Author Topic: Something important to know about the Revolution (Read 94377 times)

KDR_11k · « **Reply #100 on:** January 25, 2005, 09:40:26 AM »

Which reminds me that we know zero about the speed or price of these media.

Sunshine_HappyPants · « **Reply #101 on:** January 25, 2005, 12:03:45 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: couchmonkey
At the end of the day, I think Nintendo should choose the format that is best for it's true purpose: games. .

Yes yes YES! And, given it's flexable storage capacity and inherant rewritability, blu-ray has exponentially more potential in terms of games than does HD-DVD. I really wish I could make the following sound more informed and exciting in the PGC front-page fashion that we all know and love, but I'm no writer. Let me just say that having a rewritable media would allow Nintendo to ressurect and refurbish all of the brilliant and, dare I say, "revolutionary" features that remain to this day a 64-DD idle boast. Assuming Nintendo establishes a network infrastructure of some sort by then, things like bonus tracks in Mario Kart and new songs in Donkey Konga could be downloaded onto your revolution while you're away, asleep, or even playing a different game automatically onto the Revo's HDD, and then written onto the Mario Kart/Donkey Konga game disk at a later date freeing up valuable drive space for things like game-saves and other awsome downloadable features that I dream about and prematurely declair to be awsome. It'd be like Xbox live meets RAND-NET meets a mound of cocaine, do you follow me?

I havn't slept in about 2 days, sorry if I ramble.

Another thing about the prospect of Nintendo having to pay a royalty to Sony for each disk....

Before we get hung-up on that one again, I say we examine the upcoming format war in a little more detail.
In HD-DVD's corner we have Toshiba, Sanyo and NEC, the latter-most being the rumored manufacturor of the Revolution's processor(s). In the oposite corner we have, of course Sony, and yet another colaborator by the name of Matsushita AKA Panosonic. Given Nintendo's considerable clout with Panasonic I'm pretty sure they could utilize BR in the Revolution without ever giving Sony a thin dime.

...The NEC item seems to suggest HD-DVD however, which is why I still think this is the safer bet. But given the Big N's ties with both electronic firms, maybe the possibility of the Revolution using both formats may not be entirely out of the question. It might be some sort of dream arrangement with Blu-ray being utilized in game software and HD-DVD soley for video playback! Huh!? I can always dream, but not if I never sleep, so I'm going to bed before I freak out.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #102 on:** January 25, 2005, 08:14:22 PM »

I'd prefer my original media read-only in case something happens. But they could use a second form of BRD as a memcard substitute.

Besides, NEC doesn't supply the Rev processors, IBM does. And it would strike me as un-nintendoish to support two formats for video playback.

ruby_onix · « **Reply #103 on:** January 26, 2005, 07:43:29 PM »

Matt from IGN Cube says in the IGN mailbag that he doesn't know anything about the Rev's format, but that he pretty much thinks that Nintendo has always been incompetent about storage media, so he thinks that Nintendo will go with standard, ordinary, pirate-friendly DVD for the Revolution.

odifiend · « **Reply #104 on:** January 27, 2005, 02:33:10 AM »

Yeah, he was really an asshat about that one.

bmfrosty · « **Reply #105 on:** January 27, 2005, 12:36:45 PM »

Well. If nintendo uses a cartridged optical disc (like the latest rumors seem to think), they can build a memory card into the cartridge. The traditional memory card comes in only as overspill. This would also kill the need to include a hard drive. It's function in the XBOX was mostly as a Giant memory card. The playstation used it as a big cache for final fantasy and other games that were badly inhibited by the ps2's slow dvd drive.

Cube_King · « **Reply #106 on:** January 27, 2005, 06:59:18 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: bmfrosty
Well. If nintendo uses a cartridged optical disc (like the latest rumors seem to think), they can build a memory card into the cartridge. The traditional memory card comes in only as overspill. This would also kill the need to include a hard drive. It's function in the XBOX was mostly as a Giant memory card. The playstation used it as a big cache for final fantasy and other games that were badly inhibited by the ps2's slow dvd drive.

Well if Nintendo wants to take the Revolution online, which they have stated that they want to, I think it would be better if they built a hard drive into the console.

nemo_83 · « **Reply #107 on:** January 27, 2005, 09:28:44 PM »

i don't like the ideas i've been reading about games you buy levels as you go. games should be viewed as complete works like movies, songs, and paintings. you make something as a whole and release it as a whole. you don't work something part by part.

bmfrosty · « **Reply #108 on:** January 27, 2005, 10:55:50 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Cube_King

Well if Nintendo wants to take the Revolution online, which they have stated that they want to, I think it would be better if they built a hard drive into the console.

That's a minimum extra $50 per unit for a perepheral that gets mostly used as a crutch by lazy developers. Nintendo would be much smarter to take advantage of moore's law. Put a usb port and power source on the bottom of the console, make the system capable of dealing with usb mass storage devices (external hard drives, thumb drives). Release specs and guidelines for using a USB HD to the developers in such a way that they can use one without breaking other developers's data. Any third party can release a USB MSD that fits snugly on the unit, any developer can make use of it as extra storage.

When the killer app comes that needs a hard drive is on the table, Nintendo can release the peripheral as a pak-in ala FFXI.

Spak-Spang · « **Reply #109 on:** January 28, 2005, 03:35:12 AM »

For that matter. How about just putting a USB port and allowing cosumers to use Flash drives to go online. 256MB memory should be enough to safe any games going online, and if it isn't you can use your PC to save and organize all your game files.

It would also allow you to do cool stuff like edit photos to put into your games, create custom music files to play, and much more.

Truthliesn1seyes · « **Reply #110 on:** January 28, 2005, 11:56:46 AM »

The problem with giving people options and not providing them as standards upon release is that it divides the market. Everyone will have a different setup for their systems and some might not be able to support individual games. It'll be hard to track who has purchased storage devices for their systems and who hasn't. I say just supply the HD off the bat. I'm sure Nintendo will come up with better uses to it than MS. They can maybe even bring back some of their old 64DD Ideas.

Spak-Spang · « **Reply #111 on:** January 28, 2005, 04:20:29 PM »

TRUTH: Simple Nintendo creates a USB storage device with the minium memory requirements say 256MB. Then tells developers design your game with this much memory in mind. Nintendo makes it cheap enough, but gamers have the option to buy higher end models, as long as its compatiable...which savvy 3rd party hardware developers will advertise on the packaging.

Noble~Feather · « **Reply #112 on:** January 30, 2005, 03:11:40 PM »

Quote
Matt from IGN Cube says in the IGN mailbag that he doesn't know anything about the Rev's format, but that he pretty much thinks that Nintendo has always been incompetent about storage media, so he thinks that Nintendo will go with standard, ordinary, pirate-friendly DVD for the Revolution.

And he's more wrong than Michael Jackson.

jimbojim · « **Reply #113 on:** January 30, 2005, 03:35:48 PM »

Noble Feather- whatever you know (if you really do), I hope its really worth it.

BigJim · « **Reply #114 on:** January 31, 2005, 12:44:42 AM »

For what it's worth, the few things I know about Revo is that the Xbox 2 has more RAM. LOL. Other than that, spec-wise they are relatively similar. That's just the systems themselves, not including any of Nintendo's would-be secrets. Whatever the secrets are, they're likely to be controller or I/O-based.

Second, even many EA people don't have any real idea what Revolution is about. Nintendo's not likely going to talk until the spring when they're ready to trickle out a few REAL dev kits for developers to look at. Comparatively, Xbox 2 development is well under way. PS3 development is happening to a lesser extent. And Revolution is almost not at all. (I'm talking EA, and can't speak for any other developers.)

What you can likely take from that is that Xbox is launching first, and if the PS3 and Revolution launch in a similar time frame, the PS3 will have more games in volume at launch. But what else is new?

Take those nuggets for what they're worth (virtually nothing). I'm not too concerned about saying it's from an EA person since it's untraceable. The specs were very briefly posted on a projection screen during an EA all-hands meeting last summer or fall. Can't trace that when there are hundreds of suspects.

Commentary:

Flash isn't really a desireable option for storage, other than game saves. That type of media is SLOW. They're getting faster, but there's no indication that they'll attain a decent speed, at a cheap enough price, in the next year.

A basic 40 meg HD in mass quantity is considerably less than $50 per unit. That's their common retail price. If you believe the Revolution will sell at-cost or slightly under, you're only looking at a low 2-digit cost as an OEM part, and thus only that much added to the system price. For the speed and capacity consideration, a HD is still the better choice.

Hard drives will become important because of the way graphics are headed. You need a fast storage medium to load the high-res textures from. You can't just pull it off a disc as-needed anymore. That's load time mayhem right there.

Famicom · « **Reply #115 on:** January 31, 2005, 02:16:36 AM »

I have doubts that Ninty will go with a BRD format. One factor in this that no one has brought up is durability. It has been said (sorry I can't find a link of it now) that BRD is far more sensitive to scratches than the average optical disc, and needs to be kept in a jewel-case like casing at all times (I'm assuming the hardware opens/removes it for playback), while HD-DVD can be manufactured similarly to the old DVD format. TDK has created a special "coating" that supposedly makes optical media damn near impervious to scratches (I think some DVD-Rs like these are for sale currently) and has been said to be working with BRD in the future, but who knows when/if that will ever happen. The point being that the Rev should have chosen a format already, and HD-DVD is more "complete"/safe than BRD is.

EDIT: Found a link. Even with the discs slated to be ready by the end of 05, I still don't see Ninty taking the risk.

Avinash_Tyagi · « **Reply #116 on:** January 31, 2005, 04:42:26 AM »

Quote
Matt from IGN Cube says in the IGN mailbag that he doesn't know anything about the Rev's format, but that he pretty much thinks that Nintendo has always been incompetent about storage media, so he thinks that Nintendo will go with standard, ordinary, pirate-friendly DVD for the Revolution.

That alone proves him an idiot, nintendo has never been incompetent about their media formats, the whole point has been to prevent piracy, and its worked.

That's the key to finding out what ninty will use next gen, what format will give them adequate capacity, while preventing piracy.

This is why i don't see Blu-ray or HD-DVD or normal DVD being the formats, all three are too easily pirated.

jimbojim · « **Reply #117 on:** January 31, 2005, 05:36:39 AM »

what format is available beside BLu-Ray and Hd-DVD?

Avinash_Tyagi · « **Reply #118 on:** January 31, 2005, 05:50:11 AM »

heres a listing of some types of removable media available:

CD-R
CD-RW
DVD+R
ZIP
DVD-RW
Super DLT
3480
Clik!
9840
Mini-disk
SD1
AIT WORM
Bernoulli disk
UDO Rewriteable
DD-R
Professional Disc for DATA
Magneto-Optical disk
Floppy disk
DVD-RAM
8mm tape
WORM disk
Jaz
ADR
SyJet
DVD-R (8cm)
1/2" reel tape
DVD-RW (8cm)
SD-3
LS-240 (SuperDisk)
DIR
PocketZip
DD-RW
DVD-RAM (8cm)
DAT
QIC
Travan
SLR
AIT
Ditto
Magstar
CD-RW (8cm)
PD (rewritable)
DVD+R (dual layer)
DTF
Iomega REV
9940
SparQ
S-AIT
3590
DVD-R
DLT
LTO Ultrium
DVD+RW
LS-120 (SuperDisk)
CD-R (8cm)
VXAtape
SyQuest
3490E
Peerless
ORB
Irwin
HiFD
UDO Write Once
Professional Disc for DATA (rewritable)

Now most of these are not ones which are viable alternatives.

Nor is this a complete list.

But my point is there are other storage formats available, as a result there are alternatives to using one of the three DVD formats.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #119 on:** January 31, 2005, 07:10:05 AM »

Well, the Gamecube disks were DVDs but altered to prevent interoperability with burners. Such alterations are a lot easier and cheaper than a wholly different format. And besides I'd prefer my BRDs in those floppy-style cases.

jimbojim · « **Reply #120 on:** January 31, 2005, 08:18:44 AM »

thanks for the format list

BlackNMild2k1 · « **Reply #121 on:** January 31, 2005, 09:56:58 AM »

you forgot the most promising one
Holographic Versatile Disc or HVD

it reported to hold up to about 1TB (1terrabyte = 1024gigabytes)

Imagine this disc resized to GC size, it could still have 500gb on a tiny disc

or THIS disc from Hitachi - it holds 200gb.

shrunk to a 3" disc it could still hold 80-120 gb

norebonomis · « **Reply #122 on:** January 31, 2005, 11:53:24 AM »

doesn't the gamecube spin it's disks backwards? i'm to lazy to walk over and test it out...

BlackNMild2k1 · « **Reply #123 on:** January 31, 2005, 11:54:29 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: norebonomis
doesn't the gamecube spin it's disks backwards? i'm to lazy to walk over and test it out...

no.

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #124 on:** January 31, 2005, 01:52:46 PM »

The discs are read backwards...

News:

Author Topic: Something important to know about the Revolution (Read 94377 times)