Savior Returns Late 2005

Offline Artimus

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RE: "Revolution" / Nintendo's different tact / technolust vs. innovation
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2005, 06:18:39 PM »
I think Ian should really take a breather. Or buy a PS3 and leave us alone.

You want Nintendo games on a Playstation, essentially.

Offline nemo_83

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RE:"Revolution" / Nintendo's different tact / technolust vs. innovation
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2005, 06:22:07 PM »
MS relies on its other devisions in the company to fund their game devision.  They are not making any money off of it.  They are just putting money into a product presently to beat their chest and create a rift in the videogame market.  They are also costing share holders money.

Sony also relies on its larger arms within the company to support what has become the face of Sony, the Playstation brand.  Sony's game devision has only directly generated four billion dollars in profts for Sony since 98.  But the brand has extended the sells of many of their other more profitable products.  PS acts like an all day advertisement for the brand name Sony and that is what MS is trying to do.  Either that or MS is just trying to hurt Sony and Nintendo just because they themselves can't have any pie.

Nintendo is all game devision.  Everything about their company revolves around the games and the hardware they make.  And Nintendo has generated seven billion dollars since 98.  

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Offline jasonditz

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RE: "Revolution" / Nintendo's different tact / technolust vs. innovation
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2005, 06:22:44 PM »
Nintendo will be in the video game business long after Sony and Microsoft systems are forgotten remnants found only in the back of pawn shops

Offline Arbok

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RE:"Revolution" / Nintendo's different tact / technolust vs. innovation
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2005, 06:23:26 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Artimus
You want Nintendo games on a Playstation, essentially.


Who doesn't want that? Nintendo's great first party games with a huge array of third party games? Although personally I would want the Playstation games on a Nintendo system, instead of the other way around.

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