Topic: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer

[IceCold]

I don't like that they're just modifying it. Why not a whole new game?

Because Nintendo's intention is that these games didn't get enough exposure first time around because the cube wasn't as popular as Wii is, so they are giving these awesome games a second life, it worked for Capcom and countless companies including Nintendo themselves with the SNES to GBA remakes.

I understand that, but as it stands these new gamers will be getting a watered down version of the game which provided the most pure fun for me last generation. I don't like the in-between ground - either make a whole new Jungle Beat game specifically for Wii, or if you're not changing it much, keep the gameplay experience as close as possible to before. Of course, it's impossible without the drums, so I'd much rather them go for a brand new experience. Ah well, I don't have to buy it.. the new levels are tempting me though.

Anyway, this is all moot because as Luigi Dude said Tokyo EAD is probably working on a new game (hopefully Pikmin 3!)

EDIT: Just read about the checkpoints.. ugh. One of the best parts of Jungle Beat is its fluidity and the way you can string combos together. I can't see it any other way.

[Mario]

woooooow. I like this. They're making it a game that more than seven people can get into, and yet there's still hate. I love the original. This is a good idea. they're not going to release the bongos again so change it up to make it work like a real platformer. The level design is almost there, just needs some tweaking to work with controllers instead of drums. Should be a fine game. More levels are great too.

The thing is they might be changing it to something that really wont be as special. Running through the game with checkpoints where people think the main goal is to avoid the baddies would be pretty boring. So people who missed it the first time will be like "is that it?". It's about how the game is presented to the new players, the fears I and possibly others have is that the "new players" this game will be aimed at are complete morons.

Also Nintendo rejecting the bongos is heartbreaking...

[MaleficentOgre]

If they do it right then it won't be an issue. Without the bongos the combo thing goes away cause it isn't as hard anymore. so you have to change the level designs and enemy placement to work more with a controller. I personally have a lot of hope for this port. Y'all should chill out a bit and wait for some concrete information and perhaps, just perhaps, wait until you can play it yourself before you freak out and condemn this as a total failure.

[Ian Sane]

The funny thing is that this actually makes me MORE interested in the game.  I didn't buy Jungle Beat because I was really turned off by the bongo controls.  Maybe I didn't give it enough of a chance?  But I played it in store demos and the whole thing felt unnatural to me and, well, stupid.  It had the same problem that I have with waggle.  The controls seemed designed not to be practical but to attract attention.  I didn't find using the bongos fun, I found it annoying.

Still why are they putting this much effort into a remake of a game that is only a few years old?  And they're not even using the unique capabilities of the remote.  This is what I complained about when the Wii-makes were announced.  They're putting the kind of effort into these that could easily be applied to new games.  Hell it doesn't even have to be a new IP.  Make a new Donkey Kong game!

And it looks like this isn't to make use of the Wii's unique features but rather to resell Cube games to an audience that didn't buy them the first time.  They essentially did that with Mario Strikers and Super Sluggers and now they're doing it here.  Nintendo probably sees those Cube games as a waste.  It's another demonstration of exactly who Nintendo's true focus is on.

Though Nintendo may have thought they could remake Jungle Beat using the same controller scheme DK Barrel Blast had but then changed their mind when everyone justifiably sh!t all over it.  It might be use traditional controls or abandon the project outright.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

"Maybe I didn't give it enough of a chance?  But I played it in store demos and the whole thing felt unnatural to me and, well, stupid."

Gotta play it sitting down, in your own environment.  It's a type of adrenaline-rythm game masked by the guise of platforming goals.

[Mario]

Mario Strikers made use of one amazing Wii feature and that's WiFi. =D

[Adrock]

The funny thing is that this actually makes me MORE interested in the game.  I didn't buy Jungle Beat because I was really turned off by the bongo controls.  Maybe I didn't give it enough of a chance?  But I played it in store demos and the whole thing felt unnatural to me and, well, stupid.  It had the same problem that I have with waggle.  The controls seemed designed not to be practical but to attract attention.  I didn't find using the bongos fun, I found it annoying

Ugh, Jungle Beat would have been completely awful without the bongos. That was the whole point of the game. Sans bongos makes the game entirely useless. If I wanted a boring and crap Donkey Kong game, I'd just track down DK64 on ebay.

[Mario]

I'd play Donkey Kong Country

[Bill Aurion]

I'd play Mario VS Donkey Kong...

[Ian Sane]

If I wanted a boring and crap Donkey Kong game, I'd just track down DK64 on ebay.

I actually *ducks* kind of like Donkey Kong 64.  It's a fun platformer that's just hurt by:

1. The DK Rap
2. Candy Kong getting into furrie porn territory
3. Overambitious game design.  Rare just made it too big.  Too much collecting, too many mini-games, too many playable characters.  When there's so much to do it makes you feel like you have to do everything and then all that stuff becomes like a chore.  But if you just want to beat it instead of a 100% it it's quite good.  Not really 88% on Gamerankings good but definitely not a bad game.

[Deguello]

But I played it in store demos and the whole thing felt unnatural to me and, well, stupid.  It had the same problem that I have with waggle.  The controls seemed designed not to be practical but to attract attention.

And it looks like this isn't to make use of the Wii's unique features

Implying two different opinions at the same time.  If it isn't using "waggle," shouldn't you be happier?

They essentially did that with Mario Strikers and Super Sluggers and now they're doing it here.  Nintendo probably sees those Cube games as a waste.  It's another demonstration of exactly who Nintendo's true focus is on.

Groan.  Not this again.  Stop complaining about who Nintendo "focuses" on because they are focusing on exactly who you said they should focus on 3 years ago.  When every post is an irrational Anti-Nintendo editorial like this, and terrible ones at that, it's easy to just wash over your opinion, so you aren't convincing anybody.

[Adrock]

3. Overambitious game design.  Rare just made it too big.  Too much collecting, too many mini-games, too many playable characters.  When there's so much to do it makes you feel like you have to do everything and then all that stuff becomes like a chore.  But if you just want to beat it instead of a 100% it it's quite good.  Not really 88% on Gamerankings good but definitely not a bad game.

Gah, those flaws are exactly what makes it a bad game. You basically just said, "DK64 was a good game......... except for all the parts that sucked which was almost every part of the game."

/thread derailed

[Dasmos]

If they do it right then it won't be an issue. Without the bongos the combo thing goes away cause it isn't as hard anymore. so you have to change the level designs and enemy placement to work more with a controller. I personally have a lot of hope for this port. Y'all should chill out a bit and wait for some concrete information and perhaps, just perhaps, wait until you can play it yourself before you freak out and condemn this as a total failure.

Jungle Beat was perfection, basically announcing this game was coming to Wii with new controls made it a failure in comparison in my mind. Now to hear that they're mixing it up, adding new things, taking things out makes me worry even more. It's not going to be the same Jungle Beat that's for sure, all I can hope that it stands as a decent game despite being so far from the "true" Jungle Beat.

[IceCold]

The funny thing is that this actually makes me MORE interested in the game.  I didn't buy Jungle Beat because I was really turned off by the bongo controls.  Maybe I didn't give it enough of a chance?  But I played it in store demos and the whole thing felt unnatural to me and, well, stupid.

I actually *ducks* kind of like Donkey Kong 64.  It's a fun platformer

Note to self: Continue to be extremely wary of Ian's taste in games.

Jungle Beat is easily the best Donkey Kong game ever. It's innovation with an awesome nostalgic feeling, combined to form pure bliss.

[Mario]

If they want to take advantage of the Wii they should include WiFi scoreboards

Does Nintendo know how to do that?

[MaleficentOgre]

wow. ok.

[UncleBob]

Jungle Beat is easily the best Donkey Kong game ever. It's innovation with an awesome nostalgic feeling, combined to form pure bliss.

Disagree - Donkey Kong '94.

[DAaaMan64]

haha, I like DK64 too

[Ian Sane]

Stop complaining about who Nintendo "focuses" on because they are focusing on exactly who you said they should focus on 3 years ago.

It sure is easy to crap on someone's opinion when you make it up for them.  I never said they should focus on non-gamers.  I always felt Nintendo should target a wider audience by providing more variety.  But that's not the same thing.  They had that whole k!ddy image problem so having a few more games that teenage males wouldn't feel embarassed to play would be good.  Covering all the genre gaps.  No FPS games on a Nintendo console?  Then f*cking make one and get the ball rolling.  Cut back on franchise spinoffs and dedicate those resources to making new IPs and that aren't the same cutesy style that Pokemon, Mario and Kirby already provide.

If anything I was suggesting Nintendo be the hardcore gamer's console of choice since they had the talent to pull it off but due to a lack of variety and stubborn inflexibility they scared hardcore gamers away.  Nintendo was their own worst enemy and if they just stopped shooting themselves in the foot they could make a big comeback.

However some people felt my suggestion was too focused on casual gamers (a term that at the time meant people who buy Madden or just Playstation users in general - not non-gamers) or it would compromise who Nintendo was.  I maintained that Nintendo was defined by the quality and originality of their games.  All the crappy stuff about Nintendo like how they think "for everyone" means "for little kids" or their poor relations with third parties or their stubborn refusal to adopt good ideas they didn't think of first were not a part of Nintendo's identity.  Or at the very least no Nintendo fan liked them for their faults so changing those would not compromise Nintendo.  Keep the good, lose the bad.  The results would actually not be a change most Nintendo fans would really notice.  Nintendo has made non-cutesy games for example like Metroid, Perfect Dark, Fire Emblem and most versions of Zelda and they were all Nintendo classics.  Make a console that doesn't have a bunch of stupid obvious faults that give people excuses to ignore it, balance out the first party lineup better so it doesn't come across as being predominantly for kids or just being Nintendo franchise sequels and you're set.  Make people identify Nintendo with quality and originality instead of k!ddie games, endless sequels and inflexible hardware missing industry standard features.

Nowhere is focusing on the mainstream at the expense of Nintendo fans or dumbing down games in there.  Nintendo actually did the very thing people were scared I was suggesting: they compromised who they were to attract a wider audience.  And ironically I'm one of the few that cares.  This seems to be a good thing for some reason.  The funny thing is the audience I suggested Nintendo try to appeal more to is who they now appeal to the least.  They did exactly what I didn't want them to do.

Should I mention that DK64 is my least favourite of Nintendo's and Rare's N64 platformers?  It isn't like my favourite game or anything it's just not so terrible to be considered crap.  It's worth getting for cheap if you dug Banjo-Kazooie and want more of that style of gameplay.

[KDR_11k]

Tough choice: Last place and pleased fans vs first place and alienated fans...

[RABicle]

As a veteren of the Battle of Storm Hill, I'm not sure I like the way that motion controls will pretty much be left for beatdowns and nothing else. I'll just play my original copy with my bongos instead. I really hope they include bongo support anyway, just so when I rock up at a friends house (I carry the bongos with me wherever I go) I can show them how you're meant to beat off.

[Ian Sane]

Tough choice: Last place and pleased fans vs first place and alienated fans...

I don't think this was the only path to first place.  At the very least I think second place and pleased fans was a realistic goal, especially since the PS3 was such a damn joke for the longest time.  I'm quite certain they would have been better off than they were with the Cube.  I don't think they would have regained first place so quickly but they would have been considered serious contenders for the future.  Nintendo never entered the race without tying their shoelaces together first.  There's no evidence that that couldn't have competed in a level playing field.  You're pretty much assuming that someone who never did any training and tied their hands behind their back before every fight is a lousy boxer.  Well they don't HAVE to be.

[KDR_11k]

No, Nintendo was on a massive downward slide and pleasing the fans would in part have required to go the HD route like MS and Sony. That's a massive money sink and Nintendo has the smallest money stash out of the three and would go bankrupt first. This whole "console war" was an arms race about trying to push the graphics more and more. The problem with the HD generation was that normally priced consoles wouldn't be enough of a step up on the previous generation so they had to push so hard the price went up. Not just hardware prices, game development is growing too expensive. EA had massive losses (their stock fell over 50% within a few months!) despite increased sales and revenue simply because their costs were too high.

Nintendo was simply failing against MS and Sony and no matter how much you say they were holding back it's not likely that they would have done better after going next gen. Even if the PS3 was a joke it still had a lot of developer inertia and if Nintendo hadn't driven a spear into its ribs the PS3 might really have come from behind simply because developers didn't care enough to switch to a better platform.

[Dasmos]

If they want to take advantage of the Wii they should include WiFi scoreboards

Does Nintendo know how to do that?

**** that would be awesome.

[Deguello]

It sure is easy to crap on someone's opinion when you make it up for them.  I never said they should focus on non-gamers.

Yes you did.  You said Nintendo should make more "mainstream games" which basically meant you wish they were more popular.  Now they are more popular, because...

I always felt Nintendo should target a wider audience by providing more variety.

Which they have, and you rail against members of this new audience.  This argument is a loser, please try again.

No FPS games on a Nintendo console?  Then f*cking make one and get the ball rolling.

Uhm... they have.  Three, in fact.  They even bought Retro just for this purpose and published Geist on the GC.  The ball isn't rolling, because (according to some) third parties don't want to compete against Nintendo in a genre they have a game in.  (Although they have no problem making half-assed copies of Wii Sports and Wii Fit and such.)  So here's a no-win situation.  If Nintendo DOES make a game in a certain genre, third parties get scared off at the prospect of competing against Wii Fit and Wii Music (heh.) If Nintendo DOESN'T make in a certain genre, third parties assume there is no market for such and continue to shovel crap onto it.  This kind of circular reasoning was pretty damning to Nintendo until they seized the market through their own efforts and by their own hand.  Now third parties look like stubborn, stupid, idiots.  And it's win-win for Nintendo.  If Third parties do jump on board Nintendo's selling-faster-than-PS2 console, great, Nintendo gets stronger.  IF they don't, Nintendo gets even stronger because they will get most of the industry's money to themselves.

Nowhere is focusing on the mainstream at the expense of Nintendo fans or dumbing down games in there.

Prove where they did that.  Mario Galaxy has in one year, outsold Mario Sunshine's 6 year run.  Super Smash Brothers Brawl has, in half a year, sold exactly the same as Melee's 7 year run.  Even Metroid Prime 3, much maligned for it's supposedly poor sales, has done much better than Metroid Prime 2.  Hell even Fire Emblem, one of Nintendo's b-list series, has increased sales on the Wii and is even the 2nd highest selling "RPG" to come out of Japan this gen (this first being Dragon Quest: Swords. another Wii game) If anything Nintendo has MORE fans this time around.

In fact, I'll ask you a question.  Do you think Mario Kart Wii "scared off" hardcore fans?  Let's say, what.. 1 million hardcores get "fed up" with the Wii Wheel and said "ZOMG TEH GAME HAS BEEN CASUALIZED"  That would make the remaining fanbase from MArio Kart: Double Dash approx. 6 million.  So you must also think that Mario Kart Wii somehow magically attracted 4 million new people (and counting).  If you honestly believe that, then... well... I dunno.  That's pretty amazing.

Nintendo actually did the very thing people were scared I was suggesting: they compromised who they were to attract a wider audience.

Which "Nintendo" would that be?  The failing let's-please-hardcores-that-hate-us GC Nintendo?  The who-cares-about-Japan N64 Nintendo?  Nintendo has done enough slight changes in the generational transitions to be considered "compromises" to "who they are."  If anything the Wii harkens back to NES days, and a lot of people are thrilled.  Yet they've also mostly kept the same amount of games and the same type of games they usually make, while also making exactly SIX games thjat could be considered "non-games" on the Wii.  Nintendo still has, and still will make a majority of hardcore games, no matter what easy stories the "ZOMG Casual" are to write.

This seems to be a good thing for some reason.

Do you know why I applaud Wii Play's meteoric rise?  Why I high five my Nintendo fan buds when Wii Fit stormed the charts?  Why I grin with glee that Nintendogs is the highest selling game this entire generation?  Why I get giddy when I think that each Brain Age game has outsold GTA III?

Because that's more money for Nintendo, and more money for Nintendo is more hardcore games and better, more ground-breaking technology in the future.  Do you think Nintendo could possibly put all that profit back into sequels to all these so-called "casual" or "non-games?"  They could double the budget for ea-  They could tr- They could QUADRUPLE the development budget for a sequel to each an every one of these games, and still have hundreds of millions, if not a whole billions of dollars just laying around, waiting for a desperate third party, or a new idea from one of their new talents, or simply just spreading the money around evenly through out their studios.

A rising tide lifts all boats.