Topic: Next gen CPUs suck.

[Galford]

I think it's gonna come down to what developers do with those cores, and how creative they can get with the power available to them.

I think if used properly, the Xenon could do thing in terms of AI that Cell isn't going to touch.

Cell I think will be the same way, but in term of physics.

Here's one thing that hasn't been mentioned too much, where's the sound chip for the PS3?
While MS has quitely stated that the XBox360 will have dedicated sound hardware, Sony has made said much about it's sound setup.

I wonder if the rumors about Sony using Cell for sound processing are true?  
If that's the case, it will be the first time since the N64, a console lacked a dedicated sound chip.

Ironicly, the SPEs in Cell are very DSP like in nature.

[Cube_King]

I heard somewhere that the 360 doesn't have a sound card either and that one of it's CPU's thread (or whatever) will handle all the sound and music for the machine. I don't know if that's a fact though.

[vudu]

Here's an interesting article:  "Your Existing Code? Throw it Away"

Gabe Newell (Valve Software) says:

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Technologically, I think every game developer should be terrified of the next generation of processors. Your existing code, you can just throw it away. It's not going to be helpful in creating next generation game titles. Most of the problems of getting these systems running on these multicore processors are not solved. They are doctoral theses, not known implementation problems. So it's not even clear that over the lifespan of these next generation systems that they will be solved problems. The amount of time it takes to get a good multicore engine running, the Xbox 360 might not even be on the market any longer. That should scare the crap out of everybody. If writing in-order code [in terms of difficulty] is a one and writing out-of-order code is a four, then writing multicore code is a 10.

I'm not sure what some of that stuff means, but I understand that the basic jist is way too much effort is going to need to be put into a game to be worthwhile.

[Galford]

He basicly says what many people already here knew, that next-generation cpus are going to a pain in the butt to program.  

Many programmers will have throw out what they currently know about single-threaded programming and think in a vastly new way.

[nemo_83]

I talked to a programmer and he said the reason that the console manufacturers are going with multiple cores is because, "it is a lot cheaper to put two 2.5 GHz chips into a machine than it is to put in a single 3.5 GHz chip."

But it costs the developer more money.  The console makers are passing the debt on to third parties, and third parties will pass it on to us who will not buy their seventy dollar remake of Tony Hawk.

Next gen graphics will do more harm than good.  We need a revolution.



Edit:  oh yeah, I've been signified by Vudu.  

[vudu]

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Edit: oh yeah, I've been signified by Vudu.

Yes you were.  But Ian Sane said something today that was just so funny I had to replace you.  Sorry.

[nemo_83]

Quote
Originally posted by: vudu

Quote
Edit: oh yeah, I've been signified by Vudu.

Yes you were.  But Ian Sane said something today that was just so funny I had to replace you.  Sorry.

what is the context of that quote?  he sounds pissed.

[KnowsNothing]

It was mentioned that some people may find mice with two buttons complicated.

Left or right?

[Renny]

Your other left. No, the other one.

[stevey]

"The amount of time it takes to get a good multicore engine running, the Xbox 360 might not even be on the market any longer. That should scare the crap out of everybody. If writing in-order code [in terms of difficulty] is a one and writing out-of-order code is a four, then writing multicore code is a 10."

Dosen't the rev have single core? So this might mean that everyone going to turn to the rev because they cant make game for any other system.and then sony and ms will die a horrible horrible painful death  

[KDR_11k]

If writing in-order code [in terms of difficulty] is a one and writing out-of-order code is a four, then writing multicore code is a 10.

Either he is confused or he means it's easy as f-. Out of order code sounds like he means code for out-of-order-Execution, definitely easier than writing optimized code for in-order systems.

Anyway, as the PS3 troll on Slashdot would say, "Valve is a bunch of peecee fanboys that think just because they can crap together a pile of code with their DirectX SDKs they're authorities on console development". Seeing what a desaster the code for HL1 and 2 seems to be I tend to agree, Valve doesn't strike me as a company capable of adapting to "uncommon" (read: embedded) architectures. They have zero console experience, outside of x86 development in-order cores and even multithreading are part of everyday work. Seasoned console developers are apparently already used to in-order code, multithreading might not be solved yet but I'd be damned if it won't be soon. Never mind you're not really working on a multicore CPU on the PS3, just one CPU with lotsa helper units.

Embedded systems and multithreading are what separates a self-taught coder from a computer scientist. Sounds like there'll be even less unorganized garage development next round.

Stevey: I thought we agreed on "we know nothing about Rev specs"?

[Galford]

Are you the same KDR that posts on Slashdot???
Just wondering...

Here's another article about the Cell, kinda technical...
http://www.realworldtech.com/page.cfm?ArticleID=RWT072405191325

I love how they compare Cell to Itanium...

[KDR_11k]

I think I'm the only guy going by the name of "KDR_11k" on the whole internet.

[vudu]

Quote
what is the context of that quote? he sounds pissed.

It comes from this thread:  Is the RevOlution based of the Mac Mini and if so ...The full quote is

Quote
"For new users that's a BIG deal, the second button psyches them out and they sit there all day asking 'left click or right click?' This way they can become comfortable with a one button system and be introduced to the idea of multiple buttons later, when they're ready."
Oh God. Do these same people have difficulty with driving a car? Left pedal for brake or right pedal? Oh no this car has a THIRD pedal. I'm f*cked.  There comes a point where it's just "if you can't get this, f*ck off".

[nickmitch]

I wonder if it'll ever stop being funny.

[nemo_83]

He does have a point.  And it is pretty funny.  But I think the satin slang is also pretty funny.