Author Topic: Wrestling discussion (Read 111390 times)

Chozo Ghost · « **Reply #325 on:** April 17, 2012, 12:22:24 AM »

I'm sure if he is "made to drink alcohol" it would just be water or some other non-alcoholic liquid.

Adrock · « **Reply #326 on:** April 17, 2012, 06:31:44 AM »

Obviously. I'm saying that it's not even going to get to that point because that sets Punk back a lot. The whole straight edge thing is a big part of Punk's character and he's being positioned as one of the company's top guys. Rightfully so because Punk is awesome but it's also the reason why he's not going to lose. The way the writers set up the feud makes it pretty obvious that Punk comes out the victor. My issue isn't with who wins or loses because wrestling is staged. However, I like watching matches not expecting a winner. That's what makes wrestling interesting to me. I mean, they could throw a swerve but in this particular case, I doubt it.

Edit: Grammar

Chozo Ghost · « **Reply #327 on:** April 17, 2012, 07:17:56 AM »

Well, let's not forget a few years ago when Cena was forced to turn heel and join the Nexus. Did that set his character back a lot? He bounced back from that, and now no one even talks about or remember that.

It wasn't even that long ago that CM Punk was a heel. Seems like these characters flip flop regularly between heel and face, and I guess the attention span of viewers is very short because they go along with it. I mean, look what they did just recently with Daniel Bryan. It was only like a month or two ago Michael Cole was calling him a "goof" and saying he sucks and whatnot, and now he's praising him overnight. Its like they turn heel or face with the flip of a switch and there's no logical gradual build up to it.

Adrock · « **Reply #328 on:** April 17, 2012, 08:00:19 AM »

Wait, what? This isn't about turning heel. It's about affecting Punk's persona, his character. Think along the lines of what the Katie Vick storyline or mask removal did to Kane. This is definitely not on the same degree (not sure WWE could curb stomp anyone worse than they did with Kane years ago) but something like that really affects a wrestler's character. Being straight edge is so ingrained in Punk's persona that having him kayfabe drink cheapens his character and for what? It's most likely not going to happen to a top guy like Punk and if it does, the WWE is even more out of touch than previously thought. The only way to have avoided ether kicking Punk's character to the curb or pushing a predictable storyline is to have just not attempted it in the first place. Since it's too late to go back, I want to see Punk win then they move on. It's not worth damaging Punk's credibility in any way.

Chozo Ghost · « **Reply #329 on:** April 17, 2012, 08:43:09 AM »

Yeah, I read in a wrestling magazine from years ago some interview with Rey Mysterio where he was made to take his mask off as part of losing some match or something, and this was back before he had ever taken his mask off and he was upset about it because the mask meant a lot to him and they made him do that like it was nothing.

It sucks what the WWE does with its talent. That's why a lot of them like Gail Kim and others have left to places where they are better appreciated for their talents.

BranDonk Kong · « **Reply #330 on:** April 17, 2012, 08:59:37 AM »

Cena didn't turn heel when he "joined" Nexus anyway.

TJ Spyke · « **Reply #331 on:** April 17, 2012, 09:13:33 PM »

Quote from: Chozo Ghost on April 17, 2012, 08:43:09 AM

Yeah, I read in a wrestling magazine from years ago some interview with Rey Mysterio where he was made to take his mask off as part of losing some match or something, and this was back before he had ever taken his mask off and he was upset about it because the mask meant a lot to him and they made him do that like it was nothing.

It sucks what the WWE does with its talent. That's why a lot of them like Gail Kim and others have left to places where they are better appreciated for their talents.

To be fair, it was WCW who made Mysterio remove his mask (and he stayed like that for over a year before WCW was sold). WWE let him put it back on.

WWE actually treats their wrestlers very well by wrestling standards. Gail Kim left because she felt like she wasn't being used much (which is true). The most common reason wrestlers who leave WWE give is that they get tired of the schedule (being on the road about 5 days a week). Many who went to TNA though said they quickly got over the charm of TNA and wanted out (Christian being a good example, he said he loved TNA for about 6 months. And it's no secret Ric Flair is unhappy and wants to go back to WWE).

Chozo, that is common with wrestling. Announcers changing their opinions based on whether they are heels or faces. To be fair though, Daniel Bryan had been heel for about a month or two before Michael Cole started saying good things about him.

Chozo Ghost · « **Reply #332 on:** April 18, 2012, 12:31:12 AM »

Not all of the talent leaves voluntarily, though. They got rid of a lot of talent by firing them (they call it "releasing" them). Even people who have been with the company for many years are "released". Not that long ago they got rid of Kozlov and he has been with the company since forever. I guess its probably just as well because they never did much with his character anyway. They could have, but they didn't.

I realize there is only so much air time, but it really doesn't help when there is a small select group of wrestlers like Cena who hog all the limelight and prevent the new comers from ever getting a chance to be established.

Oh, and another good example is Mark Henry. He has been with the company since the Clinton administration, but only recently did they give him his due. I don't know if he's really the world's strongest man, but he really is a beast and he deserved to kick some ass. It isn't right that it took 15 years for that to happen, though.

And then what about Christian? Here's another great wrestler who was never champion until recently. Now he's a "two time" champion, but those two times happened just a short time apart and they were both very, very brief. Meanwhile Randy Orton gets his thing for the umpteenth time.

Meanwhile, there are wrestlers like Alberto Del Rio who show up out of nowhere and then a few months later they are WWE champion.

TJ Spyke · « **Reply #333 on:** April 18, 2012, 12:35:13 AM »

Mark Henry was given push after push after push (remember when he first appeared as monster heel against Kurt Angle? Then when he attacked Undertaker, which resulted in Edge cashing in MITB?), the fans just never bought into him until his big push last year. So WWE tried, but it just took a long time for him to get over as a credible threat.

BTW, Henry started using the strongest man nickname after he won the first Arnold Strongman Classic back in 2002.

BranDonk Kong · « **Reply #334 on:** April 18, 2012, 06:14:25 PM »

Releasing and firing aren't the same thing. Wrestlers ask for their release, when they get fired, they "come to terms."

TJ Spyke · « **Reply #335 on:** April 18, 2012, 06:18:55 PM »

They can be used together. Anyone fired is technically released (since they are under contract).

Adrock · « **Reply #336 on:** May 20, 2012, 10:22:07 PM »

Punk vs. Bryan was excellent. Better than both Punk vs. Jericho matches. I didn't like the ending. I don't like Punk with the title. He's best when he's the underdog and defying authority. Not really surprised that Daniel Bryan lost. Along with Ziggler, Bryan just keeps losing. I wonder who's eventually going to beat Punk. Lesnar? The Rock? Ehh... I would have rather seen Jericho or (better yet) Bryan take the title. He could use the push. He's totally over with fans. He's a heel and people are still cheering him. Yes!

Also, Ryback is bootleg Goldberg.

Chozo Ghost · « **Reply #337 on:** May 24, 2012, 05:13:35 PM »

I think its funny how hypocritical the WWE and John Cena are for their anti-bullying campaign, yet what happened during the PPV in the match between Cena and Laurinitis was nothing short of bullying.

It was also pretty sad how Laurinitis didn't put up much of a fight. I knew he wasn't going to win without interference, but he was a wrestler at one time in his own right and he should have been able to do some of his old moves. I was extremely disappointed, and the match as I said was one sided and basically bullying which is what Cena and the WWE supposedly are against, yet they frequently have bullying in their storylines. I guess bullying is okay when its the "good guys" doing it...

Anyway, its obvious Lauiriniatis is out of shape and hasn't worked out in quite some time. That's probably he choose to wear that jogging suit as his attire... to hide his lack of musculature. That's a shame for him to be like this now when he was such a great wrestler in the past.

Adrock · « **Reply #338 on:** May 24, 2012, 05:50:56 PM »

That was supposed to be Laurinaitis getting his comeuppance. He has been the Mr. McMahon figure for roughly the last 7 months or so. If anything, Johnny Ace was portrayed as the bully for months, attempting to screw over faces left and right (mostly Punk and Cena). Should Cena have taken the high road and just beat Laurinaitis right away? Perhaps but that's not how it's set-up. Lauranaitis was developed as a jerk so people wouldn't feel sorry for him. That's what makes him the heel. The reversal from position of power to being powerless is WWE trying to build up drama. It's similar to when say anyone wails on Hogan then he "hulks up" and his opponent acts all afraid.

The most disappointing thing about that "match" was that they wasted the last 20 minutes of a PPV just to turn Big Show heel. The audience got a fantastic match with Punk vs. Bryan but man, that main event was a major cop out. That's what you expect out of Raw or Smackdown but a PPV shouldn't have storyline "matches" with non-endings.

BranDonk Kong · « **Reply #339 on:** May 24, 2012, 06:29:24 PM »

The Big Show thing was all too predictable, but it will be nice to see Big Show beat John Cena (cleanly) if they go that route. I understand it's all fake, but if they want to pull the wool over the WWE Universe's eyes...Big Show should basically be undefeated.

TJ Spyke · « **Reply #340 on:** May 24, 2012, 07:35:43 PM »

Big Show usually is treated like that when he is a heel, it gets boring after awhile. At least fans care though, unlike Crimson and his "undefeated" streak (they get away with it by hinging on the fact that he wasn't pinned or submitted, but he did lose matches) and fans couldn't care less.

Yes John Laurinaitis used to be a wrestler, but he hasn't wrestled in about 18 years. And after what he did to Cena, it would be fine to me for his character to do that. It's not really bullying since it happened in a match.

Chozo Ghost · « **Reply #341 on:** May 24, 2012, 08:11:37 PM »

Quote from: Brandogg on May 24, 2012, 06:29:24 PM

The Big Show thing was all too predictable, but it will be nice to see Big Show beat John Cena (cleanly) if they go that route. I understand it's all fake, but if they want to pull the wool over the WWE Universe's eyes...Big Show should basically be undefeated.

To be honest I thought he had already turned heel when he plowed into AJ and changed his attire to that new camo look.

I didn't like how they tried to make Daniel Bryan a heel. The way they did it didn't feel natural. Its the same as when they made Christian a heel last year. These two are the sorts of wrestlers that should never be heels.

Anyway, give him a few weeks or months and he will be back to a face again. It won't last... it never does.

TJ Spyke · « **Reply #342 on:** May 24, 2012, 08:15:13 PM »

It felt natural to me, and they did it slowly. He won the title, and it started making him feel cocky. They made it clear Big Show accidentally speared AJ (and that it was Bryan's fault). Christian came has been heel for the majority of his WWE career actually. I think they did a good job with it, he became frustrated after losing his title so quickly.

Chozo Ghost · « **Reply #343 on:** May 26, 2012, 09:50:29 AM »

I thought the Big Show's explanation for his actions during the PPV last night on Smackdown were pretty sensible, but the crowd still booed him anyway. Maybe he hasn't really turned heel anyway, because while he did attack the staff and the wrestlers for not coming to his aid, he didn't bash the fans like heels usually do when they turn.

Chozo Ghost · « **Reply #344 on:** July 24, 2012, 12:20:55 AM »

So CM Punk turned heel again tonight.... I knew it was just a matter of time.

BranDonk Kong · « **Reply #345 on:** July 24, 2012, 01:53:20 AM »

Here's my predictions for what will happen now - Big Show/Cena feud for a while, CM Punk keeps the title through Royal Rumble. Rock faces Punk at RR, and wins the title. Cena wins the Royal Rumble. Rock vs Cena 2 at WrestleMania 30, Cena wins.

TJ Spyke · « **Reply #346 on:** July 24, 2012, 06:59:07 AM »

If Punk holds onto the title until RR, he would have the 8th longest reign in WWE history (and longer than anyone since Hogan's first reign from 1984-1988). At least if Punk does make the full heel turn, their is a storyline reason in tat he could say he was sick of always being overshadowed despite being WWE Champion (and putting on the best match of the night so often, like at Money in the Bank).

Chozo Ghost · « **Reply #347 on:** July 24, 2012, 10:51:29 PM »

So is the Undertaker back on the roster now, or was his appearance just a one time thing for the 1000th episode?

TJ Spyke · « **Reply #348 on:** July 25, 2012, 06:56:20 AM »

He seemed to have trouble moving around, I don't see him ever being full time again. Expect just WrestleMania and the occasional special appearance like tonight.

BranDonk Kong · « **Reply #349 on:** July 25, 2012, 12:48:05 PM »

I meant WM29 in my last post.

I've been bored with the Undertaker for years. He couldn't even get his hood off on RAW...he's fucking old. He should just retire now, with dignity.

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Author Topic: Wrestling discussion (Read 111390 times)