Topic: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?

[BlackNMild2k1]

I'm sure that adding a minuscule amount of extra flash to the 3DS wouldn't actually require more space.
and even if it did, so what. So the 3DS would have been a millimeter wider, no one would notice.

But knowing that there is 4-8GB of onboard memory at all times means that apps, saves, widgets, DLC etc etc. can be planned for and warez don't have to have size limits. Sure you can always expand and that's fine, but we're talking about Nintendo justifying the price here, not consumers customization options. They could have spent an extra $1.50 per unit on a better battery, an extra $2 on more internal flash and $0.80 more on 1 more vga camera to allow for inwards facing 3D ant their profit margin would still be almost ~$95.

And the biggest thing about the cameras, the flash and the battery, is that if they had spent that little bit extra then, and the 3DS continues to sell, then those are likely all the same parts they will be using for the WiiU and that means that they will be even cheaper 12 months from now. That means for whatever size flash chip they were gonna use in WiiU, it would've been that much cheaper by the time they need to place the order.

[DAaaMan64]

My cellphone has better graphics, a faster processor and was 50 dollars cheaper. >.< thats becoming a problem.

[Oblivion]

My cellphone has better graphics,

Bullshit x10000000000000

[Adrock]

@BlackNMild2k1 - I get what you're saying but I still don't see those additions making much of a difference. For parents, they can't see the extra internal flash memory or the larger capacity battery and an additional analog slider wasn't the tipping point to begin with. For gamers like me and you, we know those additions don't come close to bridging the price gap between the MSRP and what we suspect 3DS is actually worth since we know those parts are relatively cheap. All good things, but hardly the difference maker. For most people, the price is still too high.

Nintendo is still in a good position; they're just getting a big slice of humble pie. 3DS is not and will not be a failure. Vita will not change anything. Sales will undoubtedly rise during the holiday season when people are more willing to drop tons of money especially with the release of big titles like Mario Kart. All will be right with the world though Nintendo should know that they will sell far less than expected because the price of entry is too high, even for the market leader 20+ years running.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I'm not trying to start another debate, but my ideas were just some minor last-minute things they could have done if they decided they were gonna raise the price based on fanbase enthusiasm and tell us that's what they were gonna do. A little surprise like "Guess what!? We decided to bump the internal flash in addition to the SD card we pack in... but that's not all!! We also added a 3D camera to the inside lid to that you can do 3D video chat with people on your friends list!! Oh you thought we were done!? Nope, we also added that 2nd analog that all you gamers keep crying about!! and all for the same price that we announced a few short months ago!!"
I bet that some of that deflated enthusiasm that they are seeing now could have been minimized even if the majority of it was inevitable because of the price and the lack of games to make most consumers over look it.

And I thought about starting a new thread for this, but I'll just drop it here instead
iSupply 3DS cost vs DSi cost (at release)

click pic for larger image

[Luigi Dude]

Well I'd love for Nintendo to lower the price, but they're not going to.  According to the sales reports in Japan and Europe, 3DS hardware sales have rises in the last week because of Ocarina of Time 3D.  Considering Zelda is most popular in North America, I'd say there's about a 100% chance sales have risen here as well.

So if a graphically enhanced port of a decade old Zelda game, from a series that normally does much worse on handhelds then consoles, was able to boast sales during the Summer, which is normally a slow period for hardware sales, imagine what Mario Kart 3DS is going to do this holiday season.  And when combined with Super Mario (Mario 64 DS has sold around 8 millions copies so 3D Mario is quite popular on handhelds as well), this is why Nintendo is not going to drop the price anytime soon and has no need.

[SupaKirb]

I don't want to sound like I'm totally against a price drop... but I kinda am. I think it's all fair and good to lower this systems price point, but not at this very moment.

People like me, who went to launch and picked the 3DS up, had to pay 250 big ones (plus state tax for me.) It doesn't really seem fair to be honest, with what I call our "Nintendo dedication." I mean look, we bought the system with half of it missing. We didn't have the Internet browser at launch, and we certainly didn't have the eShop. I think that's a big deal, and I wouldn't feel too great to know that I bought this thing at launch for nothing. Granted, it was MY choice to pick the system up right away.

So If this pending price drop does happen, and the unite lowers to the price it was probably supposed to be at from the start, I would like to get something out of owning a 3DS before hand. A couple of free eShop purchases would only scratch the surface, but I would welcome them nonetheless. I'm just saying, anything to show some fan appreciation for the 3DS shouldn't be too much to ask with a price drop of the unit so early. It's in poor taste in my opinion to not offer at least some sort of promotion to current owners if it takes affect.

Anyways, I really think this is a possibility and that's why I took the time to share some initial thoughts. Hey, maybe they should go ahead and sell people the 2DS? I'm sure they could cut the systems selling point by at least 50 bucks with that. ^ ^

[ThePerm]

being that i purposely wasnt an early adopter like I was for the original DS, yes. A price drop would be great. Being competitive is important. If PSP2 is competitively priced and has better graphics then it will hurt 3DS. It is possible to lose a market. I want a shiny red 3DS at a lower price than those who bought it at launch. I bought the original DS and felt screwed when they came out with DS lite, DSi, DSXL.

[Chozo Ghost]

Cutting the price this early on would look really bad. Nintendo should have launched at a lower price right from the beginning so that the price didn't even need to be cut. There was no need for a huge markup. I think it was extremely foolish and arrogant of Nintendo to price it as they did. The DS was a huge success, and obviously that success went to their heads, but it is by no means certain that the 3DS will have the next handheld generation locked up tight the way the DS did in the last generation.

Sony went from being the market leader in console to third place in a very short time because of their arrogance in pricing the PS3 at $600. The 3DS thing isn't quite as bad to the same degree, but its the same sort of thing. Sony circa 2006 should serve as a lesson that being arrogant and gouging consumers can backfire and can and will result in you losing marketshare.

[Adrock]

Sony was foolish/arrogant to think they could launch a console for $600, but I wouldn't call it price gouging. PS3 was an excellent deal for what it was and Sony took a huge loss. Sony was simply trying to do way too much with their "PS3 is a computer" nonsense. Considering the hole they dug themselves in, PS3 could and probably should be doing worse.

Anyway, I'm not too concerned about a 3DS price drop. I expect one maybe around this time next year at the earliest so they can launch a redesign in November 2012 or so. I wasn't planning on buying 3DS until Nintendo redesigns it because a price drop isn't going to fix battery life.

[Ceric]

The double edge sword of redesigns rears it heads.  But considering it took till the 3DS to get rid of some of my DS annoyances...

[Chozo Ghost]

There may not be as many revisions of the 3DS as there were with the DS, because the 3DS itself benefits greatly from the R&D that went into the various DS revisions where Nintendo slowly worked out various kinks from the original Phat model. So right off the bat the 3DS has been built on a good stable foundation, so further revisions are less necessary.

That said, I'm sure there will be some. I'm just doubtful there will be quite as many because its kinda like certain species of animals which have been around for millions of years and haven't really changed much in all that time because they evolved to what works and there's little need to evolve further. They've found insects embedded in amber from like a hundred million years ago which are pretty much exactly the same as the ones around today, so the 3DS may be kinda like that.

[Mop it up]

The obvious answer is that the system shouldn't have launched at its current price, but we all know that so I guess it's pointless for me to bring that up. But it's left the 3DS in this sticky situation where it's a little overpriced for what you get, whereas it looks like the Vita won't be, from a hardware standpoint at least.

As much as Nintendo fans who have yet to get a 3DS would like a price drop, I don't think it is a good idea to do one anytime soon. To the average consumer, if the price drops when the Vita comes out, that will likely give the impression that it is inferior to the Vita. And while that's arguably true specs-wise, the games are what matter in the end. If the 3DS can bring the big hits (and looking at the upcoming lineup, it will), it won't need a price drop because people will buy the system that has the games they want to play.

The handheld market is different from consoles in many ways, one such being that handheld players care less about graphics than home system players. If this weren't the case, the PSP would have stomped the DS. So I don't anticipate the Vita's graphical prowess to be a factor like it is for the Wii vs the HD twins.

[Adrock]

Nintendo dropped the Gamecube's price 6 months after launch from $199 to $149 so there's precedence for a quick price drop. The key differences being Gamecube was getting pimpslapped around by the competition and Nintendo's profit margin was much smaller than what most suspect of 3DS. That said, 3DS is in a much better position than Gamecube ever was. Nintendo can drop the price and still make a profit. I just don't see them doing so nor do I see them having a reason to. Vita changes nothing.

Vita has a lot to prove and I wonder if Sony will be foolish enough to port Vita games over to PS3 like they did with several PSP games to PS2. In fact, they're still doing it. God of War Ghost of Sparta came out in November 2010 and less than a year later, they're porting it and Chains of Olympus to PS3 with bumped up graphics and extras. I bought Ghost of Sparta at full price, dammit! **** if I fall for THAT again. I usually end up owning every piece of hardware but it's almost as if Sony is trying to convince me that I already own a Vita and it's just wrapped in a larger box that plays Blu-Ray discs. If I just have to wait a year or 2 for them to port say Uncharted: Golden Abyss and they're going to add stuff to it to sweeten the deal, why would I ever buy Vita?

Point being, if this is the path Sony is taking, count me out. I'll skip Vita if Sony gives me a reason to. On top of that, Nintendo should be just fine regardless of price because unless WiiU gets a 3DS Player, I and many others still have really good reasons to buy 3DS. Nintendo doesn't port handheld games to their home consoles in the same generation and they shouldn't because that's sheer foolishness.

[stevey]

The price isn't that bad and you only pay it once.

What's fucking outrageous is the damn $40 price tag on games! That needs to drop like a stone to ≤$30

[Chozo Ghost]

What's fucking outrageous is the damn $40 price tag on games! That needs to drop like a stone to ≤$30

$39.99 isn't that bad at all, in my opinion. DS games retailed at $34.99 so 3DS games are only a mere $5 more. Is $5 more really such a big deal? If the price "dropped like a stone" to $30 like you suggest then they would actually be cheaper than DS games. Why should they be cheaper than DS games when graphically they are superior?

[NWR_insanolord]

The problem is that all the games are $40. $40 is fine for some games, but shouldn't be the standard for everything.

[Ymeegod]

Here's a fair point just because the raw materials add up to $100 doesn't mean Nintendo's overcharging.  There's tons of expenses that have to be factor in like labor, manufacturing, research, marketing, just to name a few. 

 

[oohhboy]

No it's not a "fair" point. Even when given a generous $50 markup for shipping, R&D (A fixed cost that goes down with every unit sold) and other sundries, it's still $100 dollars more expensive than a traditional pricing point which is normally at or slightly above factory to retail costs.

It's considered traditional due to the fact you want people to buy your console, increasing your user base, therefore increasing the amount of games sold, in this case Nintendo takes a cut on every single one.

The most likely explanation for the missing $150 dollars is that the majority of it is profit.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I've already made this point, but here is another fair point.

Nintendo is charging roughly $150 over manufacturing & assembly PER 3DS unit sold.
taking a generous $50 (PER 3DS) of that to cover R&D, marketing and Shipping, and Nintendo still has a chunky $100 profit margin to play with.

Nintendo may have charged as much as they did because they thought the market was gonna trip over itself to buy it at that price, and maybe with the right games, lots of people still will, but that doesn't mean that Nintendo obviously over estimated demand @ $250 and probably should have introduced the hardware at a less inflated price point that still would have been very profitable out of the gate.
Then they could have enjoyed a healthy profit margin and a good mindshare from actual sales instead of the stalled enthusiasm they are experiencing right now.

Once again, quality software might turn that around, but as of right now there is not alot happening on the 3DS side of things outside of OoT and that is a 15 year old game.

[Ymeegod]

Sigh, I work in manufacturing for the past ten years so and the biggest cost is always labor.

For example what I used to make:  if you broke down the components the total cost was $238 yet we ended up charging $800 for $103 profit.  Labor was a big chunk of that and why the company I worked for outsourced everything in the end.  Two nintendo doesn't make everything internal which means other people are out to make a profit as well--in nintendo's case: memory.  All three manufacures have to deal with partners and that's going drive price upwards.  The 3DS only has 128MB or memory so some asshat compared it to what 128MB or ram costs on the PC but that ram is customized--meaning Fujitsu isn't charging anywhere's near the price quoted. 

Again, Nintendo's looking closer at $20-30 profit.  Less when they launch another marketing blizt which is stated to be another 300 million.

[Ymeegod]

"My cellphone has better graphics, a faster processor and was 50 dollars cheaper. >.< thats becoming a problem"

?  Did your cellphone have a contract?  Most likely that's why your phone only costed that much.  Driods are roughly $500 new without one, same as Iphones.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Sigh, I work in manufacturing for the past ten years so and the biggest cost is always labor.

I wasn't aware that you worked at a Chinese or Taiwanese Assembly factory getting at best about $20 a day.
BTW iSupply is the "asshat" that does these cost breakdowns for a living. They take manufacturing and bulk ordering into account and have been regarded as fairly accurate in their estimates. Labor is taken care of at Foxconn where the average employee isn't making all that much and they probably would make more if they got paid 1 dime($0.10) per Nintendo product they touched during assembly than the salary they are currently getting.

It's the whole reason every company outsources. Cheap labor. It cost almost nothing on a per unit basis.

[Ymeegod]

Chinese or Taiwanese?  True but that doesn't explain the managers/engineers ect who are all Japanese.  And Nintendo still have factories in Japan, not sure what the ratio is anymore or what they even make. 

And Foxconn is a third party--which again their estimates don't factor in the profit they are taking from the top.

And Isuppli just takes what "one" company can do and how much it would cost them if they did everything themselves but that's a far cry from the real world.
 

 

[oohhboy]

Japanese managers and engineers aren't American. The Japanese pay scale is far less disparate than their American equivalent. The article is from 2006, but considering the average CEO in Japan only earns 11 times the average workers wage compared to Americas 475 times, the cost of the managers in assembly is negligible.

Things are very different in Japan. Here is an Article from 2010 featuring Iwata. He only earning 2.1 Million while Activision CEO Bobby Kotick earned 3.1 Million with 40 million in options despite running a company a fraction the size.