Topic: Why should Nintendo drop the GamePad?

[marvel_moviefan_2012]

First of all it's so much they should as they could that I was pointing out, second of all dropping the price drastically would bring back support if they casual market returned in droves, the market Nintendo needs to stay profitable, third, it's not JUST third party support that will drop Nintendo themselves will stop investing in it if it's not profitable to do so, they CAN NOT afford to take another loss like they did, unlike Sony and MS they have nothing of value to sell off to hide losses, they can't bleed money forever and that's that they are doing right now. They also can not afford to drop the price but the market is demanding that hence why retailers are doing despite Nintendo doing it, that's a reality the machine is over priced for the market. Last, for godssakes Nintendo is NOT competing with MS or Sony anyways so those are not the types of games they will ever attract that segment of the market will never buy outdated hardware no matter WHAT fancy controller they give it, and even die hard Nintendo fans are losing interest because Nintendo themselves are losing interest. I doubt dropping the game pad will turn it into a Wii success but it could bring back a lot of the Wii Fit type of fans who are on a tight budget and won't buy a PS4 anyways. They could do N64 levels of sales and make a profit, Game Cube barely made a profit and so far Wii U is losing money and it's losing so much it offsets what the 3DS makes, that is not good business.


Also it really goes back to what you mean by 3rd party support, DUH the major cross platform games won't make it anymore, but they should have been able to for at least another year, you can't really believe that if Wii U was doing better being superior to PS3 it wouldn't at least be getting the SAME GAMES the PS3 is getting? Hell right now the Wii U has better games than PS4 but that is not stopping the best games from coming to last gen hardware right now so why is it stopping those SAME GAMES from coming to Wii U? SALES period.

I forgot to mention in that last part that the third party support that will come back would be the kind tailored for the Nintendo crowd anyways like what Wii had.

[Wah]

They should drop the gamepad and focus on handhelds, because lets face it they suck at home consoles (excluding the origanals). And nobody does handhelds better then nintendo.
PSP Blah doesn't even come close to the ds, (and plus they suck and have no good games).
So yes if they want to do consoles....Drop the gamepad.

[rlse9]

How is it that Nintendo can't afford to lose money but Microsoft and Sony can?  Aren't Nintendo the ones with enough money in the bank to lose money for 50 years or something like that at the current pace and still have money?  Sony's the company that has several divisions bleeding money and Microsoft is the company with tons of people saying they need to spin off several divisions of their company.  Nintendo can survive a few rough years if they need to.  Not that it's ideal, but they're not Sega with the Dreamcast.

At what price could the Wii U start selling large amounts of hardware?  I don't think it's $250, there's been enough deals with gift cards that the system has been available for close to that without an increase in sales.  $200 maybe?  Even if they eliminated the gamepad, they'd be taking even more of a loss to sell it at that price, plus the price of completely changing strategy again.  And they still don't have that killer app.  The Wii didn't sell because it was $250, it sold because Wii Sports was a phenomenon.  And Wii Fit kept things going.  Wii U has some great games but nothing that's attracting the masses.

[Shaymin]

Nintendo can't take a massive risk that could affect that nest egg because they don't have operating systems, office productivity software, or insurance money coming in to offset the losses from the gaming division.

[NWR_insanolord]

Nintendo can certainly afford to lose money; that doesn't mean they're willing to do so. They've got the cash on hand to eat the losses it would incur for a few years, they've simply chosen not to. Honestly, I don't think the price is the real sticking point at the moment. They could drop it to $200 and I still think they'd have a hard time getting the user base big enough to really change anything.

[ejamer]

I dropped my gamepad the other day. Gave me a scare (because who wants to replace that thing) but luckily it's built tough enough that there wasn't any damage.  Wouldn't recommend that Nintendo or anyone else try it though. You might not be so lucky.






More on topic, I agree that price isn't the issue at this point. Wii U is by far the cheapest "new" console out there, but people aren't buying and aren't interested. Even at $200, I don't think that the console has the buzz to draw in a big crowd right now.


You can blame that failure on many different causes - poor marketing, sparse software, unproven gimmick, whatever - but the fact remains that Wii U hasn't managed to really pique the interest of anyone other than the relatively small group of core Nintendo fans.

[Mop it up]

If the Wii U gets rid of the GamePad then it's just a PS3/360 with a lot less games. That would never work. It's hardly working now with the GamePad, but it would be a lot worse without it.

It would be like if the Wii dropped the Wiimote, then it would just be a GameCube. And in that case, it would almost literally be a GameCube.

Now we can say things like "it shouldn't have been underpowered to begin with" and regardless if that's true or not, the Wii U already exists. Too late to change anything like that now. Besides, I think Nintendo have bigger issues, some they can solve this generation, and some that will have to wait until the next.

[Stratos]

I think you just made the best post of the thread, Mop it up.


Nintendo has chosen their path this gen. They need to decide how to go down that path as best they can and adapt the lessons they have (hopefully) learned for future generations.

[smallsharkbigbite]

It would be like if the Wii dropped the Wiimote, then it would just be a GameCube. And in that case, it would almost literally be a GameCube.

The Wiimote drove consumers to the Wii, the Gamepad doesn't drive consumers to the Wii U.  As such, conversation about dropping it is relevant whereas conversation about dropping the Wiimote wasn't relevant.  If Nintendo didn't have the gamepad, they could have released the deluxe Wii U with redesigned Wiimotes at $250.  That may have drawn back many of the Wii consumers that bought a Wii for Wiisports and Wiifit and would be interested in a sequel to those games.


I like the Gamepad.  I get where Nintendo is going with the unified system and having 2 screens makes sense to merge the mobile market.  However, the bad thing for Nintendo is that Sony/Microsoft already copied the idea without requiring an additional investment by allowing ipads to connect with their new systems.  And at this point, almost everyone who would spend $350 on a new system has an ipad.  No, I don't expect them to copy the Nintendoland idea because it wasn't a popular game.  But they could copy Nintendoland on their systems.  And in some ways (multi-touch, resolution) the game could be better on their systems. 


Nintendo is probably stuck with the Gamepad because of technical issues.  But let's not pretend like it was innovative or a good idea at this point.  They keep snubbing their nose at industry and third party ideas.  That would be okay, if the consumer wasn't the driving force behind those ideas, but in general the consumer sides against Nintendo now. 

[Mop it up]

If Nintendo didn't have the gamepad, they could have released the deluxe Wii U with redesigned Wiimotes at $250.  That may have drawn back many of the Wii consumers that bought a Wii for Wiisports and Wiifit and would be interested in a sequel to those games.

Again though, this is a "what if" situation. It is far too late to do this now.

[smallsharkbigbite]

Again though, this is a "what if" situation. It is far too late to do this now.

That's your opinion.  Many people think that Nintendo should just scrap the Wii U now and release a new console.  It's probably not going recover and sell decently in its current state.  Not that I think I have the master plan to save the Wii U, but all options should be considered.  If they can't bring unique gamepad games to the Wii U, then maybe the gamepad needs scrapped.  They can patch in Wii U Pro controller support to probably all games except Nintendoland and not miss a beat. 


You think that the Gamepad is what sets Nintendo apart and is a selling point.  Most consumers don't agree with that.  The Gamepad may be a reason preventing ports and third party games from coming to the Wii U.  It also could be adding costs to 1st party games and causing delays.

More on topic, I agree that price isn't the issue at this point. Wii U is by far the cheapest "new" console out there, but people aren't buying and aren't interested. Even at $200, I don't think that the console has the buzz to draw in a big crowd right now.

Price is part of the problem, but not the only problem as you noted.  Saying price isn't the problem is like saying a BMW sells for $50,000 so selling a Honda Accord at $45,000 shouldn't be an issue.  People look at what's in the package and decide if an item has value.  People have determined that the Wii U isn't worth $350.  Now, yes, Nintendo could have done a better job marketing the features and they could have added more hardware to the Wii U so people would think it was worth $350, but it didn't work out that way. 


Nintendo chose their path as a "budget" console with the Wii.  They chose to ignore hardware standards.  The Wii U either needed to be clear that they were including standard features and they were no longer selling a budget console or it should have had a lower price.  We all know Wii U is more powerful than PS3/360, but not by much.  If forced to classify Wii U as PS4 level or PS3 level you'd have to say it's more in line with the PS3.  And the PS3 was on sale for $200 this last holiday season so you shouldn't have been too much from that price point to show consumers that the hardware/value ratio was worthwhile. 

[NWR_insanolord]

First off, Nintendo is not going to do this, even if it were the right thing to do. Second, I don't think it is. The GamePad isn't what's holding the system back; that would be the poor/nonexistent marketing and severe lack of software support. Dropping the GamePad doesn't fix either of those things.

[Soren]

No, I don't expect them to copy the Nintendoland idea because it wasn't a popular game.  But they could copy Nintendoland on their systems.  And in some ways (multi-touch, resolution) the game could be better on their systems.

I swear I think people said the same thing about Kinect/Move doing things better than the Wiimote and look what happened.

[smallsharkbigbite]

I swear I think people said the same thing about Kinect/Move doing things better than the Wiimote and look what happened.

As someone who owns a move and has a tried a kinect they do do some things better than the Wiimote.  And what does look what happened mean?  It looks to me like the Wiimote was first to the market and saturated the market before the other options came on the market.  Now they are fun additions to successful consoles.  Certainly the Wiimote was more successful but the other tech isn't crap and that generation is gone now. 

First off, Nintendo is not going to do this, even if it were the right thing to do. Second, I don't think it is. The GamePad isn't what's holding the system back; that would be the poor/nonexistent marketing and severe lack of software support. Dropping the GamePad doesn't fix either of those things.

I'm not saying I necessarily want them to drop the gamepad.  It just seems like every solution isn't going to happen so let's not talk about it and just continue with the sinking ship.  There are lots of things Nintendo could do, but they probably won't including fixing the two items you mentioned.  Then we are left with where we are at, a console that may be as popular as the Gamecube but trends point to not likely.  The Dreamcast sold 10.6M in about 3 years.  Can the Wii U hit that?  Are you comfortable with Nintendo's position now? 

[ejamer]

Again though, this is a "what if" situation. It is far too late to do this now.

...  The Gamepad may be a reason preventing ports and third party games from coming to the Wii U.  It also could be adding costs to 1st party games and causing delays.
...

You've given a lot of opinions that I disagree with, but any argument is pointless because it's just two conflicting opinions. But this seems like a stretch.

The gamepad is not what prevents games from coming - at least not directly. Instead it's because of the power, the architecture, and the third-party relationships that Nintendo has built/burned. Gamepad support is just the tip of the iceberg in this case... and if the other three issues weren't major roadblocks then third-party support wouldn't be an issue, gamepad or otherwise.

You could argue that Nintendo would've made a more powerful console if they hadn't included the gamepad. You could argue that they would've used a different architecture closer to what PS4/XBox One are using. But given Nintendo's history either claim would seem unlikely. More to the point, it wouldn't change the fact that Nintendo just isn't good at fostering and supporting third-party development.

[smallsharkbigbite]

I have argued those points, but at this point everything on those shortcomings have been discussed.


I'll concede 3rd parties could just clone the screen on the gamepad and then you are just left with the power/architecture issues with porting.  I do think there is some truth to 3rd parties not wanting to deal with the gamepad though if they don't have unique ideas for it.  Nintendo has pushed the gamepad as a big reason to purchase the Wii U and Wii U owners have at least to some extent bought into the hype that the gamepad can help gaming.  If others are taking development time to bring unique gameplay items for the gamepad, your straightforward port is going to be seen as lacking compared to the competition.  Knowing what we know now, there really hasn't been any grandslam ways to utilize the gamepad.  But games take 18-24 months to develop, so why take the chance that your port will be considered lacking, but instead wait and see?  Most software developers are followers and take good ideas and expand on them.  Very few want to go where no-one has gone before.  It's part of why we are Nintendo fans because they are willing to go where others haven't.  But they don't always hit homeruns when they do it. 

[Soren]

As someone who owns a move and has a tried a kinect they do do some things better than the Wiimote.  And what does look what happened mean?  It looks to me like the Wiimote was first to the market and saturated the market before the other options came on the market.  Now they are fun additions to successful consoles.  Certainly the Wiimote was more successful but the other tech isn't crap and that generation is gone now. 

The prevailing thought was "well now Sony/Microsoft can do motion controls, maybe even better than Nintendo can. Wii is toast". As it turns out, Wii's problems then had nothing to do with competing consoles getting motion controls. The games simply never came and the peripherals became an afterthought. So the notion that just because Sony and Microsoft can go tack on second screen features on their consoles and do it better than Nintendo, who based their entire console on a second screen experience, might be a bit of a stretch.

[smallsharkbigbite]

Ah, okay.  I was mainly dealing from the viewpoint that Gamepad usage has been disappointing, whereas the Wiimote immediately had some pretty compelling Gameplay justifying it's existence so I don't think the bar is as high to clear this time around. 


I think the better way for me to phrase that would be I wish Nintendo was able to drive new gameplay ideas with the gamepad and show those ideas to the consumer in a way that Sony/Microsoft would want to copy those ideas.  Then we could have the discussion about whether they could actually pull off copying Nintendo. 

[Spak-Spang]

The problem I have with the Gamepad, is where is the necessity for it.  Actually, all the ideas you can think of for the Gamepad and screen could be made into 3DS games.  There is nothing especially "console" about the experience.  Now, you can give a few good examples like Zombie U...and I will say great.  But that experience could have been played on the 3DS. 

And this is not to say that in house asymmetric gameplay isn't cool.  But asymmetric gameplay in and of itself is not that intriguing, because online gaming has been doing it for ages.  Now, it isn't in the living room in a party environment...but is that compelling enough for a gaming console?  Not really.

The Gamepad does have potential, and I am sure we will see some awesome uses for the controller that are fun and innovative.  However, I feel Nintendo chose the wrong path.  (I know I already wrote this here before) but it still needs to be pointed out.

Nintendo should have went for the SNES or Gamecube style console upgrade instead of trying to create a new Wii like experience upgrade.

By this, the Wii was a solid proof of concept.  However, it need to be improved, enhanced, and perfected...which I am sorry even with the Wii motion plus, it was not perfected yet.  Nintendo could have released an HD device that completely OWNED motion control, and made it the definitive standard into the future...but decided not to...and they sent a mixed message, with the Wii U.  New control and motion control.  Not a good idea.

However, Nintendo can't dump the controller or the system...though I wonder if Nintendo did dump the controller would they be able to release some of the RAM and processing power being used to send the data stream to the controller to make the system more powerful?  It would be interesting to see...though it might require a tweaking of the OS for the system. 

I wonder if developers could do that...have a Wii mote only system that is able to push and use resources that are typically locked away to make a richer gaming experience.
   

[Phil]

Dropping the GamePad wouldn't quite break it from a minor height, but I think dropping it from a medium height would break it.


Why Nintendo should drop the GamePad is to show how sturdy the device really is.

[Ian Sane]

The Gamepad has flopped as the intended "hook" to attract sales but the only advantage in ditching it is that presumably Nintendo can lower the price of the console without it.  But the weaker hardware is what really makes it incompatible with multiplatform development and the really unappealing aspect of it as that it has a very small lineup of games.  I don't think any potential buyer was turned off by the Gamepad, they just didn't care about it and that one feature is pretty much the entire justification of the console's existence.  Without it it's just Nintendo's PS360 equivalent released a mere year before those consoles were replaced.  I don't think ditching it would matter unless the price drop was so major that Nintendo could coast on offering it as a low budget alternative for about a year or so until their next console comes out.

If you're going to do something as extreme as removing the pack-in controller then I think outright replacing the Wii U is the better move.  I think that needs to be done ASAP to give the PS4 as little time as possible to build an insurmountable lead.

The other option is to, get this, make games that actually make good use of the Gamepad.  Wow, what a concept!  This is the whole damn point of the Wii U and Nintendo seemingly gave up on it immediately after launch.  If Nintendo wants to ride it out with the Wii U and wait a few years before replacing it then they need some big ambitious games to keep it going.  2D platformers aren't going to cut it.  It's got to be something like Pokémon Console RPG big or some big epic Zelda game that really goes nuts with the Gamepad like how Skyward Sword went nuts with Motion+.  If we get more Mario it would be big grand full 3D Galaxy-style Mario.  Nintendo needs their teams going for broke, not playing it safe.  The N64 survived with very weak third party support because Nintendo made each game count.

The plan seems to be to just do nothing.  Make the same play-it-safe games and just put along to irrelevance.  That's lame and I can see why this "drop the Gamepad" idea has caught fire because at least it's SOMETHING.

[Adrock]

Nintendo shouldn't even be thinking about replacing Wii U until they have something ready to replace it with ("ready" being the operative word here). They're in an awkward place right now. It's like when you're trying to grow your hair out and it just looks like a mullet. Cut it or deal with it for a while? Cutting it doesn't give you what you want if you want longer hair. It's important for Nintendo to not panic. Ditching the GamePad is a panic move especially since it doesn't fix anything. In fact, it's way more work for them AND it further confuses consumers. Releasing a new console just because it isn't Wii U is another panic move to avoid. If they rush a new console, it stands to suffer from the same problems Wii U had at launch. Weather the storm and make the next one better, the best it can be.

[rlse9]

Why Nintendo should drop the GamePad is to show how sturdy the device really is.

You sir just won this thread.

If you're going to do something as extreme as removing the pack-in controller then I think outright replacing the Wii U is the better move.  I think that needs to be done ASAP to give the PS4 as little time as possible to build an insurmountable lead.

I couldn't disagree more with that idea.  If Nintendo were to decide to bail on the Wii U now, I would not buy their next console.  And I'd imagine there's a fair amount of Wii U owners who would feel the same way.  To get something out quickly enough to not be too far behind the PS4 for it to matter they'd have to rush something out, there'd be a lack of games at launch, probably no third party support, gamers on other consoles would continue to ignore Nintendo, and the spiral would continue.  Maybe I'm wrong, but that seems like a bad strategy.

[EasyCure]

Why Nintendo should drop the GamePad is to show how sturdy the device really is.

You sir just won this thread.

If you're going to do something as extreme as removing the pack-in controller then I think outright replacing the Wii U is the better move.  I think that needs to be done ASAP to give the PS4 as little time as possible to build an insurmountable lead.

I couldn't disagree more with that idea.  If Nintendo were to decide to bail on the Wii U now, I would not buy their next console.  And I'd imagine there's a fair amount of Wii U owners who would feel the same way.  To get something out quickly enough to not be too far behind the PS4 for it to matter they'd have to rush something out, there'd be a lack of games at launch, probably no third party support, gamers on other consoles would continue to ignore Nintendo, and the spiral would continue.  Maybe I'm wrong, but that seems like a bad strategy.

Agreed. I honestly don't know why so many people just assume that canning the Wii U and releasing a new system right away is a good idea, even if Nintendo were to offer some sort of buy-back or trade-in program to those that already bought a Wii U. It's a much bigger risk to Nintendo and no matter what incentives they offer, it will just lead to more problems.

[Ian Sane]

They should replace a Wii U with a worthwhile product, not some half-baked product released in a mad panic.  But they should consider it a priority.  I don't think the Wii U has several years of life ahead of it.

They should have been considering a replacement once those sales projections had to be adjusted, though really they should have realized the situation well before then, that's just when they formally acknowledged it.  At the very least at this point they should be thinking "****, we have to replace this thing" and be planning accordingly.  And maybe it takes a few years to get something with a half-decent launch lineup of both first and third party titles.  It probably also takes some real analysis, potentially with outside consulting, to figure out what to do with the next console.  Frankly if Nintendo knew what sort of product to release they wouldn't have made the Wii U in the first place.

They need to do it right but they need to do it soon.  They can't wait a few years and then start serious plans for a successor.  No, they need to be working on this right now.