Topic: Where should Nintendo go from here?

[Triforce Hermit]

If Nintendo treats Splatoon correctly then they have a gold mine on their hands. Its different, its not the same rehashed **** that dominated the last generation of games, and it the goal isn't just kill. It is a very ambitious title. All Nintendo has to do is treat is correctly. This is kinda why Xenoblade didn't do so well. It was ambitious, but they didn't market it at all and the prices on it were outrageous, but even then it did very well.

[Ian Sane]

Ian, you have to look elsewhere to find your ambition in titles. In terms of scope, Skyward was pretty small. I will grant you that. But in terms of gameplay, it was huge. Motion control in Zelda? That's a dream come true.

As for the rest of Wii first party games, Super Mario Galaxy was certainly very ambitious and is still my favorite game ever. Metroid Prime 3 was certainly larger, more action packed than any of its predecessors AND it had some of the best Wiimote controls on the system.

But again, I see where you're coming from.

I personally disagree on Skyward Sword.  Or maybe the intentions were good but I feel that they spent so much time working on the controls that they neglected the rest of the game.

Super Mario Galaxy and Metroid Prime 3 are the sort of games I want from Nintendo but they're getting to be fairly old titles now.  Nintendo hasn't made a 3D Mario even remotely like Galaxy since Galaxy 2.  They've since moved to a fixed view 3D Mario that seems to be a deliberate attempt to make it more like NSMB.  We all know Metroid has since gone to **** (and I'm not sure what Nintendo's intentions were there) but Retro goes from making Metroid Prime games to retro-themed DKC 2D platformers.  See my point?  Mario and Retro Studios both went backwards.  The older games are ironically more ambitious than the newer ones.  That's fucked.

[Nile Boogie Returns]

The older games are ironically more ambitious than the newer ones.  That's fucked.

Isn't a good game simply a good game, regardless of the style/look? I don't get why you think Retro went backwards with DKC:TF. They had a choice of what game they wanted to make and they chose that. Metroid was on the table.  I think I get you. Ambition, expansion and scope are fine qualities to promote but not at the expense of refinement.




And while not owning a WiiU doesn't completely devalue your point, its hard (for me) to justify your stance when by and large the current library of games (WiiU/3ds) is some of Nintendo'd best work in years.


 I might be missing your point.

[Luigi Dude]

I personally disagree on Skyward Sword.  Or maybe the intentions were good but I feel that they spent so much time working on the controls that they neglected the rest of the game.

Skyward Sword has more dungeon content then any Zelda by far and much of that content is based around said motion controls.  Just because the overworld wasn't as large as Xenoblade doesn't mean it wasn't ambitious since that was never the goal.  They even said the goal of Skyward Sword was to make something that was one giant dungeon like experience, hence why all the overworld area's were like dungeons.

It's kind of easy for a game like Xenoblade the have a large world when the actual gameplay in it's world is no where close to as complex as the gameplay in Skyward Sword.  There's no puzzles in the environments that you're interacting with, no maze like structures that require different items to start changing said environment.  The world of Xenoblade only requires the designers to draw something and then call it a day.  The world of Skyward Sword required actual thought into how the puzzles in one area, can effect what going on in other area's.  Not to mention coming up with a lot of unique puzzles for each area that can take advantage of the new items the players keep receiving through out the game as well.  Combined with the fact many of these puzzles are part of the actual environment, yeah, it requires a lot more work to design something like Skyword Sword's world.

This is why the 3D Zelda are still the most unique kind of games out there.  Everything people love to compare 3D Zelda games to are nothing like 3D Zelda's since many lack even the most basic puzzles.  This is why a lot of other 3D games have larger worlds because the designers don't bother with puzzles since those are a lot harder to make, which frees the teams up to make larger worlds.

[Adrock]

The motion controls in Skyward Sword weren't 100% perfect, but they worked for the most part. The annoying thing about it was how Ghirahim in particular would just blocked 99% of your attacks. Even then, that's less the controls and more Nintendo's insistence on an antiquated battle system in which you just hold your shield up until there's a brief attack time window. I mean, Nintendo tried to add some flavor to it by having equipment that could break, but it was far too forgiving. You could mostly just shield up then occasionally dodge. Once a major fight was over, you could just get a new shield.

Personally, Skyward Sword's problem was that there was like 37 irritating bits. A few would have been tolerable, but collectively, it added up. Ambition wasn't really my issue. Rather, the game didn't execute that ambition well.

[Ian Sane]

The older games are ironically more ambitious than the newer ones.  That's fucked.

Isn't a good game simply a good game, regardless of the style/look?

It depends what you're looking for.  Nintendo doesn't often make poor games.  But I became a fan of Nintendo during an era when almost every game they made was ambitious genre-defining stuff.  So that's what I think of when I think of Nintendo.  It's what I want, it's what I expect.  Nintendo pulls enough annoying **** that that level of game design track record was needed to keep me as a fan.

[Stogi]

Ghirahim was easy as long as you knew that he tracked your sword. So if you were to attack outright, he would block it. But if you moved your sword to one direction and tricked him into anticipating an attack from that side, you could switch to another direction and score a hit (actually a couple because he opens up). That's all it was. Oh and also hitting back his daggers and attacking him FIRST just as he lunged at you. It was cake and honestly, brilliant game design.

[Nile Boogie Returns]

It depends what you're looking for.  Nintendo doesn't often make poor games.  But I became a fan of Nintendo during an era when almost every game they made was ambitious genre-defining stuff.  So that's what I think of when I think of Nintendo.  It's what I want, it's what I expect.  Nintendo pulls enough annoying **** that that level of game design track record was needed to keep me as a fan.

Fair enough. So in comparison to "old Nintendo", which current developer / console has what you are looking for, or is that void yet to be filled? I get you want "genre-defining" but I fail to see where Nintendo has failed in that regard, beyond the obvious FPS and GTA's ( joke all you want but LEGO CITY IS AWESOME). Some of the best games in their respective genres have graced either Wii/WiiU or DS/3DS in last 5 years or so. 

Action Game, Action RPG, 2D Side Scroller, Fighting Game, RPG, Adventure Game,  I mean you never see..."ROBERT DUVAL!"

[NWR_insanolord]

I don't think it's possible to be at that level anywhere near that consistently anymore. The games industry has changed and developed too much. It's not a matter of Nintendo being a lesser developer than they were before, the goalposts have just moved so far that no one is capable of that anymore.

[Ian Sane]

It depends what you're looking for.  Nintendo doesn't often make poor games.  But I became a fan of Nintendo during an era when almost every game they made was ambitious genre-defining stuff.  So that's what I think of when I think of Nintendo.  It's what I want, it's what I expect.  Nintendo pulls enough annoying **** that that level of game design track record was needed to keep me as a fan.

Fair enough. So in comparison to "old Nintendo", which current developer / console has what you are looking for, or is that void yet to be filled? I get you want "genre-defining" but I fail to see where Nintendo has failed in that regard, beyond the obvious FPS and GTA's ( joke all you want but LEGO CITY IS AWESOME). Some of the best games in their respective genres have graced either Wii/WiiU or DS/3DS in last 5 years or so. 

Action Game, Action RPG, 2D Side Scroller, Fighting Game, RPG, Adventure Game,  I mean you never see..."ROBERT DUVAL!"

The void has yet to be truly filled, though that doesn't make a Wii U the default purchase.  So I'm going to put up with terrible third party support, last gen hardware, and forced controller gimmicks for a company that no longer seems to be any more special than any other talented developer?  If I'm going to get safe stuff it's better to get it on a console that has better third party support so I have more to choose from.  On the N64 the third party trade off was worth it for the first party games.  If Nintendo is just going to be the safe Mario sequel guys they need better third party support or would work better as a third party developer themselves.  If I'm to buy a console where realistically it's just one dev that I'm buying it for they better be really going all out.

If Nintendo can't be the dev they once were then they need to become a good console maker.  They've been a **** console maker since the N64 and relied on being a superhuman game developer to balance that out.  Now they're merely a decent developer and an even shittier console maker.  Where's the selling point there?  "It's like the N64, but everything's worse!"  No wonder no one's buying it.

[Nile Boogie Returns]

Well my friend, as a multi-console owner myself I can safely say that this generation of Nintendo has already surpassed the N64 in almost every way not called Mario 64 and OOT.


I wish the Wii U had more ram available for the game. 1Gb of ram is just not enough but I would say that the power gap in-between the Ps4 and the Wii U is the least of Nintendo's worries.  Best New-Gen lineup by far and that doesn't look to change over the next 12 months if trends continue.

[Evan_B]

I would argue Nintendo HAS been going all out with Wii U, they're pumping out some quality stuff for the system and trying to hit every base they can.

The reason this won't work is because the Wii U is a console that is deliberately difficult to develop for so even if he Wii U managed to hit PS4 sales numbers (which is not happening) Devs still would rather work on underpowered PCs.

Strangely enough, I see Nintendo reaching out to many indies nowadays which is interesting. These Devs aren't making masterpieces here but I think Nintendo has been very open about the Wii U in the case that they do just that.

[rlse9]

The place Nintendo should go from here is back in time a couple weeks and make the deluxe bundle with Nintendoland and Mario 3D World a Black Friday deal everywhere for $250 with a store gift card, instead of it being $250 at Target in a week.  I think at the right price, they could have done very well this holiday season.  The lineup at this point is good, especially if it's a second system like it will be for most people.  But while the deals on the X-Box One were really good and it sounds like moved a ton of consoles, Nintendo just let the Wii U sit around at full price.  Maybe Smash and Amiibo helped them sell a good amount of consoles but the lack of deals this holiday season seems like it was a missed opportunity.

As far as what I'd like to see, Animal Crossing is at the top of the list.  It's the perfect game for having off TV play.  I'm excited about several of the games they've already announced, just supplement the list with a few surprises and maybe some collaborations with other companies, like they did with Hyrule Warriors, to add to the list of releases and I'll be happy.  I know it'll never happen but I'd love to see a Mario HD collection with Mario 64, Sunshine, and the Galaxy games.

[Adrock]

I went to Target today and Wii U was sold out. The only rational explanation for this is that I accidentally and momentarily stepped into an alternate universe where this actually happens. People were also wearing hats on their feet and hamburgers were eating people. I'm glad I somehow got the hell out of there.

But seriously, Wii U really was sold out. Granted, this was one retailer, but I'll take it as a good sign. It might have taken two years, but Nintendo finally has enough games to make the console desirable.

[Luigi Dude]

From what I've noticed from talking to gamers around where I live, Smash Bros seems to be the game that pushed many into finally buying the system.  Yeah there's still a lot of them that don't care about Nintendo, but these are the Call of Duty/GTA/Madden lovers who never really cared for the Wii or Gamecube either.  The people who still had an interest for Nintendo and owned the previous systems but hadn't bought a Wii U yet, the general sentiment was they were waiting until Smash Bros.

Of course this is just from around where I live so I have no idea what the situation is like in the rest of North America.  Still I wouldn't be surprised if it's a similar situation else where since Smash Bros did have way more hype among core Nintendo fans then any other game released by far.

[Mop it up]

I've seen stores sell out of Wii U systems in the previous two holidays, so I think everything just sells around the holidays regardless of what it is. If sales continue into the first months of next year, then it's more than just a usual holiday spike.

[Ian Sane]

I've observed a different Wii U sell out scenario.  My local Wal-Mart had no Wii U consoles in stock for months until the Mario Kart 8 bundle came out and they've been back in stock ever since.  It was like the Wii U wasn't selling well enough for that Wal-Mart to justify refilling their stock and now demand has increased where they will refill it.

[Mop it up]

For the first time, I actually saw a Smash Bros. ad last night... for the 3DS version. It didn't mention the Wii U version at all.

[marvel_moviefan_2012]

The whole time Gamecube was on sale I only ever saw one ad for it one time, on G4. It was for Super Mario Sunshine. The only Wii U add I saw was when DKC:TP was brand new, it was on Nickelodeon I think, say it flipping the channels. Nintendo is either not very effective in their advertising or they really do believe their audience is mostly children.