Topic: Anyone else just feel like the e-shop is too damn expensive?

[UncleBob]

It's funny, when I was skimming the thread, I thought the "ditto" was agreeing that it (the OP) seemed like a troll thread.  Didn't realize who posted the "ditto"...

[TJ Spyke]

I like how he decided to reply again 3 minutes later, but made a new post rather than just adding it to their existing post.

[Miyamoto]

This post feels like a troll attempt, but I'll respond anyway.

Ditto.

Wow, with great discussion points like this and totally ignoring the points being made, I don't know how I could've thought you might just be a lame troll.    Thanks for confirming - next time I see you post I'll know better.


 

Sorry but you raised absolutely no points that I found worthy of a response. I did however take exception to the trolling accusation.

[Miyamoto]

Yeah... umm..

How come we're talking about file sizes when discussing PSN downloads, but completely taking that out of the equation when talking about iOS/Android downloads?  If we're going to look at GB per Dollar for PSN purchases, how does that equate to GB per Dollar for an iOS download?

I brought up packet size because I thought it might be a factor as to why Nintendo charge so much more than the rest of the completion not because bigger size equals better value. But on reflection, in this day and age I really don't think the file size has any bearing on pricing, it's just Nintendo choosing to go in high.

Which must mean PSN's setup is the future and iOS/Android is DOOMED, right?

I'd just like to make it perfectly clear that at no point did I in anyway insinuate this but if that's your opinion then you're welcome to it.

[UncleBob]

In spite of what someone outside of a business mindset might think, a successful business does not set the pricing of their goods/services based on what the competition is doing, what the cost of delivering the goods/services are, how old the product is, how much use the customer will get out of the product, the quality of the product, etc., etc.

All of those types of things do factor in to determining the final cost to the consumer of the good/service - but, a successful (and "successful" is the key word) business ultimately sets their pricing based on one single thing... what the market will bear.

If Nintendo could sell NES game downloads for $50, they'd do it.  But they know that won't fly today (though, I'd be remiss to point out that a few short years ago, people were gladly paying $20 for NES titles - some of which, I believe, put out some pretty impressive sales numbers... one of which was taking in some decent bank on eBay last time I checked - a quick look finds a completed auction for $12+2).

And while Nintendo would be wise to consider the age of the titles, what the competition is doing, the strengths of the games (Link's Awakening is worth more than the asking price, Tennis?  eh....), ultimately, they're going to set the price at what the market will bear.  If people stop buying due to the price, then they'll consider changing prices.  However, w/r/t Wii downloads, I don't think the price is really what's hurting them.  As for 3DS downloads, I don't really hear much complaining about 3DS eShop sales.

[NWR_insanolord]

You probably hear less complaining about 3DS VC prices because it's been a while since there have been any games to complain about prices for.

[TJ Spyke]

Yep, the Classic NES Series version of SMB on GBA sold over 500K copies at $20 a pop. So Nintendo made around $10 million on what was basically a straight port of a NES game.

[NWR_insanolord]

It wasn't a straight port. It was an emulator and a ROM on a cartridge. And I bought at least three of them.

[TJ Spyke]

Pretty much what I meant. IIRC, the only changes they made with the Classic NES Series was changing the resolution to fit the GBA screen.

[Evan_B]

Well, I only have two 3D classics myself, and both were free... so I can't really complain about the price of them. Furthermore, I have twenty free games because I'm an ambassador, so again... I really don't have much to say about the pricing of the games. However, I've been pleased with the games that I have purchased from the eShop, like VVVVVV, Mighty Switch Force, Pushmo, and Mutant Mudds. Each title was definitely worth what I paid for them, especially when the prices were nowhere near a full-length game's price and still had a great amount of content. With Wayforward adding more levels to Mighty Switch Force, I feel that I'm really getting my money's worth- especially since I can buy four or five games and not reach the price of a full-length title. If anything, I think Nintendo needs to evaluate what they release as full-priced titles, because I got Sonic Generations and that certainly was not even worth the thirty bucks I payed for it.

TL;DR I think they're fine.

[leahsdad]

Just don't get used to paying $1 for video games. If you do, expect the quality to go down.

Especially because few to none of the IOS $1 games are truly $1.  They make their money by selling virtual fish food or extra outfits or paint cans for your virtual village.   I took my family on a long trip a few weeks ago and went onto the IOS app store to find games for my 6 year old.  I could barely find anything, after looking at over 300 apps.  Keep in mind, she was already way over Angry Birds, Tiny Wing, and Fruit Ninja.  Everything had some kind of stupid DLC attached to it.   Now, I've got in-app purchases disabled, but my daughter keeps coming to me when she's playing her stupid Winter village app saying "Daddy, I want to keep playing but the game says I have to buy more winter bucks."   You know what I tell her?  The game is broken.   I don't have the heart to tell her the truth, which would be "Well, honey, the people who developed this game are bad people and they're trying to fleece daddy's bank account a dollar at a time."   

You know what I did instead?  I downloaded Fun Fun Mini Touch Golf, and she had the time of her life on the plane.  She literally would not put it down until my 3DS ran out of batteries.  Okay, so that was only 3 hours, but still.....

I hate IOS games.  Because of the in-app bull.   I hate it so much, all parents do.  But until my kid gets older and I can explain that there are people out there who try to make money by being dishonest and misleading, and are basically selling paid demos, I'm going to have to either keep in app purchases off and keep telling my daughter that the games are broken, or give in and pay $15 for Strawberry Shortcake virtual dresses.

[ejamer]

... With Wayforward adding more levels to Mighty Switch Force, I feel that I'm really getting my money's worth...

TL;DR I think they're fine.

A good reminder: I need to go buy Mighty Switch Force. Didn't buy originally because I felt it was more expensive than I wanted for the amount of content, but with a free update I'm good with the price.


(Has the update already happened, or is it coming later?)

[leahsdad]

A good reminder: I need to go buy Mighty Switch Force. Didn't buy originally because I felt it was more expensive than I wanted for the amount of content, but with a free update I'm good with the price.

(Has the update already happened, or is it coming later?)

No update yet.  It's an awesome game that I love, love, love, but I'll be honest:  it's not for everyone.  The real lynchpin in its gameplay appeal is the par times.   If you're interested in beating the level within the par time limit, then the game is super fun and challenging.  If that kind of thing, beating a par time / getting all three star coins on every level / high score attacks/ etc. hold no water with you as a gamer, then....you might not be as thrilled with this game as everyone else.   The beauty of the gameplay really comes out with the sort of "economy of action" that you have to strategize and plan with before every level if you want to make par.

[Uncle_Optimus]

In this day and age, considering what you can get for the same price on iOS, PSN or Steam, the e-shop is just too damn much.

Greetings all, first post here.
iOS gaming seems to be rapidly redefining our concepts of "value" for software. Your post in some ways describe my own experience: a customer who as recently as 3 years ago didn't much bat an eye at shelling out $30 for a DS game...and if the game was $10-15 hoooo boy whatta deal!
About a year-and-a-half ago however, I got an iPod Touch and then stumbled upon Touch Arcade. Man, did that lead to a lot of games.
The key takeaway for me was that I realized my value-meter shifted...I was doing what you just outlined, lamenting a $30 pricetag. Coincidence or no, my purchases of DS software have plummeted in the last couple years.
There are other factors, of course...my age and ability to settle down with a game, a system at the end of its product life and correspondingly less relevant software being released, less disposable income for games, etc. Nevertheless, that I consciously thought "dang, I don't really feel like shelling out $30....$20...$15(!?) for this game" has been a shocker for me.
I am seeing more and more online opinions from people who have experienced a similar transformation.

My own peculiarities aside, on the topic of 3DS download games in particular, my feeling is that $7-10 dollars for a quality original digital production with good ol' "d-pad n button" controls is still decent value. If the game is largely a port, and the original is cheaper on another platform, I do think "whaaaaaaat" tho! And yeah, I am NOT down with a lot of Nintendo's VC pricing scheme (not to mention catalog choice) but I understand why they set it that way.

Who knows, perhaps increasing iOS traction will force them to reevaluate their pricing on digital storefront policies (like others here, I really hope they give developers more tools to sell and promote their wares)...or maybe their increasingly "core" 3DS customer base will prove resilient with the current value proposition?

[UncleBob]

I was with a group of coworkers recently.  One of them is also into Skylanders, so we were discussing the new Skylanders app.  He had me play it and it's really not all that impressive.  He said "There, I just saved you 99 cents".

Then, the group launched into a discussion that basically ended with the fact that this 99 cent app and my copy of Cut the Rope (although I've now downloaded the second one) are the only paid games the 6 of us had downloaded.

Let me tell you, this group - always tinkering on their phones.  Draw Something is pretty HUGE amongst them right now.  All techies, 4 of us are gamers (seriously, the other Skylander's guy brings his PS3 every time we have to stay at a hotel overnight), one isn't much of a gamer and the other is a somewhat lite-casual gamer.

If six people have only bought $3 worth of games... I seriously have to question the sustainability of such a business model.

Of course, none of this accounts for ad revenue...

[MegaByte]

Outside of the Humble Indie Bundles, I haven't bought any Android apps despite having hundreds. There's lots of good free stuff, but Amazon's pretty much obviated any need to buy any since almost all of the best apps eventually come up as one of their free apps of the day (and lots of junk too). It's not really sustainable except that apps are hot right now so there is currently a surplus of developers.

[Uncle_Optimus]

Uncle Bob, you describe an interesting circumstance and in my mind it is illustrative of the current iOS platform in several interesting ways (warning: fun with bullet points imminent)

• First is that the race-to-the-bottom has forced many developers without some well known property to adopt one of a range of free-to-play models. This has served games like Draw Something, Hero Academy and Temple Run very well...but these are certainly few and far between! Achieving that kind of critical mass seems to almost require some form of marketing serendipity on top of a tightly executed and well presented game.

• Second is that the low barrier of entry has caused waves of product to roll in and this has certainly made discover-ability an ongoing problem. iTunes lists are not good enough yet and honest-to-Bob good games are just buried. (Hopefully the developers of a good game earned their money in the first week or two). Sites like Touch Arcade have let me cut through some of the bullcrap...I downloaded personal favorites like Dungeon Raid, Battle for Wesnoth and Bar Oasis thanks to their coverage. But Touch Arcade can't do it all and a lot of what they cover is way out of my range of interest.

• Third is that the iTunes market does indeed cater largely to a casual gaming audience and this has the effect of repelling many customers in the higher-end "core" segment. One of the main reasons here is definitely lack of game sophistication... which may be another way of saying "lack of buttons" :p

• Fourth the attitude of large game publishers wrt mobile platforms is evolving but the current evolution is certainly rather low-end. Your experience with the Skylander's app seems indicative of this...another example would be many of Capcom's offerings (lookin atchu Mega Man), i.e. ports with shoe-horned control schemes. As platforms like iTunes mature I am curious to see if we see a reverse pricing effect or at least a steady segment of viable game productions priced at more consistent levels. Square-Enix would be my prime example here, with original efforts like Chaos Rings. Even their shoe-horn ports seem to reside in relatively more expensive realms (looking at 'Trigger and Tactics).

I would like to reiterate on point number two however...I think many established gamers could find worthy products for their money on mobile, as long as their gaming tastes intersected with genres that play especially friendly with touch screens (i.e. Adventure games, puzzle games, board games, RPG, strategy and action games that need only simple inputs). Discover-ability is not a problem on 3DS as of yet, mainly perhaps because of the size of the library - as of now, any release feels like news!


The main promise of the 3DS to me is its wealth of control options tho, but I am still worried it won't see significant developer interest. I actually hope Nintendo actively courts more of those proven small teams in the mobile space and it does NOT have to be for 3DS versions of their mobile games!


edit: Ninja bullet the Android market puts the iOS' Wild West to shame...it looks chaotic over there and recent news stories suggest an even higher magnitude of piracy...I wonder if Google can (or if it ever wants to) rein it in somehow:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/169124/Sports_Interactive_reveals_Football_Managers_high_piracy_rate_on_Android_.php