Topic: The Ultimate Showdown of Outcasted Consoles: Wii U vs Vita

[NWR_insanolord]

Vita has more momentum right now than the Wii U, or at least appears to. Both Sony and Nintendo are pretty stubborn, though, so I doubt either of them is going anywhere, or at least I hope not, because they're probably my two favorite game systems at the moment.

[BranDonk Kong]

Vita = Futurama

Wii U = Arrested Development (literally and figuratively).

[Luigi Dude]

Vita has more momentum right now than the Wii U, or at least appears to. Both Sony and Nintendo are pretty stubborn, though, so I doubt either of them is going anywhere, or at least I hope not, because they're probably my two favorite game systems at the moment.

Only in Japan.  In this West, all of the Vita's upcoming games are pretty niche and won't do anything to boast hardware sales.  Even though Nintendo has less games, Mario Kart and Smash Bros alone will boast Wii U sales much higher then anything the Vita can hope for.

I need to remind people that even with it's almost non-existent lineup last year, the Wii U still sold better then the Vita in the West.  Hell, by the end of November, the Wii U had already surpassed the Vita's lifetime sales in North America and then sold 480k in December while the Vita sold less then 95k that month.  Then in January, even with the Wii U doing a terrible 49k, that was still better then the Vita which sold under 15k.

Even if Sony doesn't discountinue the system in the West, most retailers will.  Nintendo will at least have the advantage of decent holiday sales combined with it's major franchises giving retailers a reason to keep Wii U's stocked, even if its in smaller numbers like the Gamecube.  The Vita has none of that going for it and unless Sony does something major, the system will be impossible to find in stores come 2015 since no one will carry it.

[Mop it up]

Man I wish the Wii U had similar third-party support as the Wii, as the Wii has lots of fun third-party games.

[shingi_70]

The Vita has much more momentum in both Markets.

To sum.it up I'll be buying a Vita this month while waiting for a price cut on the Wii U. That or Nintendo has to blow me away at E3.

[Kytim89]

The Wii U will gain more momentum in each market as long as Nintendo can offer an ample supply of first party titles for the system. I mentioned this before, but if Nintendo could offer a Gamepad revision in Japan that was smaller like a Vita and bundled it with a Monster Hunter, Dragon Quest, and Pokemon game then it would probably take off. 

[shingi_70]

But its pretty obvious Nintendo can't keep the momentum up for two systems and that's not even including the resources that are going into the QOL initiative.

Hate to sound cynical but I could see Nintendo gone or handheld only in the next few years.

[Spak-Spang]

The difference in Vita and Wii U is also how long it has been on the market.  Isn't the Vita in its 3rd year of life?  Of course it will have a larger selection of games, and a larger selection of games coming out next year.

The important thing to remember with Nintendo consoles is that you have Nintendo publishing games for it.  Which means, that with each new game released the console becomes more and more desirable.  The first year of the Wii U was a wash, but this coming year combined with the first year will provide the Wii U with many compelling experiences exclusive to the Wii U and worth buying.

I am amazed that the Vita has been on the market so long and isn't doing better.

Starting of the Wii U's 3rd year, it will just continue to become a more viable console experience.  Yes, it will never be the PS4 or Xbox One...but it doesn't need to be. 

[Luigi Dude]

The Vita has much more momentum in both Markets.

Only it doesn't.  Once again, the actual sales show the Vita is in a much worse position in the West then the Wii U and unlike the Wii U, it has no games that will even remotely give it a bump in the future.

[shingi_70]

Yet it will still get more games which in the end is all that matters hence my purchases.

Yeah the Wii U will still get games but it deserves bad sea if were going to just get Mario in 4D.

[Ian Sane]

The important thing to remember with Nintendo consoles is that you have Nintendo publishing games for it.  Which means, that with each new game released the console becomes more and more desirable.  The first year of the Wii U was a wash, but this coming year combined with the first year will provide the Wii U with many compelling experiences exclusive to the Wii U and worth buying.

You would think that Nintendo published games would make the difference but I'm a Nintendo fan and I haven't been inspired to buy a Wii U yet.  Yeah there are Nintendo games and I like Nintendo games but most of them are franchises and genres that have been done to death.  I'm interested in Pikmin 3 because there have only been two prior Pikmin games and it's a franchise that skipped a generation.  But I'm sick of Mario.  Nintendo has turned him into an annual franchise like Call of Duty.  I don't give a **** that I've missed out on NSMB U and Super Mario 3D World because, frankly, it feels like I haven't missed out on anything.  Meanwhile DKC is practically the same thing as Mario.  I'm just not interested in buying a new console for stuff that feels like the same old thing, particularly when I already own a 3DS so if I want more Mario I've got NSMB2 and Super Mario 3D Land right there.  Mario Kart and SSB are due later and I don't care.  I've had my fill of those series.  That's just the nature of any series.  Meanwhile something like X does grab my interest because there has only been one Xenoblade game and there is a lot of potential still for new ideas.

I don't think I'm alone in my general apathy towards tired Nintendo franchises.  I suspect that's part of why the Wii U isn't selling.  How much a Mario nut do you need to be to buy a whole new console to play 2D Mario sidescrollers?  When the last gen Mario Galaxy games come across a more cutting edge than the current Mario games on the Wii U, there's a problem.  I think Nintendo has the talent to make any console worthwhile but they need to use it in exciting ways.  Cliché retreads of old concepts aren't enough.  Nintendo as a bold innovative developer is a selling point but Nintendo as a nostalgia based "oldies" dev is not.

[Adrock]

I'm just not interested in buying a new console for stuff that feels like the same old thing, particularly when I already own a 3DS...

Speaking of that 3DS...

Figures.  I bought a 3DS specifically for Pokémon when it came out.  I guess I got some extra months of playtime out of my purchase.

Pretty weird to complain about this on Wii U when you bought a 3DS specifically for a series that has had a yearly main series release for the past three years, four if you count HeartGold and SoulSilver.

[Ian Sane]

I'm just not interested in buying a new console for stuff that feels like the same old thing, particularly when I already own a 3DS...

Speaking of that 3DS...

Figures.  I bought a 3DS specifically for Pokémon when it came out.  I guess I got some extra months of playtime out of my purchase.

Pretty weird to complain about this on Wii U when you bought a 3DS specifically for a series that has had a yearly main series release for the past three years, four if you count HeartGold and SoulSilver.

Personally I had not played Pokémon since Ruby/Sapphire so it isn't something I'm worn out on.  I actually was interested in Pokémon X/Y specifically because it resembled the 3D Pokémon I've been waiting for more than any previous Pokémon game before it.  It came across as new enough to get me back in the series.  That's the point.  Unlike other Pokémon games it grabbed my attention.  Enough had changed over time to pull me out of Pokémon exile.

If someone hasn't played Mario in years and years then the Wii U Mario games might interest them.  Absence makes the heart grow fonder, right?  But for someone like myself that had been keeping up with the series I got Mario-ed out on the Wii.  I'm bored of the series and need a break.  Now not everyone will have kept up with every game but you can't just rely on that.

The Wii U ain't selling well and any optimism about it seems to rely on the assumption that as their are more first party games the system will become a more enticing product and will sell better.  But Mario and Donkey Kong are already here and have done jack ****.  So Mario Kart or SSB will suddenly buck that trend?  What makes them so special?  NSMB Wii was a MASSIVE hit and yet NSMB U has done nothing to encourage Wii U sales.  I consider Nintendo's talent of a game developer to be their greatest asset but I don't think their own releases will save the Wii U if it's just the same thing everyone played on the Wii (or the Gamecube for that matter).  They need to demonstrate that the Wii U offers something that other videogame systems don't.

[Luigi Dude]

The Wii U ain't selling well and any optimism about it seems to rely on the assumption that as their are more first party games the system will become a more enticing product and will sell better.  But Mario and Donkey Kong are already here and have done jack ****.  So Mario Kart or SSB will suddenly buck that trend?  What makes them so special?  NSMB Wii was a MASSIVE hit and yet NSMB U has done nothing to encourage Wii U sales.

We've gone over this before.  NSMB Wii sold around the same as NSMB DS showing the audience for 2D Mario on handheld and home console is the same.  Well Nintendo went and released a NSMB for the cheaper 3DS only 3 months before NSMB U for the more expensive Wii U.  So for an audience that has no problem playing 2D Mario on either system, NSMB U loses appeal.

Mario Kart on the other hand is way more popular on home consoles then handhelds, with Mario Kart Wii selling over 10 million more then the DS game did.  Makes sense considering Mario Karts appeal has always been the party aspect which is more fun to most people when played on a TV with each other.  Smash Bros appeal is also the same way which is why even with the 3DS version, the Wii U version should still end up being the better seller as well.


This is why Mario Kart and Smash Bros are a much bigger deal for the Wii U since these franchises actually benefit from being played on a TV to much of their audience, while all of Nintendo's other big Wii U games have had handheld counterparts that those audiences don't care since it doesn't matter if they're played on a big or small screen since they were single player oriented.

[broodwars]

You'd think that people would finally be abandoning the "Wii U will be saved when such and such game releases" considering they've all failed. "New Super Mario Bros. U will sell Wii Us because NBMBW sold ludicrously well." "Wii Fit was a massive success so Wii Fit U will finally save the Wii U!" "Super Mario 3D World will do it this time! 3D Land saved the 3DS!" "Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze will move Wii Us because DKCR sold millions!"

Relying on past successes as an indicator of future success doesn't work when your console has ZERO consumer confidence.

[NWR_insanolord]

New Super Mario Bros. Wii was released in 2009 when there were already something like 70 million Wiis sold. The DS game also had a large install base to sell to. This just proves that, while it's a game a lot of people like, it's not something that many people will buy hardware just to play.

[pokepal148]

Vita = Futurama

Wii U = Arrested Development (literally and figuratively).

I think 'Torchwood' is a better comparison for the Vita...

[Adrock]

New Super Mario Bros. Wii was released in 2009 when there were already something like 70 million Wiis sold. The DS game also had a large install base to sell to. This just proves that, while it's a game a lot of people like, it's not something that many people will buy hardware just to play.

I agree. It's not as simple as "launch with Mario" like many Nintendo fans believe. Super Mario 64, for example, benefited from being a Mario game, but it also changed gaming. That's a lot to ask of any video game. For that reason, I don't buy into the whole character fatigue argument. A good game is a good game. Justifying an investment into a new console is something else entirely. It's easier to commit to purchasing a Wii U now that it finally has a decent selection of quality (mostly Nintendo) titles. Taking over a year and a half to get there continues to hurt it. A spotty release schedule will always damage a console's reputation.

I find most consoles difficult to recommend at or around launch. I bought Wii U at launch based on future potential. It has served my needs thus far though I had no delusions over what it had to offer, it would hit the notes I needed it to eventually. The last time I bought hardware at launch due to burning desire was GameCube and I didn't even have a game until Melee came out.

I'm confused over what people mean when referring to Wii U "being saved." Nintendo isn't going to "win" this generation. They can, however, still turn a profit and have done so in the past despite being in third place in terms of consoles sold. I'd say that's as close to "saving" the console as Nintendo is going to get when it finally releases titles like Mario Kart 8 and Super Smash Bros. Beyond early adopters, people either buy a console based on something they've never seen before or by having a decent amount of things to buy. Wii had the former; Wii U is inching closer to the latter. The evergreen status of their titles helps immensely.

[NWR_insanolord]

I think if 3D World had been the launch Mario, or even better a more ambitious Galaxy-styled 3D Mario, I think it would have done a better job of selling Wii Us. Those games would do a better job of convincing the core market to buy a $350 system at launch, and they could have released NSMBU later on when there was a bigger install base and a lower-priced console that mainstream people might get.

[Adrock]

Most likely. As has been stated many times, launching with NSMBU made little sense mere months after NSMB2. It probably would have been better had Nintendo simply switched the release order of the two. Still, 3D World is the better of the two Wii U titles and far fresher so Nintendo should have planned that better.

[Luigi Dude]

It should also be noted that the NSMB series has lost popularity even on the 3DS.  On the DS, NSMB was a beast that outsold every other DS game even in it's first year and had monster legs throughout it's lifespan.  Well right now, Pokemon, Mario Kart, and even Mario 3D Land have sold better then NSMB 2.  Even the legs for NSMB 2 are weaker then Mario Kart 7, which is rather telling considering NSMB DS had much better legs then Mario Kart DS.

So it looks like the way Nintendo treated that series, has started to finally bite them.  Yeah it's still over 7 million right now, but in comparison to how it performed on the DS, it's not as strong a brand anymore since series that were less popular on that system are more popular on the 3DS now.

[Kytim89]

The NSMB series would have gotten better reception if Nintendo did not insist on making Bowser and his ilk the main baddies in every entry. The 3DS game should have had Wario (Waluigi instead of Bowser, jr.) as the main villain and the Wii U game could used Wart or some other bad guy to kidnap Peach.

As for the Wii U vs Vita, the Wii U will ultimately win due to it being a Nintendo console. If Nintendo combines their checkbook with the first party titles that have been on the back burner for the last few decades then the Wii U will be successful. It appears as though Sony has given up on the Vita and has reduced it to nothing more than an accessory for the PS4.

[NWR_insanolord]

I seriously doubt changing the enemies would have any significant effect on the reception of the games. They're more or less interchangeable. The kind of people who'd actually notice the difference probably wouldn't care.

[Phil]

New Super Mario Bros. on the DS was also the first traditional 2D Mario platformer in, what, like over a decade?
Of course it would sell more, especially to a user base of over 100 million.

[NWR_insanolord]

What might actually get people interested in these games again would be to switch up the presentation. Lush, hand-drawn 2D sprites, and new/better music. Seeing that would immediately drive home the point that this is something new and different.