Topic: Sony getting hit Hard lately

[BeautifulShy]

Yeah you're right BNM.I read that part wrong.

[Flames_of_chaos]

BNM I think that Sony is really struggling to make a profit; MS to a lesser extent.I think this will backfire on MS and Sony.Nintendo will benefit from this situation.

But MS doesn't charge the Publisher, they charge the consumer. $50 a year for LIVE right?
Nintendo doesn't really do demos and most of their downloads are pretty small as it is.
Maybe this will make those HD developers stop bloating all their code(since they have soo much space) and optimize a little better.

Unfortunately they don't bloat the code HD assets take up more space compared to SD assets since textures are biggest amongst other things. Why do you think Blue Dragon is 3 double layered DVDs (about 22GB) and Lost Odyssey is 4 double layered DVDs(about 27.5GB), it's because of all the HD cutscenes both games have.   

I don't think MS charges for companies to put on demoes, but Sony does. If any transaction is done on any service regardless if its xbox live, PSN or the Nintendo Shop the owner of those services will always get some royalties.

[KDR_11k]

HD is not the biggest factor in that, the more powerful hardware with more texture memory and such is to blame, not the resolution. Shaders don't help either, often adding several texture layers.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Oh that silly Sony, the classics keep on coming. Like DSi for all the kiddies

If Nintendo is really committed to reaching a broader, more diverse audience of gamers beyond the “kids” market that they’ve always engaged, there isn’t much new with the DSi to support that. Significant gamer demographic groups are being ignored, and there continues to be limited opportunities for games from external publishers to do well on the DSi. Compare that with the PSP platform, where we have many blockbuster franchises from our publishing partners launching this year, representing a wide variety of genres and targeting diverse demographics. Games such as Rock Band Unplugged from MTV Games, Assassin’s Creed from Ubisoft, Dissidia Final Fantasy from Square Enix, and Hannah Montana from Disney demonstrate the commitment that publishers have to the PSP. From our own first-party studios, we’re launching unique versions of LittleBigPlanet and MotorStorm, and we’re also planning a steady stream of downloadable games — both new titles and PSone classics — to add to the content that PSP owners can already purchase wirelessly through PlayStation Store. - SCEA director of hardware marketing John Koller

[Flames_of_chaos]

I personally hate when Microsoft and Sony attempt to mudsling Nintendo, while I do like all my systems I own the least amount of games on PSP. The DS is my favorite portable platform ever. According to Gamepedia which I use to track my collection, I own 90 DS games and 17 PSP games so I don't find a good amount of PSP games that appeal to me while the DS has games in spades that appeal to me.

Rock Band Unplugged will be a spin off I am somewhat interested, Assassin's Creed could be good, I want Dissidia FF, and I have no idea why Sony would use Hannah Montana as a killer app except for the casual crowd. SCEA's track record of releasing PSone games is abysmal, if people are complaining about 1 game a week on virtual console, I think they would lose their mind how many titles Sony releases on PSN. SCEJ does a good job with PSone games on PSN, SCEE does somewhat of a good job.

[Deguello]

Well it seems like Sony chose "kiddie" instead of "non-gaming grandma" to characterize the DS owners.  Tough choice, and you can't have both considering they are diametrically opposed.  However, with 100 million DS out there, it's somewhat hard to believe that they are ALL "kids."  (Heck even the presser uses the word "kids" in quotation, indicative of the label being applied.  It's the little things that make this funny.)

It's a rather feeble attempt, and indicative of the kind of crap Sega pulled back in the day.  And we all know how THAT turned out, right?  It's not to say the PSP itself hasn't made inroads, but considering the rather paltry lineup in that little presser (Hannah Montana?  Really?) it definitely seems like they are grasping at straws to stay relevant software-wise.

[GoldenPhoenix]

At least MS tends to be polite when talking about Nintendo most of the time, even giving them praise. It is like Sony is still stuck in arrogant mode.

[Flames_of_chaos]

At least MS tends to be polite when talking about Nintendo most of the time, even giving them praise. It is like Sony is still stuck in arrogant mode.

I disagree, Aaron Greenberg is always mudslinging other companies. He mudslings PS3 the most and  flip flops on the Wii, first it's a console for kids and doesn't capture the 13 - 33 year old market, then Microsoft and Nintendo are leading the market. The only Microsoft exec well now former exec that really liked the Wii is Peter Moore.

[Chozo Ghost]

It's a rather feeble attempt, and indicative of the kind of crap Sega pulled back in the day.  And we all know how THAT turned out, right?  It's not to say the PSP itself hasn't made inroads, but considering the rather paltry lineup in that little presser (Hannah Montana?  Really?) it definitely seems like they are grasping at straws to stay relevant software-wise.

One thing that you shouldn't do when criticizing another company's lineup as "kiddie" is trumpet a Hannah Montana game coming to your system as if that makes you "hardcore" or something.

Well, then again, Miley Cyrus does drink booze and dress mature and provacatively, so maybe he does have a point.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1137355/sony-reports-loss-14

Sony reports first loss in 14 years
$1 billion down the loo

[BlackNMild2k1]

And people are expecting a PS3 price drop... SONY can't afford it. MS had a price drop & trust me when I say it didn't help much, and now that the price has been dropped, you can't raise it back up.
Sony needs to figure out a way to reduce manufacturing cost & simultaneously increase value for the PS3 while finding a way to sell more games asap.  Maybe a slimline PS3 is just what they need as long as it finally features competent PS2 backwards compatibility and a game and/or some PSN cash packed in.

[GoldenPhoenix]

And people are expecting a PS3 price drop... SONY can't afford it. MS had a price drop & trust me when I say it didn't help much, and now that the price has been dropped, you can't raise it back up.
Sony needs to figure out a way to reduce manufacturing cost & simultaneously increase value for the PS3 while finding a way to sell more games asap.  Maybe a slimline PS3 is just what they need as long as it finally features competent PS2 backwards compatibility and a game and/or some PSN cash packed in.

I don't know why they don't pack more games in, from a materials perspective it is cheap but adds value.

[Chozo Ghost]

I don't know why they don't pack more games in, from a materials perspective it is cheap but adds value.

I would say because then people would be less likely to buy games. Sony loses money on the hardware, so they want to make sure people buy software, so that means they can't give it away for free.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Pack-ins are unnecessary when everyone's working 3 jobs.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I also think it would be a better way to add value than losing more money per console sold. You figure the consumer is gonna have to buy a game anyway, so instead of knocking $50-100 off system price and not guarantee a software sale, just bundle in 1-2 games you know people will like and/or some PSN cash so they are forced to visit the online store.

or how about a $50 trade-in credit for a working PS2 when purchasing a PS3slim. Didn't gamestop just have a similar deal with a DS for DSi trade-in? that worked out pretty good. People like to think they are getting a deal.

edit: A rebate. those always trick people into paying full price, but then they are too lazy to send in for the actual rebate.

[Chozo Ghost]

Pack-ins are unnecessary when everyone's working 3 jobs.

I'm not sure if you are joking or not, but that is a very good point. With the economy being the way it is, $60 games and $30 bru-ray movies are practically the last thing on anyone's mind. A lot of Nintendo's success may be due not just to the price of their console, but to the price of their games as well. If you're struggling, can you afford to spend $59 on games? Maybe not. Can you afford $49? That's a little more likely.

And thus the Wii is the market leader. The lesson is consumers want lower priced games.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I buy lots of blu-ray movies and PS3/360 games that i don't play!

[broodwars]

I purchased a PS3 (as GoldenPhoenix well knows) almost 2 months ago, and honestly I have very few problems with it.  I waited through GDC to see if the price would drop, and when they didn't I purchased a refurbashed one off Ebay (which works great, by the way) with backwards compatibility for (when you put together the added accessories of the Blu-Ray Remote; the HDMI cord; an extra controller; and a PS2 memory card transfer unit) not much more than it would have cost me to buy a new PS3 with no backwards compatibility, and it would have been less if I had forgoed the accessories.  That's money Sony didn't get from me because they dropped backwards compatibility and wouldn't drop the price of the system.  Time and time again we see that dropping the price on things increases sales, and I just don't see how Sony can afford to operate like this with the economy what it is.

The thing about the PS3 price, though, is that I can see Sony's point of view on the thing: I paid just a little over $400 combined for the full experience, and I still feel like I got a good value.  Hell, it's certainly been a better value that I've had with the Wii over the past few years, with (in my opinion) its relative handful of excellent but short and usually-shallow games.  It's just hard to sell people on the PS3's value when you have $60 games, most of which are available on the cheaper 360 for the same price if not cheaper (360 games seem to drop in price a lot quicker for some reason) and negligible graphical/audio differences.  I've lucked out that with proper planning and strategic use of store credit I've yet to pay more than $40 for any of my games, but to me that tag stings more than the hardware cost.

This may sound like a bizarre and unreasonable idea, but what if Sony did the following:

1.  Bite the bullet and do a $100 price cut on the PS3 main model.  Release a model at the existing price as well that has PS2 backwards compatibility for those that want it (unfortunately, I don't think complete software emulation of the PS2 will work as it does for the PS1).

2.  Work out a deal with developers for the PS3 that will relax the licensing fees for developing games on the platform.  I think Sony could make some real headway if they could undercut Microsoft with $50-$55 games, especially since the two have a lot of multiplatform releases as it is.  The higher sales of those games would counterbalance the lost revenue from the licensing fees.

3.  Sony needs to stop being so arrogant.  They're not Number 1 anymore, and they're not going to be anytime soon.  Compared to Nintendo and even to an extent Microsoft, Sony comes off as cold and unfriendly, which doesn't endear themselves to customers or developers.

Ugh...I can feel myself rambling without a point in sight.  Damn 14-hour work days...and it's only going to get worse very soon.  Basically, the PS3's a great system that Sony has allowed to get overshadowed by its price through truly terrible Public Relations and Marketing.  Until Sony changes its attitude and business strategy, that's not going to change.

[NWR_insanolord]

There's just no way Sony will do both 1 and 2, taking more of a loss on the hardware and making less money on the one thing they make money on. They really need to do 3 regardless of whatever else they do.

Sony's biggest problem is that they don't have any exclusive games that are system sellers beyond maybe MGS4, and that's on the low end of that spectrum. They've got a decent group of games that are good and you'd buy if you had a PS3 but nothing to push people over the edge and make them buy the hardware.

Looking at the current lineup of games on the PS3 I don't think it would even be worth it to me to buy a hypothetical $300 model with backwards compatibility unless Sony has a spectacular E3.

[broodwars]

There's just no way Sony will do both 1 and 2, taking more of a loss on the hardware and making less money on the one thing they make money on. They really need to do 3 regardless of whatever else they do.

Sony's biggest problem is that they don't have any exclusive games that are system sellers beyond maybe MGS4, and that's on the low end of that spectrum. They've got a decent group of games that are good and you'd buy if you had a PS3 but nothing to push people over the edge and make them buy the hardware.

Looking at the current lineup of games on the PS3 I don't think it would even be worth it to me to buy a hypothetical $300 model with backwards compatibility unless Sony has a spectacular E3.

I know Sony dropping their license fees in particular is extremely unlikely, but consider that Sony needs to give developers an incentive to develop exclusively on their platform, or at the very least develop on their platform at all.  Allowing them to sell more units at a lower price could do that, especially since buying exclusives isn't really practical anymore.  At the very least, Sony needs to do this because I think the PS3 can stay at the price it is at if gamers can be shown that there are savings and value in the PS3 experience.

[GoldenPhoenix]

With the worldwide economy the way it is, convincing anyone to do major HD games exclusively for PS3 is almost a pipe dream. Few are going to want to jump on a sinking ship which PS3 is.

[broodwars]

With the worldwide economy the way it is, convincing anyone to do major HD games exclusively for PS3 is almost a pipe dream. Few are going to want to jump on a sinking ship which PS3 is.

Well, I don't know about that.  The 360's days are numbered now, with nothing really of interest left that's exclusive to it.  Meanwhile, the PS3's powerful enough to have legs for quite a few more years yet, so it has longeavity.  Besides, if the Wii could sell the way it has with the library it has, I'll believe anything's possible.

[NWR_insanolord]

With the worldwide economy the way it is, convincing anyone to do major HD games exclusively for PS3 is almost a pipe dream. Few are going to want to jump on a sinking ship which PS3 is.

Well, I don't know about that.  The 360's days are numbered now, with nothing really of interest left that's exclusive to it.  Meanwhile, the PS3's powerful enough to have legs for quite a few more years yet, so it has longeavity.  Besides, if the Wii could sell the way it has with the library it has, I'll believe anything's possible.

First off, I have to say it's really stupid to be making judgments about a console's library 3 weeks before E3. Second, the PS3's list of exclusives is no better than the 360's, and if neither console has a significant lineups of exclusives the 360 will continue to outsell the PS3 because it's less expensive. Third, Microsoft would love to let this generation continue on like Sony would but Microsoft will end it and begin a new one in the next couple years just to screw Sony and as a possible side benefit maybe gain some ground on Nintendo. Fourth, and last, while all this is going on Nintendo will amass so much money that they will invent and build their own fleet of solid-gold Airships.

[GoldenPhoenix]

PS3's power compared to 360 is pretty negligible hardware wise, they are quite evenly matched regardless of the smoke Sony tries to blow about its power. Not only that but 360 is decimating Sony still in most territories besides Japan. People have been running from Sony like they've had the plague. Only Square is sticking with Sony in regards to major 3rd party support and that is even questionable with FF13. Not only that, but like stated right above me E3 is just 3 weeks away and if anyone actually has been, you know, PAYING ATTENTION, would realize that companies have been holding back game revelations so far in regards to this holiday season besides a select few titles

Also the Wii statement is ridiculous at best, the Wii has been selling so well because it has games that expands the audience, just because broodwars doesn't like them doesn't make them worthless.

[broodwars]

Also the Wii statement is ridiculous at best, the Wii has been selling so well because it has games that expands the audience, just because broodwars doesn't like them doesn't make them worthless.

I've made no secret of the fact that the Wii's library just isn't for me outside a few key titles, and honestly I don't think it's for most people who grew up with games.  In the past I've tried to articulate exactly why this is, and I have been unsuccessful in putting together my thoughts in a coherent manner.  It wasn't until recently (oddly enough, while playing Dead Space) that I realized what the problem is: most Wii games are like candy.  They're fun and entertaining in short bursts, but when you get down to it there's little of substance there and the experience is over fairly quickly (plus, it's easy to develop Wiimote arthritus).  If you're into that sort of thing, good for you but they just don't have the length and depth of the kind of games I enjoy and come back to time and time again.  I have a massive backlog of PS2 games, and combined with my growing PS3 library it's likely that I'll never play them all to completion.  It's comforting, though, to know that I could pick any 2 or 3 of them and just game the hell out of a given day/weekend without growing bored or artificially tired from controller waggling.  I just don't get the same sort of satisfaction with Wii games, as they're developed for this completely different audience that finds comfort in mediocrity.  That's not to say there aren't good/great games in the Wii's library and there's sure to be more, which is why I still have my system (though it's out on loan at the moment).  It's that most Wii games are content to be 7-8 hour spastic waggle-thons and little more.  I just hope we have more games of substance on the horizon like Arc Rise Fantasia; Fragile; and (I hope) the Conduit.  Hopefully, E3 will be that (god I hate to use this cliche) beacon of light.