Topic: New Super Mario Bros. Wii

[Mop it up]

Some of that is due to the translations.
But hey, if you want to view them as unique characters then I'm not stopping you, just explaining the reason for the lack of distinction.

[that Baby guy]

Some of the personality, maybe, but Yoshi clearly is familiar with Mario and clearly translates what the other Yoshi's say in Super Mario RPG.  It's also clear that Nintendo's been very consistent when it comes to Yoshi, and that Yoshi's have their own language, yet the very first one in Super Mario World does speak to you, too.

Since there is a main Yoshi that is friends with Mario, and since lately, Yoshi and Birdo are considered a pair, I would like to believe that the main Yoshi is paired with the main Birdo, as well, and that it's these two that participate in all the Mario Parties, as well as all the sports.  Saying otherwise is turning a blind eye to just about half of the Mario titles out there that feature information about Yoshi.

[Mop it up]

They may have made Yoshi a bit more involved but he still follows the same concept, even if it is less so than other characters. He still doesn't have a unique name or completely distinct personality.

Mario characters are intentionally vague so people can interpret them however they want.

[EasyCure]

They may have made Yoshi a bit more involved but he still follows the same concept, even if it is less so than other characters. He still doesn't have a unique name or completely distinct personality.

Mario characters are intentionally vague so people can interpret them however they want.

Does that means that Boshi is its own unique character and species as well?

Wouldn't goombas and koopa troopas fall into the "one in the same" category as well? But we have numerous distinct goomba and koopa characters in many of the different Mario RPG games..

Whatever, its a silly argument.

You Americans all want to think that Toad, Yoshi, and Birdo are unique individuals, but they actually are not.

The Japanese have a concept that a person or creature can simultaneously be an individual as well as every member of his or her group. That's what you see with these characters. Every Toad that you see has a mushroom head, wears a vest, and has the same personality. Every Yoshi that you see, they're all named Yoshi, they all spout gibberish, and they all have the same personality. Every Birdo that you see is named Birdo, wears a bow, ring, and makeup, and has the same personality.

The Japanese makes no distinction that any Toad, Yoshi, or Birdo is a unique individual from the rest. They are all one and the same.

You're not American? Thats news to me!

[Ian Sane]

Except games like Super Mario RPG and Super Mario 64 show otherwise for at least Yoshi.  Toad is up for discussion, as well as Birdo, but there have been several times that there's only one Yoshi, and often, he is different than all the other ones.

Super Mario RPG also has an individual Toad.  He acts as a tutorial throughout the game.

I think it was Super Mario 64 that started using "Toad" as a generic term for a race of people.  Before that they were usually called Mushroom people or something to that effect.  Citizens of the Mushroom Kingdom.

Yoshi's Island uses "Yoshi" as a generic term but Super Mario RPG treats Yoshi as the name of one guy and has Boshi which is inconsistent with Yoshi's Story's later stating that all Yoshis are named Yoshi.

The thing is Nintendo doesn't care much about continuity, so they suck at it.  We might as well treat each Mario game as its own entity because they'll just pull inconsistent stuff out of their ass at a moment's notice.  It's also worth nothing that the Mario franchise has been handled by tons of different developers.  EAD does one thing.  IS does something else. Square had their own ideas.

I'd like it to be consistent and it does bug me but it's never going to be that way and fixing it would require some sort of DC Crisis like storyline anyway.

I'm a little more irritated by Zelda though since it doesn't have the scope of spinoffs that Mario has and should be easy to keep consistent but is a complete mess.  Metroid is pretty solid and I think that's because Yoshio Sakamoto cares about that stuff so unlike Miyamoto he has the made effort to keep the continuity consistent.

[AV]

On the newest Nintendo Voice Chat podcast fromIGN Craig Harris said the different characters DO NOT PLAY ANY DIFFERENT THAN MARIO, and it's only model swap.

So Luigi does NOT have a slipper movement and bigger jump and toads are not faster in running.

It wasn't the final build that Craig played, so maybe that will be fixed but that would be really disapointing. I actually enjoyed playing Luigi different and Toads differently, that could add some subtle replay value as you play as other characters and compensate for the differences. I played Super Mario Brothers 2 ( Lost levels ) with slippery Luigi on the VC and it drastically changed the experience and was very fun and hard to play in that fashion.

[BlackNMild2k1]

They really should give you both options.
Play with the characters traits, and the option to play as model swapped character so no one has any advantagesor disadvantages over the other players just because there was only one mario, luigi or toad.

[Ian Sane]

So Luigi does NOT have a slipper movement and bigger jump and toads are not faster in running.

I'd argue that this is more correct.  The best Mario games treated Luigi as just a palette swap of Mario.  The different play styles come from a game that wasn't originally a Mario game in the first place.

[ThomasO]

No, SMB2J came before Doki Doki Panic, and it had differing play styles.

[vudu]

Are you really ranking Lost Levels up there with "the best Mario games"?

Ian's obviously referring to the original SMB and SMB3.

[Mop it up]

Does that means that Boshi is its own unique character and species as well?

No, he's a unique character with a distinctive name and personality.

Wouldn't goombas and koopa troopas fall into the "one in the same" category as well?

For the most part, yes.

But we have numerous distinct goomba and koopa characters in many of the different Mario RPG games..

Yes, because they have names and personalities.

You're not American?

Not through choice.

Ian Sane makes some great points, some I might have thought of myself if it weren't 4AM at that time.

[Ian Sane]

Ian's obviously referring to the original SMB and SMB3.

And SMW naturally.

I forgot about Lost Levels though so I'm wrong about unique Luigi debuting in Doki Doki Panic.  Still everyone controlling the same is not out of the ordinary for Mario games.  Nintendo has used both methods.

[that Baby guy]

Generally, it seems like in most of the 1-player Mario games where you can choose between Mario and Luigi, there's a difference between the two, but in the multi-player, even alternating games, there's not any change.

Hence, in this game, there's no change in characters, so everyone gets to play fairly, and no one will care about controls.

That said, I still think they should allow unlockable characters that control differently, for after you beat the game and do certain accomplishments.

[Luigi Dude]

A new trailer has appeared.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxgn9cRBeGU

[broodwars]

IGN has some new information up on the "Novice Mode" "Super Guides" in NSMBW: apparently, when you die more than 8 times in a given level a green "Super Guide" block appears at the beginning of the stage.  If the player hits it, Mario is swapped out for Luigi and Luigi plays through the level automatically.  Luigi only clears the level, though.  He does not reveal secrets.  There's also a special icon on the main menu if the player clears the game without triggering a Super Guide block.

http://wii.ign.com/articles/103/1035661p1.html

[that Baby guy]

Nice trailer, Luigi Dude.  I didn't know Yoshi's had their flutter-jump ability still.  I can't wait!

[BeautifulShy]

IGN has some new information up on the "Novice Mode" "Super Guides" in NSMBW: apparently, when you die more than 8 times in a given level a green "Super Guide" block appears at the beginning of the stage.  If the player hits it, Mario is swapped out for Luigi and Luigi plays through the level automatically.  Luigi only clears the level, though.  He does not reveal secrets.  There's also a special icon on the main menu if the player clears the game without triggering a Super Guide block.

http://wii.ign.com/articles/103/1035661p1.html

Luigi Dude posted about this a few pages back. Try and keep up.

Nice trailer Luigi Dude.

[broodwars]

IGN has some new information up on the "Novice Mode" "Super Guides" in NSMBW: apparently, when you die more than 8 times in a given level a green "Super Guide" block appears at the beginning of the stage.  If the player hits it, Mario is swapped out for Luigi and Luigi plays through the level automatically.  Luigi only clears the level, though.  He does not reveal secrets.  There's also a special icon on the main menu if the player clears the game without triggering a Super Guide block.

http://wii.ign.com/articles/103/1035661p1.html

Luigi Dude posted about this a few pages back. Try and keep up.

Bite me.  It was a new story dated today on IGN and I didn't see anyone on the current page talking about the feature so I figured it hadn't broken yet.

[BeautifulShy]

Read the topic before posting news.

[EasyCure]

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT

[Mop it up]

I think it's just going to be Mario, Luigi, and Toad. It seems like the development focus of this game is on the level designs, not the characters, and the fact that there are two of Toad instead of including a fourth character doesn't bode well for secret characters.

Of course, I'd love to be surprised, but I'm not expecting anything.

[Stogi]

The level designs look fantastic.

[Mop it up]

Exactly. That's what is important, not the characters.
I know it is cliché, but look at the levels of the Subspace Emissary in SSBBrawl. Those levels were pretty poorly designed because they had to accommodate 35 characters each with a different moveset. If all characters have the same ability then the level designs can be much more focused and clever.

[D_Average]

Exactly. That's what is important, not the characters.
I know it is cliché, but look at the levels of the Subspace Emissary in SSBBrawl. Those levels were pretty poorly designed because they had to accommodate 35 characters each with a different moveset. If all characters have the same ability then the level designs can be much more focused and clever.

True, as good as SMB 2 was, it just didn't have that tight feel of the others.

[that Baby guy]

Nah, you build the levels just as you would, and focus on the characters as secondary things.  Some of Super Mario World didn't work properly with Luigi when it was re-released on the GBA.  Sections where you had to run a certain speed to make it through, and tall Luigi couldn't make it fast enough, so he'd take a hit or die, or whatever would happen.

They can make the game around Mario, then just do whatever they like with the characters.  The issue with the Subspace Emissary isn't the same.  The focus was on combat, and not level design, at all, and as such, it left much to be desired.  In addition, most, if not all characters were modified so that movement speeds and jump heights were very similar when it came to the Supspace Emmisary.