Topic: REVIEWS: Red Steel

[Smash_Brother]

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Originally posted by: Rhoq Maybe it's just me, but I am very forgiving of "launch" titles. With Red Steel, I truly believe that Ubisoft did the best that could, in the amount of development time they had in order to get the game in stores for the November 19th North American launch.

I agree and mostly because this game HAD to be initially developed on PCs and then ported to the Wii hardware when Nintendo finally got around to sending out finalized dev kits.

This is evident because Ubi had set their ambitions much higher than what I feel the Wiimote is as of yet capable of or at least higher than they had time to develop for.

Does anyone remember when finalized Wiimote dev kits were shipped to developers?

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother

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Originally posted by: Rhoq Maybe it's just me, but I am very forgiving of "launch" titles. With Red Steel, I truly believe that Ubisoft did the best that could, in the amount of development time they had in order to get the game in stores for the November 19th North American launch.

I agree and mostly because this game HAD to be initially developed on PCs and then ported to the Wii hardware when Nintendo finally got around to sending out finalized dev kits.

This is evident because Ubi had set their ambitions much higher than what I feel the Wiimote is as of yet capable of or at least higher than they had time to develop for.

Does anyone remember when finalized Wiimote dev kits were shipped to developers?

Wasn't it in June or May? Either way it was definately at the last minute. One thing I think people forget is that Red Steel has improved tremendously in visuals since the E3 demo, showing that they indeed cared about them.

[NWR_pap64]

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Originally posted by: VGrevolution

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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother

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Originally posted by: Rhoq Maybe it's just me, but I am very forgiving of "launch" titles. With Red Steel, I truly believe that Ubisoft did the best that could, in the amount of development time they had in order to get the game in stores for the November 19th North American launch.

I agree and mostly because this game HAD to be initially developed on PCs and then ported to the Wii hardware when Nintendo finally got around to sending out finalized dev kits.

This is evident because Ubi had set their ambitions much higher than what I feel the Wiimote is as of yet capable of or at least higher than they had time to develop for.

Does anyone remember when finalized Wiimote dev kits were shipped to developers?

Wasn't it in June or May? Either way it was definately at the last minute. One thing I think people forget is that Red Steel has improved tremendously in visuals since the E3 demo, showing that they indeed cared about them.

Which is ironic because the same people that said the game had vastly been improved since E3 and said the game had potential are now ripping it to pieces in its reviews...

Sheer honesty or journalistic hypocrisy? You decide...

[Pryopizm]

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Originally posted by: pap64


Which is ironic because the same people that said the game had vastly been improved since E3 and said the game had potential are now ripping it to pieces in its reviews...

Sheer honesty or journalistic hypocrisy? You decide...

So if an F student works a little harder and finishes the semester off with a 70% (let's call that a C-) average, the teacher's a hypocrite for saying he's vastly improved but giving him a low grade anyway?

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

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Originally posted by: pap64

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Originally posted by: VGrevolution

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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother

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Originally posted by: Rhoq Maybe it's just me, but I am very forgiving of "launch" titles. With Red Steel, I truly believe that Ubisoft did the best that could, in the amount of development time they had in order to get the game in stores for the November 19th North American launch.

I agree and mostly because this game HAD to be initially developed on PCs and then ported to the Wii hardware when Nintendo finally got around to sending out finalized dev kits.

This is evident because Ubi had set their ambitions much higher than what I feel the Wiimote is as of yet capable of or at least higher than they had time to develop for.

Does anyone remember when finalized Wiimote dev kits were shipped to developers?

Wasn't it in June or May? Either way it was definately at the last minute. One thing I think people forget is that Red Steel has improved tremendously in visuals since the E3 demo, showing that they indeed cared about them.

Which is ironic because the same people that said the game had vastly been improved since E3 and said the game had potential are now ripping it to pieces in its reviews...

Sheer honesty or journalistic hypocrisy? You decide...

Visually, Red Steel is a mess =D

The fluidity, modeling and animation is wackier than Geist's (relative consoles abilities considered), so in that sense, it's like it lives up to Agent Under Fire's throne of mediocrity (remember that game?  one of the first FPSs to get early hype/hope last gen?).

Tho the advantage Red Steak has over Agent Under Garbage is it still seems fun.

[UltimatePartyBear]

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Originally posted by: Pryopizm

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Originally posted by: pap64


Which is ironic because the same people that said the game had vastly been improved since E3 and said the game had potential are now ripping it to pieces in its reviews...

Sheer honesty or journalistic hypocrisy? You decide...

So if an F student works a little harder and finishes the semester off with a 70% (let's call that a C-) average, the teacher's a hypocrite for saying he's vastly improved but giving him a low grade anyway?

Looks like the analogies have started.  Too bad.  It was a nice thread while it lasted.

[Pryopizm]

The point is something can go from ubersuck to almost not bad, and still be considered vastly improved.

[Svevan]

Analogies are the spice of life - live it up, PoopyBear.

[NWR_pap64]

You guys got me all wrong...

What I meant to say was that at E3, everyone complained about the controls, doubting the game's potential. Once the E3 demo was fixed and released onto the public, everyone said the game was better and had the potential of becoming one of the best titles at launch. Then when the final game was released, they trashed it as being one of the worst titles at launch.

See, the media was the one that hyped the game as being truly special (along with the fans). This is very common among the media, they praise a game greatly only to dismiss it as being average, or sometimes take a good game and overly exaggerates its potential.

There's no denying that some websites and publications are guilty of journalistic hypocrisy, and I think Red Steel is a bit of a victim of this.

[WindyMan]

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Originally posted by: pap64
You guys got me all wrong...

What I meant to say was that at E3, everyone complained about the controls, doubting the game's potential. Once the E3 demo was fixed and released onto the public, everyone said the game was better and had the potential of becoming one of the best titles at launch. Then when the final game was released, they trashed it as being one of the worst titles at launch.

See, the media was the one that hyped the game as being truly special (along with the fans). This is very common among the media, they praise a game greatly only to dismiss it as being average, or sometimes take a good game and overly exaggerates its potential.

There's no denying that some websites and publications are guilty of journalistic hypocrisy, and I think Red Steel is a bit of a victim of this.

It's easy to say that from an outsider's perspective.  Realize that there's a difference between what the publisher allows you to see and play in a limited demo, versus the full game.  If we like what we saw in a pre-release build, then of course we're going to be positive about it.  If the demo turned out to contain the only positive parts of the entire game, how would we know that until we finally get our hands on the full version and saw it for ourselves?  It's like looking into a box through a pinhole and seeing a small part of some object that looks good, then needing to form an opinion on the entire object based only on what you can see, without knowing if the stuff you don't know about is as good as what's visible.  We didn't do a 180 on Red Steel--we simply saw the finished product.

We're not hypocrites.  We're limited to what game publishers allow us to see.  Do you think someone like Ubisoft is going to show journalists all of the ugly parts of a game like Red Steel before it releases?  Not when they've spent millions of dollars on it and need all the positive press they can get on it to ensure higher sales.  We were all basing our opinions on an unfinished game before it was released.  Sure, it had potential.  After it was released everyone was of the opinion that it was still unfinished.  There's no doubting that.  Would the game been as good as we had hoped for had that potential been realized?  It's a moot point, because Ubisoft released what it released.

The bottom line is Red Steel is not all that good of a game.  It has plenty of awesome moments (there were lots of cool 'bodies flying' sequences), and the gun controls were terrific.  Any review will tell you that.  But the rest of the crap drags the game down so much that it becomes less worth it.  If all I told you was "plenty of awesome moments" and "gun controls were terrific" before the game was released, wouldn't you be excited about the game?  If yes, why are you blaming us when that's essentially all Ubisoft showed us in the Red Steel pre-release demos?  

[IceCold]

I read somewhere that previews and impressions affect sales more than reviews do..

[UltimatePartyBear]

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Originally posted by: Svevan
Analogies are the spice of life - live it up, PoopyBear.

There's nothing wrong with analogies per se.  I just have a pet theory that analogies are among the more flammable debate tactics.

[Smash_Brother]

Ubi was too ambitious for having too little time with actual Wii dev hardware.

Best case scenario: they had 5 months with ACTUAL Wii remotes, from May to early Nov when the game would need to go gold and be printing and shipping, and even that's being generous.

The game scenario needed to be fleshed out to the point where they knew what the player would see, go through, interact with, etc. beforehand. Up until then, everything was being done on PC hardware.

Red Steel isn't like Halo or Geist which both spent 2-5 years in development prior to release (Halo was in the oven a LOOOONG time). At the very best, RS had 13 months time in development, and that's saying they started developing IMMEDIATELY after the Tokyo game show. Then, the aiming and swordfighting mechanics had only 5 months in which to be honed and perfected.

Given these circumstances, I think the same team that gave us PoP and Splinter Cell did the best they could, and despite its flaws, I still enjoyed the game to the point where I'd reserve a sequel right now if one was announced, especially considering that Red Steel 2 would be developed entirely on Wii hardware, with MUCH more time with the Wiimote, and will have access to the WiiConnect24 dev kits which Nintendo decided to withhold from all 3rd parties for some idiotic reason (Pokemon has online play so what gives?).

And I'm glad Red Steel was a launch title because it gave the Wii the extra edge it needed in the west. If I remember correctly, it's the top seller in the US after TP. Despite its flaws, Red Steel went over VERY well with the PS2 crowd, the same group who were quick to label the GC as a toy for children before this. Nintendo (at least Reggie for sure) must have also wanted it for a launch title because Nintendo worked with Ubi to get the game developed and they showed it at E3 as one of the Wii's feature titles, that and Reggie recently defended the game from critics, which is atypical for Nintendo (you don't see them defending Super Monkey Ball).

But the average PS2 fan is likely so used to sh*tty, glitchy games that Red Steel is still awesome in their eyes: it's flashy, violent and let's them execute their enemies after defeating them. What more could the angry teenage gamer want from a game?

[Smash_Brother]

double post, sorry

[IceCold]

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Given these circumstances, I think the same team that gave us PoP and Splinter Cell did the best they could

Ubisoft Montreal makes those.. Ubisoft Paris made Red Steel.

[Smash_Brother]

Weird. I swear I remember reading somewhere that the folks working on RS were the same that did PoP and SC...

[vudu]

You're thinking of Assassin's Creed.

[stedaman]

Red Steel is disappointing..the controls are awkward. A 6 to 6.5 is the right score from my pov.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

ahahahahah