Topic: Official Sales Thread

[Deguello]

Jesus, what planet are Japanese third parties on where they think the 360 and PS3 are viable platforms?  I barely see any PS3 and ZERO 360 games at all on that list.

[Kairon]

I'm pretty sure that the Japanese companies working on 360 and PS3 games are looking to the Western markets for their profits, which can still be viable. The gaming market in Japan has been sickly for a looooonnngg time. Nintendo's reviving it via the Wii and DS, but outside of that there's little hope except to compete on American and European soil against a rising class of Western developers.

[Deguello]

But they aren't succeeding there.  And, if they really are seeking Western Gamers, they probably should be making Wii games anyway, because the Wii is the #1 console across all markets, including the Western markets.  Heck the Wii has sold more in America that the PS3 has sold worldwide.  This excuse holds no water anymore.

[Chozo Ghost]

Maybe third parties think that eventually their support of PS3/360 will pay off in the long run in Japan. Obviously it isn't now, but do you recall how the PSP was such a flop all over the world including in Japan? Well, thanks to a handful of games (mainly monster hunter games) the PSP has actually turned around and is now a success in Japan that was even outselling the DS up until the DSi model came out.

The same thing *might* be true with the PS3/360 (okay maybe not so much with the 360, because this is Japan, after all). If the PS3 is ever successful in Japan its going to be because of third party stubbornness and their refusal to abandon development for it. All it really needs is some must-have Monster Hunter type games. It really shouldn't though, and 3rd parties are stupid to persist, but I'm just saying that whether its stupid or not it could happen because it already did with the PSP...

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Reality Check.

PSPs are selling.  The library isn't.

[Kairon]

But they aren't succeeding there.  And, if they really are seeking Western Gamers, they probably should be making Wii games anyway, because the Wii is the #1 console across all markets, including the Western markets.  Heck the Wii has sold more in America that the PS3 has sold worldwide.  This excuse holds no water anymore.

There is one argument that MAY hold water still.

Third parties may simply be stuck in making HD games and refusing to go through what may be difficult changes in order to make games on the Wii. They may be spending tons of money developing HD games because they don't want to spend the money and effort to learn how to redirect themselves away from that focus. They may be locked into a pattern...

[KDR_11k]

Sunk cost fallacy. The idea that you already spent X on product Z and thus should keep spending money to put that spent money into use. The spent money should not influence the decisions, if you spent 40 million on a project and would need another 10 million to complete it but you could cancel it and pursue a more efficient project (e.g. 5 million for the same result) it's rational to abandon the old project. The idea is that you've already lost that money anyway and should make sure future spending is still used optimally rather than clinging to the project and wanting to "save" that investment.

Sure, it may be happening but that doesn't make it sane.

I'm pretty sure that the Japanese companies working on 360 and PS3 games are looking to the Western markets for their profits, which can still be viable. The gaming market in Japan has been sickly for a looooonnngg time. Nintendo's reviving it via the Wii and DS, but outside of that there's little hope except to compete on American and European soil against a rising class of Western developers.

A problem is that japanese devs don't know much about making games appeal to the western gamers and design them for their own market.

[Kairon]

In some cases japanese developers are still tops with the west. Fighting games for example are still a Japanese dominated genre. Capcom has a stable of franchises and games that are still highly competitive in the west.

Of course, with Namco Bandai recently creating the western oriented Surge publishing label, you can clearly see that they're worried about losing touch with the western markets exactly like you say they are in danger of doing KDR.

[Louieturkey]

In some cases japanese developers are still tops with the west. Fighting games for example are still a Japanese dominated genre. Capcom has a stable of franchises and games that are still highly competitive in the west.

Of course, with Namco Bandai recently creating the western oriented Surge publishing label, you can clearly see that they're worried about losing touch with the western markets exactly like you say they are in danger of doing KDR.

Square Enix also just recently opened up a US studio to make games for the western markets.  They see the sinking ship in Japan and want to make sure they are still viable if it actually goes under.

[SalesBot]

Media Create 12/22 - 12/28

Software
01. [PS3] White Knight Chronicles (SCE) - 207,000 / NEW
02. [PSP] Dissidia Final Fantasy (Square Enix) - 176,000 / 665,000
03. [WII] Animal Crossing: City Folk (Nintendo) - 144,000 / 876,000
04. [NDS] Kirby Super Star Ultra (Nintendo) - 141,000 / 920,000
05. [NDS] Wagamama Fashion: Girls Mode (Nintendo) - 105,000 / 547,000
06. [NDS] Rhythm Heaven (Nintendo) - 84,500 / 1,445,000
07. [NDS] Phantasy Star Zero (Sega) - 84,000 / NEW
08. [NDS] Pokemon Platinum (Pokemon) - 79,000 / 2,231,000
09. [WII] Wii Fit (Nintendo) - 71,000 / 3,051,000
10. [WII] Mario Kart Wii (Nintendo) - 70,000 / 2,066,000

11. [NDS] Momotarou Dentetsu: 20th Anniversary (Hudson)
12. [NDS] Professor Layton and the Last Time Travel (Level 5)
13. [NDS] Little Magician's Magic Adventure (Konami)
14. [NDS] Power Pro Kun Pocket 11 (Konami)
15. [PS2] Gundam Musou 2 (Bandai Namco)
16. [PSP] Monster Hunter Portable 2 G, BEST (Capcom)
17. [WII] Taiko no Tatsujin Wii (Bandai Namco)
18. [WII] Wii de Asobu: Pikmin (Nintendo)
19. [NDS] Tamagotchi Kira Kira Omisecchi (Bandai Namco)
20. [PS3] Gundam Musou 2 (Bandai Namco)
21. [WII] Karaoke Joysound Wii (Hudson)
22. [WII] Wii Sports (Nintendo)
23. [WII] Wii Music (Nintendo)
24. [PS3] Gran Turismo 5 Prologue Spec III (SCE)
25. [NDS] Animal Crossing: Wild World (Nintendo)
26. [NDS] Meccha! Taiko no Tatsujin DS: 7-tsu no Shima no Daibouken (Bandai Namco)
27. [PS3] Pro Evolution Soccer 2009 (Konami)
28. [NDS] Tales of Hearts: Anime Movie Edition (Bandai Namco)
29. [NDS] Genso Suikoden Tierkreis (Konami)
30. [NDS] Inazuma Eleven (Level 5)

Hardware

Code: [Select]

|System |  This Week  |  Last Week  |        YTD  |         LTD  |
------------------------------------------------------------------
|  NDS  |    245,150  |    254,452  |  3,946,585  |  25,119,635  |
|  WII  |    134,958  |    131,054  |  2,862,818  |   7,478,977  |
|  PSP  |    118,765  |    145,957  |  3,693,026  |  11,358,103  |
|  PS3  |     45,989  |     39,136  |    980,797  |   2,622,468  |
|  360  |     13,011  |     12,914  |    322,097  |     829,437  |
|  PS2  |     10,404  |      8,662  |    472,489  |  21,399,529  |
------------------------------------------------------------------
|  DSi  |    188,697  |    204,144  |  1,231,359  |   1,231,359  |
|  DSL  |     56,453  |     50,308  |  2,715,226  |  17,302,805  |
------------------------------------------------------------------

[Ian Sane]

A lot of popular videogames in North America are from Japanese developers and were designed probably with the Japanese audience in mind but still were popular in North America because they were good.  Was Nintendo designing Mario and Zelda specifically for North America?  What about Capcom with Mega Man, Street Fighter or Resident Evil?  Namco with Tekken and Pac-man?  Konami with Castlevania and Metal Gear?

There are certain genres that just don't fly in North America but there are tons that do and most Japanese third parties should have 20 years of experience in knowing what's what.  So when they decide to make a game, before they make it they just have to ask their American branch "hey would you guys typically bother localizing this?"  If they answer "yes", make it, if they don't then make something else.  They just have to look at what games they made for the Japanese market in the past was successful in North America and learn from that.  They don't have to make first person shooters.  We've got Western devs to do that and they'll do it better.  Make the type of Japanese games that North American gamers love.

[Kairon]

The real danger here Ian is that while Japanese developers may be more or less in tune now the future is unclear. The non-Nintendo market is becoming more and more dependent on Western markets and increasingly radicalized and evolving Western sub-culture tastes. In the past, it was Japan that lead that cultural evolution, but more and more western gamers are molding their own aesthetic identities instead of following Japan's lead. Separated from that roiling and mutating target by the Pacific ocean, there's always the problem that Japanese developers may not be able to keep up.

I can definitely see your point about Japanese companies short-changing themselves. They have what it takes to define and redefine this industry, why aren't they attempting to take a leadership position now? They've got a deep reservoir of homegrown talent... Maybe they just aren't flexible enough? I don't know. The Japanese have virtually defined the console game market for a long time, but maybe the PC-ization of game architecture perpetuated by Microsoft has given Western developers an opening to attack.

There's still one Japanese company that's doing radically defining work in the console market though. Nintendo has stuck to its guns despite uproar from fans, including you and me. They're still designing games for no specific market other than "gamers from 5 to 95" and they're still, for all intents and purposes, a purely Japanese entity.

[Ian Sane]

For me I always preferred Japanese devs because they seemed to have some real pride in their work.  Usually you were going to get a well-made game and it was likely going to be quite good as well.  If it sucked it was often because the concept just wasn't so hot.  To put it another way Japanese games always looked like they TRIED to be good but sometimes failed.

Western games however seemed to be have no interest in quality.  If the game was good it was like a fluke.  The developers managed to get something good in the time frame the publisher wanted.  If they weren't able to get it done in time though, who cares, it went out anyway.  Very corporate, assembly line game development.  "Get it out by this month, I don't care if it's good or not."  It's like a con.  Trick the peasent into buying our junk or maybe it'll be good if they're lucky.  The exceptions were usually arcade games as you can't make a junk arcade game or it won't attract any quarters.  But with a home console game, once that is sold it doesn't matter if the customer is pleased.  This wasn't quite as evident on the PCs and Western devs with Japanese publishers like Rare with Nintendo were not affected and followed more the Japanese model.

The Xbox did merge PC and console development and since the good Western devs were mostly PC developers it's no surprise that we've seen a comeback of sorts of Western devs on consoles.  But I think Japan still has that edge and Japanese devs can use that to their advantage.  American publishers just don't have the same amount of pride in their product.  The devs might but the publishers don't care.

[Kairon]

For me I always preferred Japanese devs because they seemed to have some real pride in their work.  Usually you were going to get a well-made game and it was likely going to be quite good as well.  If it sucked it was often because the concept just wasn't so hot.  To put it another way Japanese games always looked like they TRIED to be good but sometimes failed.

Western games however seemed to be have no interest in quality.  If the game was good it was like a fluke.  The developers managed to get something good in the time frame the publisher wanted.  If they weren't able to get it done in time though, who cares, it went out anyway.  Very corporate, assembly line game development.  "Get it out by this month, I don't care if it's good or not."  It's like a con.  Trick the peasent into buying our junk or maybe it'll be good if they're lucky.

Wow, I totally get what you're saying and agree with it on a gut level. I don't know if it's reality, but emotionally I feel the same thing sometimes. It's almost as if you can tell with games whether someone, somewhere, actually loved it and really, really, pushed it to be all it could be, even if it didn't turn out so hot in the end.

The exceptions were usually arcade games as you can't make a junk arcade game or it won't attract any quarters.  But with a home console game, once that is sold it doesn't matter if the customer is pleased.

That actually brings to mind Malstrom's latest blog about the Arcade Test.

[KDR_11k]

What traditionally Japanese genres are still around and popular in the west?

[GoldenPhoenix]

Western Developers have no drive for quality? Can't believe what I'm hearing, Western Developers have actually innovated stale designs especially with genres like the RTS, RPG (games like Fallout 3 are AMAZING. Not to mention great console games like KOTRO1/2 along with Mass Effect), the sandbox genre, improvement of things like AI, the sports genre, and they've even contributed heavily to the platforming genre (with Rare being one example), not to mention the FPS genre. These are only a few things I see that illustrate the quality of Western developers, just because they have different focuses doesn't mean they don't any less about quality. Believe it or not, but Japanese developers are businesses as well so they are under the same restraints with some focusing more on quality than others, just like any western developer.

[Kairon]

Mass generalization is a mass generalization GP. &P After all, if not for Nintendo, I'd probably be a Blizzard fanboi.

Actually GP... I think that Japanese developers are scared that you don't like them anymore. Have you been answering their PMs? You rarely answer mine nowadays... T_T

[Ian Sane]

Western Developers have no drive for quality?

Western PUBLISHERS don't and your examples are all recent.  I was talking about in the past before MS merged PC and console development.  And I mentioned that PC's seemed to be the exception as well as companies like Rare working for a Japanese publisher.

I challenge you to list me great non-Japanese console games from the post-crash era, prior to the arrival of the Xbox that are not published by a Japanese company and are not console ports of an arcade game.  You will be able to list some but they will not even compare to their Japanese contemporaries.  Until last gen, Japan ruled the consoles.

Look at the big western third party publishers:
EA
Ubisoft
THQ
Activision
Atari
Midway
2K Games

Do you associate ANY of those with consistent quality?  I don't.  I would never buy a game based on these names on the case but I will take an extra look if Konami, Capcom or Nintendo are involved.

[Flames_of_chaos]

Media Create Sales: 12/29 - 01/04

01. [PSP] Dissidia Final Fantasy (Square Enix) 104,000 / 770,000
02. [NDS] Rhythm Tengoku Gold (Nintendo) 89,000 / 1,535,000
03. [NDS] Kirby Super Star Ultra (Nintendo) 77,000 / 998,000
04. [WII] Wii Fit (Nintendo) 74,000 / 3,125,000
05. [WII] Animal Crossing: City Folk (Nintendo) 73,000 / 949,000
06. [PS3] White Knight Chronicles (SCE) 71,000 / 278,000
07. [NDS] Wagamama Fashion: Girl's Mode (Nintendo) 68,000 / 615,000
08. [WII] Mario Kart Wii (Nintendo) 67,000 / 2,133,000
09. [PSP] Monster Hunter Portable 2nd G (Best) (Capcom) 62,000 / 271,000
10. [NDS] Momotaro Dentetsu 20th Anniversary (Hudson) 57,000 / 204,000

11. [PS3] Gran Turismo 5 Prologue Spec III (SCE)
12. [NDS] Pokémon Platinum (Pokémon)
13. [WII] Karaoke Joysound Wii (Hudson)
14. [WII] Play on Wii: Pikmin (Nintendo)
15. [NDS] Phantasy Star Zero (SEGA)
16. [WII] Wii Sports (Nintendo)
17. [NDS] Professor Layton and the Last Time Travel (Level 5)
18. [NDS] Power Pro Kun Pocket 11 (Konami)
19. [PS2] Gundam Musou 2 (Limted Edition) (Namco Bandai)
20. [PS3] Gundam Musou 2 (Limted Edition) (Namco Bandai)
21. [NDS] Taiko Drum Master 2: The Seven Island Adventure (Namco Bandai)
22. [NDS] Animal Crossing: Wild World (Nintendo)
23. [PS3] Pro Evolution Soccer 2009 (Konami)
24. [PSP] Musou Orochi: Maou Sairin (KOEI)
25. [WII] Taiko no Tatsujin Wii (Namco Bandai)
26. [WII] Wii Play (Nintendo)
27. [NDS] Mario Kart DS (Nintendo)
28. [NDS] Tales of Hearts: Anime Movie Edition (Namco Bandai)
29. [WII] Wii Music (Nintendo)
30. [NDS] Penguin no Mondai: Saikyou Penguin Densetsu! (Konami)

Denki Hardware numbers
Hardware | This Week | Last Week |    LTD   
NDS      |   255,406 |   252,951 | 25,233,497
Wii      |   128,951 |   150,996 |  7,711,994
PS3      |    71,843 |    48,152 |  2,773,986
PS2      |    16,265 |    11,933 |
PSP      |   192,140 |   150,136 | 11,341,458
X360     |    20,505 |    13,968 |    871,688

[Deguello]

If you really want to see disparity between Eastern and Western developers, take a look at handhelds.

Japanese devs treat the DS like it is its own legitimate platform, worthy of time and effort.  Western devs treat it like a movie license dump.  Is it any surprise the best handheld games of all time are from Japan, and the mind struggles to even think of ONE relevant Western DS, GBA, or hell even GB game either in reviews, sales, or hype?

[KDR_11k]

Well, Soul Bubbles did well in reviews but it failed in the market. Among the games in my bag the only western ones (besides Soul Bubbles) are Brothers in Arms DS (B-grade port job), Barnyard Blast (B-grade sidescrolling platformer), Glory Days 2 (niche game, commercial flop and mediocre reviews I think), Speed Racer (I assume it's a western game, fared pretty well in reviews but judging by the pricedrops it got not in the market) and (not currently in the bag but would get moved there before I go on the commute again) Elements of Destruction (5€, need I say more?).

So yeah, the overall impression of western DS games is not very positive. There are a few niche efforts but that's pretty much it.

[NWR_insanolord]

I'm pretty sure Puzzle Quest is Western-developed and it's probably my favorite third party DS game.

[GoldenPhoenix]

The trouble with using publishers like EA, THQ and 2K as examples of "publishers not caring because they don't scream quality" is they are MASSIVE and publish a ton of stuff, while Japanese publishers have much less publishing power so they need to pick and choose which may or may not be a good thing. With publishers like EA there is a higher chance of a gem, that may be otherwise ignored, to be released. Also a few more western games I can think of is the MK series (From the SNES/Genesis era), Turok 1 and 2, Factor 5's SNES games (weren't amazing but they were solid), and Star Tropics which was made by a western developer even though Nintendo published it. Not to mention the sports games which had various gems here and there throughout the generations. Also Medal of Honor was once a quality series that burnt itself out. Hmm we also had the THQ AKI wrestling titles. Hmm let's see, we also had Ubisofts Rayman games which were once great platformers. Earthworm Jim was a good series as well that was a western game. Lucasart's also made some quality Star Wars titles for various systems. I have no doubt I'm missing several other quality western published titles.

I think if anything the reason for the Japanese dominating the consoles is because Western developers were mostly focusing on PC. This is mainly due to the fact that console gaming since Atari crashed has been dominated by Japanese made consoles. We have to realize that their have been hundreds if not THOUSANDS of clunkers coming from Japanese publishers as well. Every single publisher out there NEEDS to watch out for profit first, it isn't just the western developers. Japanese publishers for the most part need to be more careful and not take as many risks or they could start hurting really fast while an EA can take many more chances and in turn open it up for far more failures.

[KDR_11k]

We're talking about handheld games. Of course there are tons of great home console and PC games from western developers but they treat the handhelds as inferior systems that get crappy "ports" (that really have little to do with the original) of PC/HC games or birdman-style "casual" games (Ponyz 2...). Few make original and high quality titles for handhelds.

[vudu]

Is it any surprise the best handheld games of all time are from Japan, and the mind struggles to even think of ONE relevant Western DS, GBA, or hell even GB game either in reviews, sales, or hype?

GTA:  Chinatown Wars says "hi".