Topic: The Ultimate Showdown of Outcasted Consoles: Wii U vs Vita

[Phil]

Reusing the music from Wii in both U and 2 annoyed me pretty well. Freaking lazy as freak.

[Mop it up]

I think that the concept of a killer app doesn't really exist anymore. Technology has advanced past the point where new systems will bring with them a totally new kind of game that we haven't seen before. Wii Sports is an exception that managed to avoid this, but systems like the PS3, Xbox 360, Xbox One, PS4, Wii U, PS2, 3DS, DS, PSP, PSVita, etc. don't have anything that's a killer app.

Instead, for Mario Kart 8 and Smash Brothers, I imagine that the thinking for people here will be something along the lines of "Oh, a new Mario Kart/Smash Brothers game is out. There are a few other games I want for the Wii U also, so I think it's time I pick one up."

[MagicCow64]

I think that the concept of a killer app doesn't really exist anymore. Technology has advanced past the point where new systems will bring with them a totally new kind of game that we haven't seen before. Wii Sports is an exception that managed to avoid this, but systems like the PS3, Xbox 360, Xbox One, PS4, Wii U, PS2, 3DS, DS, PSP, PSVita, etc. don't have anything that's a killer app.

Instead, for Mario Kart 8 and Smash Brothers, I imagine that the thinking for people here will be something along the lines of "Oh, a new Mario Kart/Smash Brothers game is out. There are a few other games I want for the Wii U also, so I think it's time I pick one up."

I'm of this thinking as well. There's essentially nothing on Vita that couldn't be done better on the PS3 or PS4, and the odd high-quality exclusive isn't going to boost the hardware to a significant degree. And people pumping Borderlands 2 on Vita as some kind of game changer is just ridiculous. Really the Vita's main appeal (outside of acting as an expensive PS4 accessory) is playing console games on the go, which I personally don't find compelling. I don't particularly want a 3DS either for the same reason, though the software line-up still has a good amount of on-the-go Gameboy flavor. I did, however, own a DS even though I'm not a hand-held guy, and had a lot of fun playing Henry Hatsworth and Elite Beat Agents on the subway.

In the WiiU's case, I actually do think Mario Kart and Smash could pep up the platform a bit for the reasons Mop it Up mentions. Those are two highly popular multi-player centric experiences with a sterling history that will only be available on Nintendo platforms. I'm not expecting a miracle, but they could get the WiiU back on a Gamecube-level sales trajectory.

As for PS4/Xbone, I don't know if killer apps are really a thing. Titanfall is being pumped as such, but I doubt it's going to have much of an impact. A lot of big franchises have faded quite a bit over the last gen, so it's hard to see Gears 4, Halo 5, FFIV, etc. stirring up major sales spikes. The only thing that I think really qualified last gen was Gears of War, which was visually stunning at the time, but it's difficult to imagine a new IP blowing up the scene like that now that HD is well settled, and given the enormous proliferation of high-production value third-person and first-person shooters. Plus, the slow, cautious transition out of cross-gen titles is going to smooth the curve even more.

 

[Stratos]

The Killer App was killed by the Annualized Franchise. What used to be a multi-year build-up now has less than a year to build the same momentum and sink in with consumers before the next one is out of the gates running. At least make a two-year wait between releases so that the fan base has a chance to settle in and take root with a game and it's respective series. Ironically Activision may be moving a step in the right direction with the Call of Duty series with a three-year cycle. Granted, there will still be a game every year, but perhaps with the extra time between releases we can see each of these 'sub-series' develop into more unique and creative games...perhaps.

[NWR_insanolord]

Microsoft hasn't had anything that could really be called a killer app probably since the original Halo, and I'd argue Sony hasn't had one since Final Fantasy VII. Part of this might just be that it's harder to do something that had never really been done before now than in the past. Wii Sports and the Wii are a big exception to this, as they are to a lot of rules.

[broodwars]

*shrugs* What constitutes a "Killer App" is purely subjective, IMO. For me, Valkyria Chronicles was my "Killer App" for purchasing my PS3. Alan Wake was my "Killer App" for purchasing my 360. Most people wouldn't cite these games as such on platforms that have games like Uncharted and Gears of War, but that's what they were for me.

From where I stand, there's no such thing as a one-size-fits-all "Killer App" anymore, much as there isn't just one or two TV networks that everyone watches anymore containing programs with 90% market share (like I Love Lucy and MASH). Interests have diversified over the years, and as such the console manufacturers and content creators have to ensure that their software lineups are similarly diverse to compete.

And incidentally...

There's essentially nothing on Vita that couldn't be done better on the PS3 or PS4

Clearly you haven't played Tearaway, a game made entirely for the inputs and features that only the Vita natively has. You could emulate some aspects of them on the PS4 with the camera and the touchpad, but the game wouldn't be anywhere near as good or control as fluidly.

[smallsharkbigbite]

I think that the concept of a killer app doesn't really exist anymore. Technology has advanced past the point where new systems will bring with them a totally new kind of game that we haven't seen before. Wii Sports is an exception that managed to avoid this, but systems like the PS3, Xbox 360, Xbox One, PS4, Wii U, PS2, 3DS, DS, PSP, PSVita, etc. don't have anything that's a killer app.

I'd argue most of the past systems don't have a killer app either.  I think the killer apps of old (Tetris, Super Mario Bros) weren't really technology driven but were driven by uniqueness.  Uniqueness is hard to come by now.  10,000s of games have been released since video game consoles first came on the market and most are easy to place in well defined genres.  You'd really need to create a new genre of games to come up with a killer app.  That's what Nintendo did with Wii Sports bringing motion control to the living room. 


I think it's crazy that Nintendo continues to hang it's hat on coming up with unique controls that add value.  Many people thought Mario 64 was justification for analog.  I thought the DS remake was excellent and I never used the touch controls, but rather the SNES layout.  Barring obviously not enough HP to run graphics, Mario 64 could have been an excellent SNES title.

Titanfall is being pumped as such, but I doubt it's going to have much of an impact. A lot of big franchises have faded quite a bit over the last gen, so it's hard to see Gears 4, Halo 5, FFIV, etc. stirring up major sales spikes.

I think the thing Microsoft is going to do better than Nintendo is they are going to keep their userbase engaged with constant quality releases which will drive consumers to their system.  Titanfall as a free pack in is an awesome idea.  Imagine 6 months in (when most realized the Wii U was struggling) and Nintendo came out with 3D world as a pack-in?  I think that would have boosted consumer interest before people just got tired of the Wii U.  Then those other titles (and more) are gravy (imagine Nintendo coming out with X, Bayonetta 2, Mario Kart, Smash, Pikmin, Zelda the rest of 2013).  That lineup would have killed and Wii U would be blazin right now.  If Nintendo could pump out 15-20 quality (real quality not just releases) a year the Wii U would be doing well.  Nintendo can't do that and with no third party support they have no hope of getting to that level.  Which means that some consumers will never see enough value to pick up a Wii U for just a few games and Wii U owners are likely to get disinterested in the Wii U and not keep up with new releases. 


I also think the main difference between Microsoft and Nintendo is Microsoft created alot of ill-will with consumers right before the Xbox One released.  Maybe they can't get back consumer trust, but I think Microsoft's issue right now is more than just a game issue which is what Nintendo's issue is.  They also have price decreases to bring consumer excitement whereas Nintendo already has a reasonably priced console. 

[MagicCow64]

*shrugs* What constitutes a "Killer App" is purely subjective, IMO. For me, Valkyria Chronicles was my "Killer App" for purchasing my PS3. Alan Wake was my "Killer App" for purchasing my 360. Most people wouldn't cite these games as such on platforms that have games like Uncharted and Gears of War, but that's what they were for me.

From where I stand, there's no such thing as a one-size-fits-all "Killer App" anymore, much as there isn't just one or two TV networks that everyone watches anymore containing programs with 90% market share (like I Love Lucy and MASH). Interests have diversified over the years, and as such the console manufacturers and content creators have to ensure that their software lineups are similarly diverse to compete.

And incidentally...

There's essentially nothing on Vita that couldn't be done better on the PS3 or PS4

Clearly you haven't played Tearaway, a game made entirely for the inputs and features that only the Vita natively has. You could emulate some aspects of them on the PS4 with the camera and the touchpad, but the game wouldn't be anywhere near as good or control as fluidly.

Not super familiar with what Tearaway is like, but come now, surely one of those tablet apps could take care of a lot of it on a PS3/4 port (which may not be out of the question given the Vita sales of the game). Is there anything besides the rear touchpad that is a unique input method to the Vita? When I played Okami on Wii, though, I couldn't fathom how that game would be playable with just analog sticks.

This brings up something I've been wondering about in general: How is DS/3DS/Wii/WiiU legacy software going to work? If Nintendo makes another home console, will they still recognize Wiimotes? If not, or in some future where Nintendo liquidates their current operational structure and starts selling 50-in-one Super Nintendo fascimiles at Walgreens, it's probably going to be a huge problem trying to emulate motion-control centric or resistive touchpad-centric games in the future, not to mention gyro controls and mics and whatnot.

[Shaymin]

For Tearaway, the Vita cameras are also used. And they set up plot events.

[UncleBob]

Clearly you haven't played Tearaway, a game made entirely for the inputs and features that only the Vita natively has. You could emulate some aspects of them on the PS4 with the camera and the touchpad, but the game wouldn't be anywhere near as good or control as fluidly.

Funny.  Isn't trying to shoe-horn in all the "gimmicky" inputs something that games on Nintendo consoles always get slammed for?  Forced waggle and such?

[Stratos]

Forced Waggle is so last gen.


This gen it is Forced Wiggle and that is cool because it is not the crappy 'Waggle' Nintendo was offering.

[broodwars]

Funny.  Isn't trying to shoe-horn in all the "gimmicky" inputs something that games on Nintendo consoles always get slammed for?  Forced waggle and such?

It is, but that's because Nintendo typically does a really bad job of getting the tech to work right in the first place and justifying the tech's existence. The whole reason the term "waggle" exists is to describe tacked-on gimmicky bullshit that makes the game worse by offering an inferior version of an existing experience.

The best game I can compare Tearaway to that I think you would appreciate is something like Zack & Wiki on the Wii, a game designed for the many different types of input the Wiimote could do and is a better game for it. It doesn't require precise inputs, but the way you use the Wiimote better immerses you in what the game is trying to do. Tearaway is very similar: it's a game about taking an existing experience and customizing it in a way that reflects you. It is a game where you're a godlike being holding the world in your hands as part of the story, so when you see the Sun in the game you're seeing yourself looking into the game world; when you see an obstacle in Iota's path it feels natural to take your fingers and fold it out or crush it; and when you see a character or prop the game encourages you to play with it and customize it using the camera and your fingers to mold as you please. Hell, when you come across areas of weaker paper, your own fingers "pop in" through the back screen into the game world as an instrument of Almighty influence.  In the end, the message of the game is that your experience with a story only matters when you make it your own, which is supported by what otherwise would be tacked-on input gimmicks.

Tearaway isn't a game with "shoehorned gimmicks." It's a game about taking what ordinarily would be shoehorned gimmicks and organically framing the game's entire message around what only those inputs could provide. That's a far cry behind "oh look, I can shake my controller to roll in a game with 2 completely unused face buttons" or "oh look, I can shake my controller to kind of, sort of swipe my sword in a game that kind of, sort of (half the time) approximates what I'm doing."

[Mop it up]

From where I stand, there's no such thing as a one-size-fits-all "Killer App" anymore... Interests have diversified over the years, and as such the console manufacturers and content creators have to ensure that their software lineups are similarly diverse to compete.

That's kind of my point. There isn't going to be one single game that will sell the Wii U, and instead, as more and more games get released, sales should pick up.

[Kytim89]

I was reading about the Playstation Now service and it suddenly dawned on me that Sony's financial situation does not seem to be improving, or at least in the long term, and the Playstation Now service is their attempt to immortalize the Playstation brand into something that no longer makes big budgeted home consoles, but simply develops games and streams them to homes and devices.

[NWR_insanolord]

Yeah, Sony desperately wants to get out of the console business; they've only sold 5 million PS4s in the first four months.

[broodwars]

Yeah, Sony desperately wants to get out of the console business; they've only sold 5 million PS4s in the first four months.

Even more embarrassingly, they actually "only" sold 6 million PS4s in those first 6 months (Sony had a recent press release about this failure). :p

[pokepal148]

Yes I'm sure having the camera on during gameplay adds SO much to tearaway...

[broodwars]

Yes I'm sure having the camera on during gameplay adds SO much to tearaway...

See, the advantage I hold here is that I've actually played the game and know what I'm talking about, whereas you clearly do not. It's the unfair advantage we Enlightened Few who own a Vita posses, it's true, but that's our cross to bear. Truly, there cannot possibly be a major experiential component to having a camera active in a game about customizing the world and making Arts & Crafts using materials from the real world (and where "You" are a major character in the world).  Sit down, child. The grown-ups are talking.  Go play Chibi Robo 3DS or something, where I'm sure having a camera on during gameplay couldn't possibly add SO much as well. and yes, that was sarcasm, if that was too much over your head there

[Oblivion]

Are we the only two Vita owners on NWR?

[broodwars]

Are we the only two Vita owners on NWR?

No, there are at least 6: you, myself, Ceric, Shaymin, Dr. Metts, and Insanolord.

[NWR_insanolord]

I played the Tearaway demo, and honestly, I really wasn't impressed by it. The comparison to early DS games that insisted upon using every feature on the system just because seems fair to me. Maybe the rest of the game gets better about it.

[broodwars]

I played the Tearaway demo, and honestly, I really wasn't impressed by it. The comparison to early DS games that insisted upon using every feature on the system just because seems fair to me. Maybe the rest of the game gets better about it.

It does, but that's a fair assessment of the demo. The game doesn't really start to hammer in its mission statement until about 1/3 - 1/4 of the way through the game, and the demo takes place in a very early part of the game before the game even unlocks many of its features.

[Ceric]

Are we the only two Vita owners on NWR?

No, there are at least 6: you, myself, Ceric, Shaymin, Dr. Metts, and Insanolord.

I've fairly sure Zach and Neal have one.

[NWR_insanolord]

They do, as well as at least a few other staff members. Some of them don't really spend much time in the forums, though, because they think they're better than us.

[Stratos]

Insanolord is the People's Staffer. He cares for our needs.