Author Topic: Are Games Going to Grow Up?  (Read 2830 times)

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Offline Djunknown

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Are Games Going to Grow Up?
« on: February 17, 2008, 04:28:36 AM »
Saw this over at Kotaku. The original link is here. He uses comic books as a parallel.

Some choice quotes:

"I feel this way due partly to the inherent formal obstacles to video games' wide acceptance, and partly because of the uninspiring mindset prevalent among the developers and players of games. I make the comics comparison because I believe the two media have much in common at a high level."

"Browse the racks of a standard comic shop, and the books on the mainstream shelves will be filled with flashy illustrations depicting laughable actions stories, absurdly-proportioned women, and superheroes. Likewise, browse the racks of an Electronics Boutique and you're bound to find mostly sports stars, Japanese children's cartoons, burly men with guns, and women in shameless, implausible dress. The medium infantalizes itself through its chosen subject matter. Based on surface alone, I can't blame the outside viewer for thinking little of the medium at large."

"Film and novels never had to overcome the stigma of starting out as children's distractions. They may not always have been respected artforms, but they were at least always seen as entertainment, if low-brow, aimed at adults. But like comics, video games are never going to grow up. Some sixty years after the wartime comic book boom, the vast majority of comics are still male wish fulfillment trash sold to children, poor drawings of stills from movies that no one would want to fund or film. A small subset, represented by the catalogues of publishers like Fantagraphics and Drawn & Quarterly, is mature and thoughtful, looking to express relateable human experience in a way unique to the medium, aimed at readers who have an appreciation for the form. And an even tinier sliver, zines and underground publications, embraces the experimental and avant garde, attempting to push the boundaries of the medium and catering only to those most passionate and inquisitive as to what the future of comics might be."

He adds an addendum later after some responses/rebuttals.

"The good 10% of comics and games are lost because the medium itself isn't relevant to the viewership at large. Even the games that are great, the ones that I can read as being valuable, are almost always hidden under the juvenile veneer of big guns, tanks, zombies, robots and so forth. Much like The Watchmen is a legitimately great comic, it's inaccessible to people outside the limited group that understand how it reworks the popular superhero context. To anyone outside the fanship, it's just a comic about guys in tights, just like Half-Life 2 is simply another game about shooting monsters."

"Suits and investors need to be concerned with this ****. Who do you want to be backing further down the line: an insular, stunted medium like comics, or a full-grown, culturally-relevant, and hey, PROFITABLE, medium like film? We aren't going to reach that point by catering to the current hardcore. And we're not doing ourselves any good by assaulting the casual gamer with the deluge of crap that's been thrown at the Wii audience so far. We're going to expand our customer base by trying to give them new, subtle, interesting approaches to interactive experiences that are universal and human. We need to give them access to this form that we already know is so great, and fill it with content that they can identify with, get something enriching out of."

Bold face is my emphasis. Is Nintendo and third parties trying to do with the Wii a lost cause?

This has has caused other bloggers including N'Gai Croal to chime in. Part one is here.

Edit: some grammar changes. Also, how do you that magic thing with urls that lets you type whatever word you want, leading you to the link as opposed just copying/pasting URLs?

Edit: Thanks Wandering!
« Last Edit: February 18, 2008, 05:23:59 AM by Djunknown »
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Offline wandering

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Re: Are Games Going to Grow Up?
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2008, 02:48:37 PM »
I disagree with steve's main point - that games will never be "culturally relevant". By "culturally relevant" I assume he means "popular" - and video games are already pretty popular, and getting more popular all the time. Steve argues that books are more accessible and relevant than games, but I'd be willing to bet that more Americans played a videogame last year than read a book.

Quote
Also, how do you that magic thing with urls that lets you type whatever word you want, leading you to the link as opposed just copying/pasting URLs?

[url=www.google.com]A website[/url]
« Last Edit: February 17, 2008, 04:00:24 PM by WaDaisy4Ever »
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Offline Nick DiMola

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Re: Are Games Going to Grow Up?
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2008, 12:47:39 AM »
Comparing games to comics is pretty unfair. Comics are largely unpopular which is definitely not the case with games. Gaming is far more mainstream and is continuously becoming more so as time passes. I think that by the time the gaming generation is the majority of the population, games will be more prevalent than they are now, with the possibility of being as prevalent as movies are. Give it another 10-20 years and gaming will be in a totally different place than it is today.
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Are Games Going to Grow Up?
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2008, 01:13:44 AM »
The writer takes one common part of the history of comics and games, the fact that they were originally targeted mostly at kids, and then jumps to the conclusion that they are exactly the same. Anyone with a total lack of logical sense like that should be legally banned from posting things on the internet.
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Offline Deguello

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Re: Are Games Going to Grow Up?
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2008, 02:39:06 AM »
In a twist of bitter irony, what ruined comics was not their "targeting" of children, but the actions of collector adults who drove the prices up by calling the comic books "collectible art."

Makes you wonder about all the increased prices and "collector's editions" and "legendary editions," huh?
« Last Edit: February 18, 2008, 02:51:34 AM by Deguello »
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Re: Are Games Going to Grow Up?
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2008, 02:52:24 AM »
games are not art

games are entertainment

games are toys
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Offline redgiemental

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Re: Are Games Going to Grow Up?
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2008, 04:41:39 PM »
I think Mr Jack is absolutely right as soon as the generation that grew up with games gets older and replaces the older generations that didn't games will be all set to be one of the main entertainment mediums. Just a matter of time I think.

As for what ruined comics I think the comic book code neutering comic book writers ability to include anything remotely mature adult or interesting for many many years after the 60s boom may have been a primary cause.

Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Are Games Going to Grow Up?
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2008, 04:00:11 AM »
Are comic books a fair comparison because while comic books may be inaccessible to the mainstream the format of comics is not.  Many comic strips for example like Peanuts and Garfield are well known to pretty much every human being in the United States and Canada.  The format of pictures with word balloons is not for nerds only.  It's just comic books that are.

Videogames are really interactive electronic entertainment.  Is that inaccessible as a whole?  Though I'm not a big fan of it Nintendo is showing that it isn't with their non-games.  I guess those are the comic strips of videogames while Halo 3 is the comic book.

I think people generalize film and literature a little too much when they talk about how mainstream it is.  Are books mainstream?  Yes.  Is science fiction mainstream?  Not really.  A certain type of fiction is not.  Certain types of films also aren't.  As are certain types of videogames.  As are certain types of comics (which itself is again part of literature as a whole).

I think if videogames have a roadblock preventing true mainstream acceptance it's their nature as active entertainment.  Books and movies and music are largely passive.  You easily absorb those with your senses without much effort.  Videogames require effort like sports and hobbies and "real" activities.  That will probably be the big limitation.

Offline IceCold

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Re: Are Games Going to Grow Up?
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2008, 04:02:50 AM »
Quote
I think people generalize film and literature a little too much when they talk about how mainstream it is.  Are books mainstream?  Yes.  Is science fiction mainstream?  Not really.  A certain type of fiction is not.  Certain types of films also aren't.  As are certain types of videogames.  As are certain types of comics (which itself is again part of literature as a whole).

That's... a very good point Ian. Props.
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Offline redgiemental

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Re: Are Games Going to Grow Up?
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2008, 06:03:13 AM »
Wow. Thats very insightful Ian Well done.

It could be interesting to see if things will progress into a state whereby less active  interactive entertainment being the mainstream with "videogames" being a niche like sceince is to mainstream literature? or well interacrivity ultimately prove to be more of a barrier than an attraction.

Interest as Ice Cold said props


Offline Mario

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Re: Are Games Going to Grow Up?
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2008, 11:39:35 AM »
It's hard to see interactive entertainment taking over inactive entertainment looking at the current trend of people getting noticeably lazier, dumber and slower.