Topic: DS Titles - Official

[Myxtika1 Azn]

Quote
Originally posted by: Mumei
Hardware can have demographics (eg. 18 to 24 crowd buying a certain product far more than any other group), but I don't believe that it applies to video games nearly as much as some developers believe...

Yeah, I see your point.  Perhaps I should change "hardware" to "consoles".

[KDR_11k]

Kojima is an idiot, he loves spouting bullsh#t like that. I just wish people would stop thinking of him like some kind of god and realize he's jut a rambling idiot with a seriously overblown ego.

[Blackknight131]

I dont understand all the hostility there...Hideo Kojima expresses his opinion, you may not agree with it but it doesnt automatically make him a raving idiot.
Besides, his view of Nintendo's traditional market is shared by apparently the majority of the industry, as Gamecube's 3rd party developer support reflects. Nintendo themselves state over and over their own aim is to develop software that can be picked up by "children and adults alike"....and as Reggie stated in his E3 opening address, that stance is not going to change.
Do plenty of adults enjoy Nintendo games and consoles. Hell yes. Does the PS2 and by extension the PSP generally gravitate toward a more mature video game player? I really think the numbers do the talking there.
Its perception, yes...and one that is frustrating for fans of Nintendo like you and me. But that perception is reality right now, and changes can only come from the top, I think...and Iwata has been quoted as saying Nintendo is pursuing partnerships with American developers for games that appeal more to adults. Perhaps that will prove to be a big step in the long run...

That said, about Kojima: he has done Boktai and its sequel for the GBA, and seems to be quite excited to make all new kinds of games using the DS's unique hardware. If Boktai is any indication, I'd rather have that than MGS: Acid any day of the week (I'm not a huge fan of MGS style games or military shooters in general)

-Blackknight131

[WesDawg]

I know this is just semantics, but I take issue with the statment that Sony's consoles are more geared towards "mature" gamers. It's like calling porn "Mature" content. Certainly they're geared directly towards an older demographic, but the word mature don't fit there. In fact most things that are called mature in this industry seem more juvenile to me. Sony's consoles are geared towards teens. That's the truth. Anyways, it just pisses me off when I see that big M rating on games because they have lots of blood or cussing in them. Theres a huge difference between something being inappropriate for kids and something being mature.

[KDR_11k]

That's why they're just labeled 16 or 18 (actually they don't write 18, they write "no clearance for adolescents") here. Easy to understand numbers instead of confusing labels. You don't need to learn what they mean, they're written in plain german (and are legally binding...).

[DrZoidberg]

There, cleaned up the topic, that took a long time.

[Mumei]

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Kojima is an idiot, he loves spouting bullsh#t like that. I just wish people would stop thinking of him like some kind of god and realize he's jut a rambling idiot with a seriously overblown ego.

No, he isn't the rambling idiot... That would be Tomonobu Itagaki (Tecmo).  He is the most annoyingly arrogant developer I know... Go read his interviews and the gist of it is him talking trash about his competitors games and how his games are so much better and they are on the most powerful console and that he refuses to work on anything else.  Can someone shut him up for a bit?  What happened to the typically Japanese developer who wasn't an ass about his competitors games.  When you read most interviews by a Japanese developer, they praise certain things from competitors games.  All he does is act like an ass T_T.

[Blaster009]

Quote
Originally posted by: DrZoidberg
There, cleaned up the topic, that took a long time.

Now you need to clean up the "Developers pass on the DS because its the DS topic", since CasualGamer flamed up the joint in there too...  

[Blackknight131]

Quote
Originally posted by: Mumei

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Kojima is an idiot, he loves spouting bullsh#t like that. I just wish people would stop thinking of him like some kind of god and realize he's jut a rambling idiot with a seriously overblown ego.

No, he isn't the rambling idiot... That would be Tomonobu Itagaki (Tecmo).  He is the most annoyingly arrogant developer I know... Go read his interviews and the gist of it is him talking trash about his competitors games and how his games are so much better and they are on the most powerful console and that he refuses to work on anything else.  Can someone shut him up for a bit?  What happened to the typically Japanese developer who wasn't an ass about his competitors games.  When you read most interviews by a Japanese developer, they praise certain things from competitors games.  All he does is act like an ass T_T.

I actually find the guy to be generally pretty amusing in his interviews...hes often pretty frank and to the point. Thats refreshing sometimes. Less PC, y'know.

-Blackknight131

[KDR_11k]

Which one of the two on offer are you referring to?

[Mumei]

Quote
Originally posted by: Blackknight131

Quote
Originally posted by: Mumei

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Kojima is an idiot, he loves spouting bullsh#t like that. I just wish people would stop thinking of him like some kind of god and realize he's jut a rambling idiot with a seriously overblown ego.

No, he isn't the rambling idiot... That would be Tomonobu Itagaki (Tecmo).  He is the most annoyingly arrogant developer I know... Go read his interviews and the gist of it is him talking trash about his competitors games and how his games are so much better and they are on the most powerful console and that he refuses to work on anything else.  Can someone shut him up for a bit?  What happened to the typically Japanese developer who wasn't an ass about his competitors games.  When you read most interviews by a Japanese developer, they praise certain things from competitors games.  All he does is act like an ass T_T.

I actually find the guy to be generally pretty amusing in his interviews...hes often pretty frank and to the point. Thats refreshing sometimes. Less PC, y'know.

-Blackknight131

If he could back it up T_T.  Soul Calibur and Virtua Fighter >> Dead or Alive, and all he does is say that those games don't look as good... Who the hell cares, they play much better and are all-around better games >_>.

[Blackknight131]

In reference to Itagaki, Team Ninja's efforts have been generally pretty high quality. Ninja Gaiden of course leaps straight to mind...they make games how they want to make them, and they dont bother themsleves with details like "this might be too hard for some people". I respect that...at any rate, as long as his studio stays dedicated to producing quality software, I can tolerate a little eccentricity...

But you know, I actually happen to be a bigger DOA fan.
...
Im not much of a fan of fighting games tho, if that means anything...
Mwahahah!

-Blackknight131

[Sango]

Quote
Originally posted by: ShaolinKilla


3.  Wi Fi sounds great but i really don't understand it.  It's like online play but no wires?  How does it work?

With the Wi Fi the ds connects to the internet throught a hotspot like at starbucks or a wireless router like at a wireless home network and allow you to play against people all around the world. You can school your friends in UK while you sit and sip your coffee at a starbucks in the states

Right now I am gungho for the ds It can play all my old gba and gb games. The wifi is awesome because I have alwaysed want to beat my friends at a game but, Felt wierd taking a link cable or forgot to bring it. There are no excuses for friends who chicken out. The psp clearly has a better design because sony has tons of money to do it. But if you want a pocket dvd player just go to best buy and get one with a 5inch screen and cheaper than the psp price of 200+. The ds seems so awesome now I just want to play it. I hope that nintendo will clean up the ds desing a bit, but overall it's a solid system.

that's my two cents
 

[kirby_killer_dedede]

i think they're both terrific platforms.  DS will attract Ninty fanboys as well as kids (oooh 2 screeens coool) and others who see the truth that it is it is the only system worth spending hours with, while sony will attract...every1 else.  sony, as some1 said earlier, is very cool nowadays, and ppl are into multifunctionality.  the main reason DS will whop PSP's hiney is because it has one more audience: parents.  no sensible parent will buy their kid a 300 dollar toy they're gonna leave on the bus.  

[kirby_killer_dedede]

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
I see MGSA as the equivalent to Luigi's Mansion: A launch title with a gameplay fundamentally different from other games in the franchise.I bet five minutes after its release we'll start to hear complaints.

Five whole mintues?  You're being real optimistic.

And after reading Ian's interesting post (which should go down in the Book of Best Posts on PGC) on arcade gaming, I've realized I'm actually quite scared not of the PSP, but of the PSP2 (you know it's coming, folks).  I mean, the way I see it, if PSP's already practically as powerful as the PS2 (and they still have more than half a year of development time to put some more  juice into it), at the pace at which technology is moving nowadays, PSP's successor will literally be as powerful as PS3.  Sure, people like Ian will basically reiterate what he's stated in his post, but other Sony fans will say "Oh yaaaaaay!  Now I can play at home aaaaaand at TV-less Grandma's house!"  Also, if someone can answer this question I've got...is it that the developers at Nintendo are incapable of developing better quality graphics, or they're just trying to stick to this stupid philosophy?  I mean, I get where they're heading with it, but they inevitably know: graphics sell.  IDK, kinda stupid on Nintendo's part.

[mouse_clicker]

Quote
In reference to Itagaki, Team Ninja's efforts have been generally pretty high quality. Ninja Gaiden of course leaps straight to mind...they make games how they want to make them, and they dont bother themsleves with details like "this might be too hard for some people".

They also don't bother themselves with details like "this game is exactly like something else on the market", or "this game is so frustratingly difficult I'm not having any fun at all". It's good to see Team Ninja isn't worrying themselves with the details.

Quote
I respect that...at any rate, as long as his studio stays dedicated to producing quality software, I can tolerate a little eccentricity...

A little eccentricity? The man makes wild claims that his games are only possible on the XBox in the face of more impressive games on at least the Gamecube and then doesn't even explain himself! He actually called Tekken a "piece of ****" in an interview (he used those words), as if his own fighting series was any better. Itagaki may make some polished games but the fact of the matter is he's an arrogant, pretentious asshole who's money hat is pulled down so far over his eyes that he is incapable of making a single relevant comment on the industry.

[Mumei]

Wow.. I agree with almost all of that.  Except the thing about more impressive GCN games - I think that Splinter Cell looks best on the X-Box, and most games look a just a tad better.  But when it comes to the best looking first-party GCN games and the best looking X-Box games, the difference is just about negligible...

[mouse_clicker]

Ugh, don't start a technical debate- the point I was making was that Team ninja claimed games like DOA3 were only possible on the XBox when we've seen games on the Gamecube that clearly surpass it, such as Rogue Leader, Rebel Strike, and Resident Evil 4.

[Mumei]

Well honestly, I don't think that DOA3 is even close to the best looking X-Box game.... Look, I do think that his games could run on the GCN (well maybe a few resolution downgrades....), but the systems are close to the same.

[mouse_clicker]

I'm talking about a specific game, you're trying to do a system comparison. My point is Itagaki originally claimed that Dead or Alive 3 was IMPOSSIBLE on the Gamecube and could ONLY be done on the XBox, and yet there are clearly Gamecube games surpassing it, which either proves that Itagaki lied or he was making a very ignorant claim, neither of which are any good at all.  

[Blackknight131]

I wont start a technical debate. There can really be no debate in the face of hardware fact: the XBOX has the highest graphical potential ofthis console generation.
However, you guys make a good point about some of the Cube's games being absolutely beauiful....Metroid 2, Zelda and especially Resident Evil 4 spring to mind. These fabulous results are the fruits of development know-how and programming sweat. These guys absolutely know the Cube's hardware through and through and the results speak for themselves. So when Itagaki says "this game could not be possible on another system" I think hes right in a way and wrong in a way.
On one hand the sharp visuals of Ninja Gaiden or the textures in Halo 2 just dont seem feasible on the Cube's hardware, strong as it is. For example, a good looking Riddick may be possible, but again could not match the integrity of the XBox version (which of course doesnt bode well at all for the PS2 version...).
HOWEVER, many technical "limitations" usually seem to be worked around by the most talented developers. So in this sense when Itagaki says "not possible", I take it in some cases as "we really dont want to bother learning the hardware", as with DOA3. I have to admit tho, I just want DOA in some form for Cube.

...
....

Uh, at any rate, people are subject to their own opinions about Itagaki and what he says. However, I hope this quote:

Quote
They also don't bother themselves with details like "this game is exactly like something else on the market", or "this game is so frustratingly difficult I'm not having any fun at all". It's good to see Team Ninja isn't worrying themselves with the details.

Quote


isn't alluding to Ninja Gaiden on the XBOX. Its an awfully subjective opinion if it is, of a game that many people enjoy exactly for its refinement of the genre (I think a good number of people wouldn't hesitate to rate it over the likes of Shinobi and even Devil May Cry 1) and its no-frills difficulty.  No game of course is ever really for everyone tho, even if they are fans of its genre.

For the record, Devil May Cry made me do just do that, sooooo....

-Blackknight131

[mouse_clicker]

What'd I say about a technical debate? Are we going to have to get KDR in here?

In any case, yes, I was referring to Devil May Cry in my comment about Ninja Gaiden, and I don't see how anyone who has played both games couldn't come to the same conclusion- the similarities are apparent, right down to collecting different colored orbs, one to refill health and the other to redeem at various statues for an odd assortment of new abilities and items. Ninja Gaiden IS Devil May Cry with a Ninja, and a lot more frustrating.

They also ripped the wall running RIGHT out of Prince of Persia.

[Blackknight131]

Well, I won't argue that Ninja Gaiden borrows various gameplay mechanisms from other series....most notably it will definitely appeal to Devil May Cry gamers right off the bat...but I still maintain that borrowing gameplay mechanisms doesnt disqualify the game for what it is: a further refinement of the genre that Devil May Cry made cool to begin with.

The fact that it would make me cry with its demanding level of skill will be a blessing or a curse depending on who is playing it...I'll say tho, I would definitely look forward to watching some videos of the head to head online modes. For the players that have attained that level of skill, its very fluid indeed to watch.

-Blackknight131

Shout out to DOA.

[mouse_clicker]

No, no- Ninja Gaiden didn't just "borrow" gameplay mechanisms from Devil May Cry, it WAS Devil May Cry, down to the fine little details. The biggest difference was the main character was a ninja instead of half-devil. I'm all for the spreading of gameplay mechanisms, but only when the developer is going to refine and improve that mechanism. Team Ninja just took Devil May Cry, made it prettier, changed the locales and character, and called in "Ninja Gaiden"- that's called ripping off.

And I love hard games, don't get me wrong, but only when I'm still having fun. Ninja Gaiden is difficult to the point where I have no interest in playing it. Games like Viewtiful Joe or Ikaruga are incredibly difficult, too, but not at the cost of my enjoyment. They're difficult in such a way that I'm encouraged to keep trying. Ninja Gaiden pissed me off, Viewtiful Joe and Ikaruga never did.

And besides all that, Itagaki is still an arrogant, pretenious ass- there's no two ways around that.  

[KDR_11k]

Well, maybe DOA3 just uses too large textures? I mean, Quake 3 Arena wouldn't work on the GC since it requires 64MB of RAM. Of course that's not a reason if you put some effort into it, memory usage can always be reduced. For example, they could use one or two textures per model instead of one texture per UV group, which could save them a lot of texture memory, then they could downsample the textures (how many GC games use the same texture resolutions as XBox games?) or reduce the number of some decoration objects or such. DOA 3 as it is won't work on the Cube, but I think Itadaki didn't keep in mind you can't just do straight ports if you want decent graphics. Let's put it like that: ANY game would work on ANY modern platform provided you're willing to sacrifice graphics on the way. The N64 could probably run Pikmin if the Pikmin were sprites.