Topic: Wii U - e3 is over... now what?

[NWR_insanolord]

They could go the route of Activision on the Atari 2600 and mail you iron-on patches for getting high scores.

[nickmitch]

You mean the best route?

[NWR_insanolord]

As a slightly more realistic suggestion, it's been brought up before that Nintendo could offer club Nintendo coins as part of their achievement system, either in addition to or as a portion of those you get for registering the game.

[Lithium]

As a slightly more realistic suggestion, it's been brought up before that Nintendo could offer club Nintendo coins as part of their achievement system, either in addition to or as a portion of those you get for registering the game.

Right now i don't care for them but something[size=78%] [/size]like that would make trophies/achievements worthwhile, I might even bother to get them.

[Dasmos]

Tangible? They're exactly the opposite of tangible. I can't touch or use these trophies. They're completely superfluous and are essentially used to artificially extend the playtime of a game.

How they any different than something like a high score table? Those are arguably even more superfluous.

Score based games are a little different, because really gaining high scores is the aim of the game.

My gripe with these achievement systems isn't so much the task of doing the required actions to get them, but rather the reward, which is nothing. I would rather a system more in line with the recent Mario games where I can unlock new characters, levels and other little easter eggs by playing the game more. It's completely optional and most players won't go the extra mile, but there's a definite reward for the ones who do.

Give me developer diaries and concept galleries, give me alternate costumes, give me multiplayer characters, give me different game modes, give me something for my effort.

[Mop it up]

Many Nintendo games already have achievements, so I would be surprised if they didn't implement an online achievement system into the Wii U. Even if they don't plan to use it for every game, they have to realize that it's one of the features that the "hardcore" gamers like on the other systems, so they will need one, at least for third-party games to use, if they want to appeal to that group. As for me, I don't really care about achievements unless they unlock something. Games need more rewards, less acheesements.

Super Smash Brothers already has both kinds of achievements that PS3 and XBox 360 have, text notices and trophies. I don't know if this could work as a system-wide system though, as making special trophies for each individual game is probably a bit much.

As a slightly more realistic suggestion, it's been brought up before that Nintendo could offer club Nintendo coins as part of their achievement system, either in addition to or as a portion of those you get for registering the game.

I don't think they will be Club Nintendo coins, but I wouldn't be surprised if this were the Wii U's way of earning play coins, since you can't really carry the Wii U tablet with you like a 3DS.

[TJ Spyke]

No one is making you get the achievements though, and I always think/say that when I see people say they don't like them. They are 100% optional, and there for those interested. They are just bragging rights, I admit that, but it's there for people who like another way to show off or like the developer giving them new challenges. I will say that I despise achievements that require online (specifically in EA games since they eventually turn those servers off, meaning you can no longer get those achievements) unless there is a way to get them offline too.

I have seen games that have optional modes where you get no reward for beating them, they are just there for those who want to do them.

[Dasmos]

Yeah, I just don't get the big deal about having to include them. I mean I'm pretty sure it's now mandatory for all Xbox and PS3 games to ship with them, so I don't blame developers for phoning them in.

[Chozo Ghost]

Even if you don't like Trophies and don't understand their appeal you should still support them being in the Wii U. Why? Because it does matter to people. It may not matter to you personally, but since it does matter to a lot of people it is important that the Wii U include them so that it can be on a level playing field as the competition. That's why you should be in favor of the Wii U providing it as an option, even if you personally don't care or like them.

If the Wii U does not offer trophies/achievements then what will happen is people who do care about them will avoid the WiiU version of multiplatform games and instead buy them on another console which does support them. This means the Wii U version will sell less and potentially receive less third party support over all. If you care about Nintendo or the success of the Wii U then you should want it to have feature parity. You don't have to use the features or even like them, but for the sake of the Wii U those features should be there.

[TJ Spyke]

Yeah, I just don't get the big deal about having to include them. I mean I'm pretty sure it's now mandatory for all Xbox and PS3 games to ship with them, so I don't blame developers for phoning them in.

Xbox 360 games (minus Indy games) were always required to, and PlayStation 3 game have been since January 2009. From what I have seen, most developers don't mind and some really enjoy them (even putting creative effort into them). If they don't want to, they could do something as simple as 5 achievements at 200 points each.

[broodwars]

I think you all already know where I stand on Achievement systems.



...yeah, I'm a little fond of them.   

Others have already mentioned the good aspects of achievement systems, so I don't need to elaborate on them much further.  They only add to your game, and the only thing of note they've ever removed was cheat codes (and even those have been steadily eroded away through the rise of DLC).  I like seeing a game reward me, however little, for doing something outside the realm of normal gameplay activity.  Some of my most memorable gaming moments have been in the course of chasing trophies, which have often showed me whole new ways to play the games I enjoy.

Some games, most notably Final Fantasy XIII, have even rewarded me for my excellence with unlockable XMB Themes (Fang from FF XIII was my reward for a hard-earned Platinum trophy, and I've had it as my XMB Theme ever since as a testament to dedication).  Others, like Xenoblade on the Wii, give you in-game rewards like XP bonuses for earning achievements, and that's great as well.  They're simply a great way to entice players to really delve into a game's mechanics and secrets, and I enjoy using the trophy system to see how far along my online friends are with games I'm also playing.  It's fun, costs developers very little time or resources to implement, and if you don't want to take part in the hunt you don't have to.

[Kairon]

Many Nintendo games already have achievements, so I would be surprised if they didn't implement an online achievement system into the Wii U.

...

Super Smash Brothers already has both kinds of achievements that PS3 and XBox 360 have, text notices and trophies.

What other Nintendo games have achievements? I've been worried that Nintendo has been/will be slow to "get" achievements because their traditional philosophy seems to be so predominantly based on intrinsic motivation, that playing is its own reward, with little attention to extrinsic motivation, that you "play" in the expectation of some external reward or feedback.

I think both can be valid, and gamers DO make purchasing decisions based on such things, so I hope Nintendo finds a way to include this sort of thing and give it their own spin. The Wii U game coin idea sounds epic!

Of course, personally it would leave a sour taste in my mouth if I felt I was being punished for not earning achievements in games.

[TJ Spyke]

What other Nintendo games have achievements?

Metroid Prime 3: Corruption

[Kairon]

3 qualifies as many? Right now I can only think of MP3, Streetpass Mii Plaza, and Smash Bros... Maybe Kirby's Air Ride makes four?

[Mop it up]

Wii Sports, Wii Sports Resort, and Wii Play all have the equivalent of achievements in the form of medals, which are pretty much the same thing. And the funny thing about that is that these are the games which people consider the most "casual." I also consider rewards for beating the game as achievements, so things like beating Super Mario Brothers and playing the second quest counts. So this includes games like Skyward Sword, where you get Hero Mode, and New Super Mario Brothers Wii, where you can unlock videos with Star Coins and open up World 9.

I consider these types of things as achievements, but more meaningful than a text box on screen because you actually get rewards.

[Sarail]

As mentioned above, Xenoblade includes Achievements/Trophies in the form  of "Accomplishments."

I just want Nintendo to incorporate a Trophy-like system ala PSN, but use Power Stars instead of trophies. Bronze, Silver, and Gold (Starman!) power stars could be used, and the coveted "Platinum" power star could be a green or purple star.

Ya know, give it a Nintendo themed spin. Doesn't have to be trophies or achievements. Power stars would be great -- just make sure it includes a rank up system where the more stars you collect, the further you rank up. Would be fantastic, and I'd be onboard instantly.

[Kairon]

I mentioned this in the handheld forum, but a robust Swapnote for Wii U would be absolutely amazing.

[Chozo Ghost]

Ya know, give it a Nintendo themed spin. Doesn't have to be trophies or achievements. Power stars would be great

What if it was based on the powerups from the Mario games? Imagine the Nintendo Network's equivalent of the Bronze trophy/achievement could be a Mushroom, and the equivalent of a silver trophy/Achievement could be a Fireflower, and a gold trophy/achievement could be an Invincibility star. But what would the Platinum equivalent be? How about a 1up Mushroom? Or maybe the 1-up mushroom should be the Gold and the invincibility star should be the platinum?

[TJ Spyke]

If I had the choice, I would want them to more emulate achievements than trophies. I think it's a better system.

[Oblivion]

It's the same exact thing.

[NWR_insanolord]

It's the same exact thing.

No, it's not. There are subtle differences, and I'd agree with TJ Spyke that I prefer the Xbox 360 Achievements system to the PS3 Trophies.

[broodwars]

If I had the choice, I would want them to more emulate achievements than trophies. I think it's a better system.

Personally, I don't care much for the 360's style of achievement system.  By lumping in all accomplishments under a single point system, it does make for easier comparison but on the other hand it also eliminates much of the meaning behind that comparison.  1 50 point achievement is easily canceled out by 10 5 point achievements. 

By contrast, you saw my trophy card.  I take pride in my 49 Platinum trophies, which are representative of 49 different games where I've acquired all the trophies available (which in 360 terms is 1000+ points).  I can compare my trophy card with another person's, and you can see the differences in the way we approach our games.

Both systems have their merit (the way trophy values are weighted in the PS3 system is harder to explain than just a flat point comparison on 360), but I prefer the one that gives you more information about the player.

As for Nintendo's trophy icons, perhaps they should make their "Bronze" trophy a Mario Kart Blue Shell.  Given how much effort it usually takes to unlock a Bronze trophy, the Blue Shell feels appropriate.   : : :

In all seriousness, I think Mushroom->Flower->Star->Big Gold Coin (ala New Super Mario Bros.) would work fine.

[Chozo Ghost]

Nintendo shouldn't emulate either system, but instead make their own system which is superior to both. They should however look at both systems for inspiration.

[Kairon]

What about an achievement system based on the system in Super Smash Brothers for that game's trophies? Screw points, give me a model I can look at from any angle, and a little text to read up on background!

[NWR_insanolord]

Nintendo shouldn't emulate either system, but instead make their own system which is superior to both. They should however look at both systems for inspiration.

How, exactly? Both systems do it very well, and while I want Nintendo to include the functionality and do it well, the last thing we need is Nintendo putting a lot of time and effort into fixing something that isn't broken to win some kind of fanboy pissing contest.