Topic: A more "traditionally designed" controller for Rev?

[Bill Aurion]

It's like you people are retarded..."OMG WHERE IS TRADITIONAL CONTROL?"  How about you read the bloody BOLD PRINT A FEW POSTS UP!?

[ThePerm]

the infrared sensor is  for turning on the revolution

[Renny]

There is a bar that is placed in front of the TV. I assume this means that the remote determines movement by timing differences in the signals sent from the bar at each end, a la GPS. This will work regardless of how large or what technology your display is. So no gyros unless they are used in tandem with this system, such as for more accurate rotation. Also it will definitely not use infared for game control. I kind of doubt it will need it at all, unless it's to save energy when simply turning on the system or using multimedia functions.

[pudu]

Allright one more time here to make sure everyone gets it clearly.  This is from the Eurogamer interview with Jim Merrick:

Quote
Eurogamer: How is the controller going to work with games that aren't designed specifically for the Revolution - multi-platform titles and so on?

Jim Merrick: We're producing a classic-style expansion controller, based on traditional designs like the Gamecube controller. It's like a shell with a hole in the top into which you slot the freehand-style controller, and then you can play third-party ported games, and retro Nintendo games you've downloaded.

So there's that option - but even while it's inserted into the classic-style shell, the freehand controller will still be able to sense positioning and so on, so there are more options too.

It's something that's just as true for the DS - not every game uses the DS's unique features. But some multi-platform titles do, like The Sims 2 for example. We hope other developers will do the same and look at ways their multi-platform titles can make use of the Revolution's features.

What I hope is that the "classic-style" controller is bundled in with the "freehand-style" and "nunchuck-style" controller.  This would allow for all ports to be possible and also custom/unique games to be made using the new freehand-style controller.  Also, when the free-style controller is inserted into the classic-style controller it will still be wireless and have positioning sensing ablility.  This way you would have the best of both worlds.

Some issues with this would be:

-lazyness:  A bundling of the "classic-style" controller would make it easy for 3rd party developers to fall back on old-school controls.  What we might see a lot of is old-school controls with some added positioning features.

-price:  this could drive up the price of the console quite a bit (having to include the main controller and 2 expasions

-confusion:  could be counterproductive for Nintendo because consumers might not understand how everything works and what to use when.  Also, how will they sell the controllers seperately?  Will they sell the expansions seperate or bundled together?  If buying them seperate someone would have to by an addiitonal 9 separate items for 4 player action on all games.

I would also like to discuss an idea I heard on another forum.  If they wanted to they could release the classic-style expansion separately and bundle it with a certain amount of game downloads.  This way they would be making money for downloads simply off of controller purchases and people would be getting more for their money.  It would all make a bit more sense (although not all would want to DL old games).
 

[Bill Aurion]

"-lazyness: A bundling of the "classic-style" controller would make it easy for 3rd party developers to fall back on old-school controls. What we might see a lot of is old-school controls with some added positioning features."

You could have said the same thing for the DS, yet devs are still trying their hands on new things...

[Artimus]

I wish the publishers would just have guts and not require some crappy appeasment controller.

I hate video game makers. They're totally unimaginative.

[Stimutacs Addict]

Artimus, are you serious? I'm thinking that devs that didn't already know are pretty excited about the possibilities they can include in their FPSers and... hey, what the heck to developers make nowadays?

oh yea, now in GTA you can actually pull people out of the cars!

[Artimus]

If they actually do that, sure. But if we just get a bunch of bloody ports with idiotic mini-games then I'll be very very mad. Publishers more than developers are to blame, but this is what happens when the people running the show care about profits not actual games.

[KnowsNothing]

Woah, I missed an entire page, ignore this post.

[Rellik]

I honestly don't think laziness will be a problem among developers.

I think EVERYONE who has any sense in them senses the gravitas of this innovation, and how much fun it could be if used properly - and I think most people would also agree that it doesn't lend itself to every type of game.  Some developers will choose not to take advantage of the new innovations - that doesn't take away from those who do put it to real use.  By including an "gamepad shell" to make the controller more suitable for certain types of games, we, the users, simply get more options - this is a very positive thing (as long as there are no side-effects, such as increased price, or userbase limited by who has what peripherals and all varieties of that confusion).

So I think it's very short-sighted to condemn the gamepad shell attachment - you'll be out of luck if you want to play a traditional fighting game, or any of those old pleasures of non-wand-waving genres.  And don't forget the games from past Nintendo consoles!

[GoldenPhoenix]

I don't see why Nintendo can't include the controller attachment, along with bundling all the controller accessories together into one package. Heck MS is selling their wi-fi controller for 50$, I'm sure Nintendo could sell the remote ( the only area where things are pricey), analogue attachment, and traditional controller shell for under that price, because I have no doubt in my mind that MS is making a hefty profit from their price!  

[Rancid Planet]

The "standardized" controller is a good thing. Sure some developers will be lazy and just make games with this controller in mind instead of Nintendo's uber remote. But let me ask you this homeslices and homeslicets...

Do you really think that those same lazy developers would have made games for the Rev in the first place? I mean if they are SO lazy that they don't want to bother with motion sensor stuff then why would they have ever made games for the Rev at all? Answer: They wouldn't have.

The standardized controller is good. It will help Nintendo get those crappy ports that we always say Nintendo needs more of but then most of us don't buy anyway.

[Artimus]

Quote
Originally posted by: Rellik
- and I think most people would also agree that it doesn't lend itself to every type of game.

Like?

[KnowsNothing]

Seriously, I can't think of one type of game that couldn't benefit from this.

I just notcied something.  I'm probably way behind here, but in the video the controller's two bottom buttons are X and Y, while in the picture's they're a and b.  10 bux sex they go with X and Y

[Rellik]

Quick, precise fighters, for one - 2-d action games like megaman, castlevania, etc - many 3-d action games - any kind of game that requires either fast, precise action or is built on abstract concepts that concern themselves only with the standard type of controller will benefit from the ability to use a more standard button array.

Don't tell me you won't even miss holding a controller in your hands.  The Revo's new controller concept is fantastic, but hand-motions and gesturing don't lend themselves to EVERY game - a game like Resident Evil 4, Mario 64, Wind Waker, Pikmin, FPS's, Adventure games etc. would be AMAZING on the Revolution's new controller, since the control is meant to be natural, fluid, and accurate but not to a lightning-fast degree - but a game like Soul Calibur or Guilty Gear X/2 or Megaman X, even if they would benefit vastly from the motion sensing, still will also benefit from the trappings of the controllers of yesteryear.

[Rellik]

Quote
Originally posted by: KnowsNothing
Seriously, I can't think of one type of game that couldn't benefit from this.

I agree - but I contend that there are types of games that despite benefiting from the new type of control, would also be hurt by the absence of the old type of control (see above post for less succinct explanation).

[pudu]

Quote
Originally posted by: KnowsNothing
Seriously, I can't think of one type of game that couldn't benefit from this.

I just notcied something.  I'm probably way behind here, but in the video the controller's two bottom buttons are X and Y, while in the picture's they're a and b.  10 bux sex they go with X and Y

freudian  slip?  or a jk about sex is determined by x/y?

I think they'll go with ab because that's what all the press photos are and it would make sense if you can use the controller sideways as an NES controller as some people are guessing (I for one doubt it would be comfortable).  The promo vid probably used earlier prototypes and was made a while back.

[Artimus]

I don't think 2D games are a very good argument against the Rev. Developers have mostly abandoned them.

[Bill Aurion]

2D games aren't a good argument against the Rev because you can come up with new ways to play...

[Shecky]

"Nintendo also mentioned that the controller stick could be slipped inside other, more conventional controller shells, dance mats, bongos, or other peripherals."

"Of course, Nintendo has no intention of leaving their traditional audience behind, and Mr. Miyamoto is quick to add that the controller is already well suited for a number of popular genres. '[We aimed for something] that is simple enough for everyone,' he says, 'but also something that people who've been playing games for years will be satisfied with.'"

Source

Really this stick is getting around  Like a wireless Brain!  Should make the "shells" cheaper too.

From the keynote:
"Thinking about packing Revolution with the main controller and attachment, Iwata says."

My guess is that they plan to release the console with the stick and the 'traditional shell'.  I bet they're debating on packing in the analog attachment.  The analog atatchment isn't necessary if they had the traditional shell (although damn handy for FPS, and other things).  My guess is that extra controllers would come in a package of stick and traditional shell.  The analog eye drop attachment would probably be a separate purchase.  (MAYBE one would come with the system... I think that's what Iwata may have been referring too.)  

[stevey]

THIS CONTROLLER IS LIKE LOOKIN AT THE FACE OF GOD!!!!!!!!!!! No really there still so much hidden about it. I bet the remote will costed about $25~30 and the stick $5 the shell $5 rev bongos $5 and all add on $5 and then there no resone 3rd party wont make game for cheep add on that cost the same as gas will in 06.

[Shecky]

The traditional shell will likely resemble a gamecube wavebird too... given that they're promoting backwards compatibility they will want to be able to support cube games _out of the box_.

Edit: with the 100% possibility of more shells sold separately that look like they're older counterparts for that "old-school" feeling

[stevey]

"given that they're promoting backwards compatability they will want to be able to support cube games _out of the box_. "

so you dont need a cube controller for the rev to play cube game Ian I want the brain cell you kill from your bitch back.

[Bill Aurion]

I'm thinking they'll go with a more N64-style button format, considering they don't sell N64 controllers anymore, yet they do sell GC controllers...They'll also most likely give it a futuristic makeover...

[Flames_of_chaos]

How about a traditional controller with 6 face buttons and 3 or 4 triggers?