Author Topic: Editorial: PlayStation or Xbox?  (Read 31345 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Hostile Creation

  • Hydra-Wata
  • Score: 2
    • View Profile
RE:Editorial: PlayStation or Xbox?
« Reply #50 on: October 26, 2004, 03:54:13 PM »
Quote

Nintendo needs games as unique and dramatic as GTA or Halo and they really need a solid stream of them. Old franchises are no good, as I think Resident Evil and Metal Gear Solid have probably proven by now


Grand Theft Auto is hardly a new franchise.  Not as old as some, but probably about the age of Resident Evil.  Less games in the franchise, yes, but they're starting to push for that, too.  And it hurts to hear someone says that GTA and Halo are unique.  I haven't got anything against the games, really, but they certainly lack in that category.
In large part, I need to agree with Robageejammin.
I'm not interested in playing GTA, or very many third party games at all, for that matter.  A few games I regret missing, but there are other Nintendo games that I would buy that I couldn't before I bought those anyway.  So I'm not concerned about what Nintendo is getting.
I'm merely concerned about the image they have, and I wish more people acknowledged their greatness.  I wish GTA and such games would come to Nintendo systems for your sake, if not mine.  I know that I don't know how this can be done, but I can see that Nintendo's reputation is picking back up.  Sure, Xbox and Playstation are still the most commonly known, but I'm seeing more and more recognition for the Gamecube as time goes on.  For now, I'll sit back, hope, and continue to buy Nintendo games.
HC: Honourary Aussie<BR>Originally posted by: ThePerm<BR>
YOUR IWATA AVATAR LOOKS LIKE A REAL HOSTILE CREATION!!!!!<BR><BR>only someone with leoperd print sheets could produce such an image!!!<BR>

Offline JonLeung

  • Score: 2
    • View Profile
RE:Editorial: PlayStation or Xbox?
« Reply #51 on: October 26, 2004, 04:13:26 PM »
That question irks me a lot too.

I own a GameCube (well, who here doesn't?) and a PC (again, who here doesn't?).  What I find amazing is that several of the best PS2 and Xbox games I don't miss out on, because a good deal of them also come out for the PC.  And who, in this day and age, doesn't have a PC?  Whether or not it's a gaming PC doesn't matter, if you can wait - in a few years any default PC would be able to play today's games.  It may not play tomorrow's games, but there's the absolute guarantee that anyone in a few years can play SW: KOTOR, GTA III, GTA: Vice City, MGS2 Substance, etc. etc. etc.  Given the fact that the overrated Final Fantasy VII never seems to leave people's minds, people aren't averse to playing something one generation back, and why not on a piece of hardware that's inevitably going to be in your home?  The most logical choice in my mind is, get a GameCube for exclusive games you can't get anywhere else, use your PC for the Xbox and PS2 games.

Of course, no matter how RATIONAL or FACTUAL I can outline my opinions about Nintendo or any other thing for that matter, a lot of people go with what's "cool".  If you can make a useless gizmo look cool, people would want that over the most equipped Swiss Army Knife.  That's just the sad thing about this world.  No one likes to think.  And moreso, everyone's too concerned about their image.  Super Mario games may be fun, Pokemon games may be deep and involving, Zelda may have well-crafted worlds, but since they're too colourful, I know several people that are averse to playing those games.

People are hypocritical sometimes when it comes to "cool" stuff.  They want a PS2 because it's the most popular, but then when the GameCube has almost always been ahead of Xbox sales worldwide, they want an Xbox.  If what's "popular" is "cool", then the GameCube should be "cooler" than the Xbox.  Hypocrites.

Nintendo CAN be cool.  It starts with the marketing.  And, unfortunately now, it means one-upping Sony (and Microsoft).  Of the people I know, it seems like a lot of people fell out of gaming in the 16-bit days (a shame, those were some of the best times I had).  This would be late junior high/early high school for me, when people have the greatest insecurities and gaming was still nerdy.  When they saw how "cool" gaming could be at the start of the 3D era, when the PSX became "cool", I think they felt that Nintendo couldn't keep up as well, and most of those casual gamers have a preference for the PlayStation consoles and seem resistant to Nintendo becoming cool again.  It's like if they were the first to say, "Hey, Nintendo's cool again", people would think they were out of step.  So no one's the first to bravely say that Nintendo's cool, and it never could be because no one seems to say so.  I have no doubt in my mind that some of those who did play games before remember a time when Nintendo was cool, and I've noticed that they're actually the ones who adamantly seem to be the most against Nintendo.  As if they cling to the PlayStation name to assert that they're cool.  Sheesh.

Offline A Letter to God

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE:Editorial: PlayStation or Xbox?
« Reply #52 on: October 26, 2004, 04:19:48 PM »
I think that everyone is taking the cultural impact of Nintendo too lightly. The Nintendo entertainment system was the first major console, and has one of the best selling games of all time in the original Super Mario Bros.; also if you asked a common person to name a video game character, you'd get Mario, he's an icon in his own right.
Also, as a few people have said, Nintendo may not have done it with the best marketing, but they took the leap, they were the First Penguin; we would not have the games we do today with out Mario, Zelda or Metroid. Let's examine Mario, this series is one filling every nook of the industry due to it's staying power and constant originallity. Mario is able to do more then run and jump, and the hardcore players know that, it's just your GTA and Madden college dorm kids that have forgotten it, and they are really who PS2 and Xbox aim for. Nintendo needs to do that more, they need to become rated M, but with Nintendo's typical class, not going to "just kill 'em all with what ever ya want".
Let's examine the Legend of Zelda series. Believe it or not, this series is why you have your GTAs and other free roaming games, and you massive worlds. Back when we had Legend of Zelda: Occarina of Time, yes, we all complained about the tedium of crossing Hyrule Field, but really think about the significance of that, and the ability to go where ever you want from the get go; the first place I visited other than Kokiri village was Lake Hylilia. But we forget that that world is why developers realized there was something to that massive area.
Now onto Metroid, in America, that was a killer app for the Nintendo, in Japan it wasn't as much, but Nintendo stuck to it, and it's payed off, since the Metroids (from Fusion to now) have been good selling games, with high acclaim from American gamers.
It is my belief, and you may correct me if I'm wrong, that Nintendo is bound to the industry, since we will lose the games we first played (for my generation, at least). Nintendo was really what started the industry we have now, all thanks to a plummer named Mario, and I think, personally, that Nintendo will be there when it ends, since they provide the most original gaming (Halo isn't that original, it's a mesh of all FPS's, but Metroid Prime is), and they are always among the best games, with high critical acclaim. But NCL must also let NOA regulate it's marketting alone, and allow them to put some appeal to the low-brow cassual gamers that polls like this are geared to; as well as make their own Live, it's not like they couldn't use one of the many Nintendo catch phrases for something interconnecting to give it the Nintendo glow.
Anyway, this is my opininon, agree or disagree.
It's times like this that make me  embarrassed to be human.

Offline nickmitch

  • You can edit these yourself now?!
  • Score: 82
    • View Profile
    • FACEBOOK!
RE:Editorial: PlayStation or Xbox?
« Reply #53 on: October 26, 2004, 05:27:07 PM »
What we all gotta understand here is that people are stupid. They can be tricked by mindless propaganda and the ever dreaded peer-pressure. The best example of this is MTV. All they show show is crap, crap and more crap with a little sh!t thrown in there every now and again. However, people still eat it up like it's chocolate Easter eggs (candy not religious reference)! People like sports so they play sports games. One buys a playstation so everyone else does too. Mindless violence has people thinking that GTA:SA will be the best game ever. It really won't. It's the same crap just bigger and with some bad things worked out (ie swimming). And as an african-american man I can say that it should really be called "Grand Theft Auto: Now With Blacks!" 'cause that's the oonly difference these eyes see. And yet people eat it up!
TVman is dead. I killed him and took his posts.

Offline seen33

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Editorial: PlayStation or Xbox?
« Reply #54 on: October 26, 2004, 05:35:29 PM »
WEll in my experiance i always here the "PS2 or xbox" argument at my schoo, at work, on the internet, and by game developers choosing to make games for systems.  Nintendo dug themselves a grave this gen by announcing no online support.  although online support may or may not be profitable... this doesent mean its not a factor that help people decide which platform to buy a game on.  LEts take the Upcoming goldeneye.  Who is honestly even going to consider a purchase for this game on the gamecube if they also own a ps2 or xbox?  I mean the xbox and ps2 versions will have online multipleyer and more.  

I have been a nintendo fan for life but the gamecube is like the last straw..  I was much more impressed with the N64s offerings..  Now with todays advanced features (onliune, hard drive voice etc) I just feel that my "n64 with better graphics" (aka gamecube) just doesent cut it.

I still own my GC and i wont sell it (i need it to play MP2 and zelda ) but thats the problem..  I (and thousands more) only bought a gamecube to play the marios zeldas and metroids..  we feel no need to play any other type of game on the GC...  i mean.. thats what my xbox with more features is for?

Personally I know alot of nintendo fanboy would hate me for this.. but I think Nintendo and M$ should merge or M$ buy out nintendo.   M$ showed interest i remember a while back of a buy out but of course nintendo would never sell.  Im hoping that nintendos "revolution" will fail horribly and put nintendo at so much a $ loss that they will be forced to sell to M$.  Then with nintendos great Everyone and 1st party support.. combined with M$ older gamer audiance, 3rd party games and use of lattest technology (specifically thier strong online stance) , it would be the greatest system ever and Would finally bring that Sony down to second (I dont like sony).  Of course something like this would take another 2 gens and sony is gonna win the next gen..  peoples opinions dont just change the next generation unless sony screwes up and chooses to ignore the lattest technology and switch to some sort of unwanted game format limiting game Features.  Sony is here to stay (as #1) unless some1 takes them down.. and its not gonna be nintendo or M$ alone unfortunetly...  PS3 will reign supreame next gen i can garuntee.  Of course lots will argue with me.. but Ps is just too powerful in the market

Well any way.. im looking forward to playing halo 2 online 16 players with my smart joy frag keyboard and mouse adaptar..  I suppose i can take a break from halo for a day or 2 to beat metroid Prime 2.. shelve it.. and get back to my halo 2.  I just wish nintendo would stop focusing on profits and focus on the fans.  I know thier a company and need profits... but I say just sacrafice a few $10s of millions of dollars profit (like xbox with live etc and sony did) to please the fans.  This actually helps in the long run.  I mean.. its just stupid small things nintendo does to make money that gets on my nerves like create GBA NES games for $20 each when u can clearly fit Every single NES game out on 1 damn cartridge.  Remember Mario all-stars for SNES?  Instead of porting that they port all the marios speratly to make more $.. err.  Another example is the GBA headphone adaptar u need for the GBA SP... Just more profit for big N and another way to get me angry.

Offline Ian Sane

  • Champion for Urban Champion
  • Score: 1
    • View Profile
RE: Editorial: PlayStation or Xbox?
« Reply #55 on: October 26, 2004, 06:08:51 PM »
"I think Nintendo and M$ should merge or M$ buy out nintendo. M$ showed interest i remember a while back of a buy out but of course nintendo would never sell. Im hoping that nintendos "revolution" will fail horribly and put nintendo at so much a $ loss that they will be forced to sell to M$. Then with nintendos great Everyone and 1st party support.. combined with M$ older gamer audiance, 3rd party games and use of lattest technology (specifically thier strong online stance) , it would be the greatest system ever"

That's a terrible idea.  MS buying Nintendo doesn't mean Nintendo with online and third party support.  It means Microsoft making crappy games using Nintendo's licences.  I, and most fans, like Nintendo because of the games they make.  If someone buys them they would be someone else and would no longer make the types of games we love them for.  If MS bought them Nintendo would be like Atari, a NAME and nothing more.  

Offline Bartman3010

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Editorial: PlayStation or Xbox?
« Reply #56 on: October 26, 2004, 06:09:13 PM »
They could always make a comeback when the industry is flooded with sports and GTA clones =P
- Bartman

Mario Kart DS - 111728-668174
Metroid Prime Hunters - 3866-1460-2555
Tetris DS - 105680-429364

(Send PM if interested, you probably arent)
Better yet, check out #mariokartds on Esper.net, featuring the FriendCodeBot!

Offline VideoGamerJ

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE:Editorial: PlayStation or Xbox?
« Reply #57 on: October 26, 2004, 06:15:36 PM »
It's only a matter of time.

Offline Golden Maven

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE:Editorial: PlayStation or Xbox?
« Reply #58 on: October 26, 2004, 07:03:11 PM »
Merge Nintendo with Microsoft? Why?! For online support? Well, online is overrated IMO. Sure, it can be fun, I would know since Starcraft on Battle.net provided me with the most fun a game ever did. But for the online mode to be fun, you need good gameplay to begin with, and the online mode needs to be designed properly. All of the online console games I've tried were either boring and/or my attention span ran out very quickly (especially with all the waiting around and loading times... ugh). Maybe online Nintendo games would be fun though... I'm sure "Revolution" will have some online support anway, so we shall see.

As for 3rd party support, sure, it would help. But again, I think Nintendo are doing fine. They may not be n.1, but that's because times change. People want "mature" games now (gameplay comes second), and it's all about being cool and having the right look. I guess playing a game a kid could play is too much for some people. Talk about insecurity. These days, people look for realism - (I don't know why, I play games to escape reality, not play something that tries to mimic it) - and look for gore/violence, cause it's "cool" and part of "the real world" (funny, gore and violence ain't part of my world, I avoid it as much as I can and every other civilized person should do the same)

Maybe the next era will be different and be on Nintendo's side, who knows... But if it ain't, no big deal, they are still profitable and will always have supporters, i.e. the people who care about gameplay and enjoy the lighthearted/fantansy oriented games. Nintendo isn't going anywhere, and I personally don't care if I don't go for what's mainstream and "in".  

PS - Don't change, Nintendo!

Offline Caillan

  • Token New Zealander
  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Editorial: PlayStation or Xbox?
« Reply #59 on: October 26, 2004, 07:38:26 PM »
Nintendo making crap Halo-clones will kill it, a bad image will only restrain it. I play Nintendo's games because they're good. As soon as Nintendo starts co-developing Dead or Alive: Extreme Beach Volleyball 2, they've permanently lost my business. Micorsoft would sodomize Nintendo so much it doesn't bare thinking of.

With all the bullshit people are gobbling up now, the games industry will either gradually deflate (see Acclaim's bankruptcy) or crash. When it does crash, its not going to be Nintendo who are it the hardest.

Offline Procession

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Editorial: PlayStation or Xbox?
« Reply #60 on: October 26, 2004, 08:44:14 PM »
Nintendo's marketing is terrible. But Nintendo's real problem is they just don't know what's "cool". I mean, Sony got David Lynch to direct one of their launch commercials for PS2 - David friggin' Lynch, how neat is that? And it was a great commercial too. Releasing their console with indigo as a primary colour wasn't a good idea either - let's face it, it's really purple. Why not go with a nice snow white, or just stick with black. THe other serious mis-step is Nintendo's liason with "celebrities". We saw it with Donkey Konga, we saw it will the platinum party. Christina Aguilera and teenybopper pop punk groups doesn't increase Nintendo's appeal to anyone over twelve. The new Maxim campaign is also lame, I mean "playa" are you sh**ing me?!? I just find that condescending, if anything.

Their frigid reaction to onine gaming seriously hurts too - I can't help but fell they are being very short-sighted in that respect, thinking only about profit in the short-term, as opposed to the long term.

Nintendo also needs to develop some new franchises. Mario being pimped in every second game isn't good, because it means all people think when they think Nintendo is Mario, as opposed to great games.

Nintendo would also do well to make their next system an all in one. The reality is the Gamecube was $50 more than the competition rather than $50 less. Why? Because consumers looked at the opportunity cost - for only $50 more they could have a DVD player, instead of buying one for $100 extra and a Gamecube. Revolution should be Blu-ray or HD-DVD, 802.11b built-in and internet capable (not neccesarily WWW) so I can share my game saves with friends,  stream music from iTunes to my stereo, movies from VLC to my TV, etc. The Revolution should not be a games only console, but a complete digital hub - download photos from digital cameras, movies from DV and perhaps even basic editing functions. It's all about VALUE and it's all about connectivity, but not in the way Nintendo have been advocating.  

Offline Hostile Creation

  • Hydra-Wata
  • Score: 2
    • View Profile
RE:Editorial: PlayStation or Xbox?
« Reply #61 on: October 26, 2004, 08:51:18 PM »
Haha, bare thinking.  That's funny, in thecontext.
HC: Honourary Aussie<BR>Originally posted by: ThePerm<BR>
YOUR IWATA AVATAR LOOKS LIKE A REAL HOSTILE CREATION!!!!!<BR><BR>only someone with leoperd print sheets could produce such an image!!!<BR>

Offline ChaNoKin

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE:Editorial: PlayStation or Xbox?
« Reply #62 on: October 26, 2004, 09:22:30 PM »
I think the big N is in a tough place right now, for latin gamers buying games is really hard, they are expensive as hell and we cannot afford em all that much. One solution I see to the lack of popularity with gamers is to give em things to do with their console, not just gain dust until they can afford to buy a new game, for example xbox can do lots of things, because you can play homebrew software in it.

Now, in the other hand you have developers, Nintendo's slogan with'em should be, your games wont suffer piracy with us, and also they should really keep improving their bussiness relations, give more accessible licences, even if it means some really bad bad games, it also increases the chances to get one of those magic games we see once in a while.

Marketing should change, the times are not the same. Demo discs are awsome, no need to buy a crappy game if you can test it first, and NOT making them copy-proof would easily improve mouth-to-mouth publicity. I think its time to put out the swords and go to war, make innovative agressive publishing.

Offline Nephilim

  • Score: 1
    • View Profile
RE:Editorial: PlayStation or Xbox?
« Reply #63 on: October 26, 2004, 09:27:02 PM »
demo disk's are something we need
Cube magazine comes close with there cheat cd's (which harf the time dont work)
But we have been spoilt with demo's back in the psx era
I remember playing some of the demo's for hours, the same stage over and over

Offline Golden Maven

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE:Editorial: PlayStation or Xbox?
« Reply #64 on: October 26, 2004, 10:26:44 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Procession
Nintendo would also do well to make their next system an all in one. The reality is the Gamecube was $50 more than the competition rather than $50 less. Why? Because consumers looked at the opportunity cost - for only $50 more they could have a DVD player, instead of buying one for $100 extra and a Gamecube. Revolution should be Blu-ray or HD-DVD, 802.11b built-in and internet capable (not neccesarily WWW) so I can share my game saves with friends,  stream music from iTunes to my stereo, movies from VLC to my TV, etc. The Revolution should not be a games only console, but a complete digital hub - download photos from digital cameras, movies from DV and perhaps even basic editing functions. It's all about VALUE and it's all about connectivity, but not in the way Nintendo have been advocating.


No. I want a gaming machine, not some all-in-one entertainment device. Although it would be nice, think of the price. I applaud Nintendo for keeping the Gamecube hardware at a lower cost.

As for Blu-Ray or HD-DVD, I personally don't care. As long as there are no (or very short) loading times, I am happy. But I would never submit to having loading times for extra space that they mostly use for crap anyway (FMVs, voice acting, licensed music, etc.). So I also applaud Nintendo for going with these MiniDVDs, since they have the shortest loading times for this generation. And 1GB is plently for a quality game. You don't need more than that, unless you want all that crap I mentioned above.

 

Offline Kairon

  • T_T
  • NWR Staff Pro
  • Score: 48
    • View Profile
RE:Editorial: PlayStation or Xbox?
« Reply #65 on: October 26, 2004, 10:26:57 PM »
With all due respect, I still think that the key to this entire issue is cultural relevance. It isn't that Nintendo simply isn't culturally relevant anymore in the US market, it's that they're getting left behind by the Japanese culture as well (with that market shrinking to boot).

To restate, I believe that Nintendo simply will never be able to be in the "Playstation or XBox" question simply because Nintendo games are different. The style they're made in, the effort put into them, even the values that drive them, make Nintendo games among the highest quality, and most culturally insignificant videogames of our time.

Sony and Microsoft, even in their japanese game divisions, and along with a great many third parties, apparently keep up with modern culture. They make games about sports, warfare, sexual themes, movies, violent emotions and underground racing. They make games that the average American (or increasingly, Japanese) consumer can look at, and immediately correlate with a million other experiences they've encountered in their own life or through the media.

The rest of the industry makes games that are culturally in tune with the times:
cynical anti-heroes fighting terrorist nuclear armageddon (compare: 9/11),
Sexualized depictions of women (compare: Desperate Housewives on TV, Sex in the Movies, Maxim magazine),
Satyrical humor (compare: the Daly Show(god I love that show!), Bowling for Columbine, The Onion)
Sports (compare: The Boston Red Sox, The Super Bowl, Nekkid women playing beach volleyball a.k.a. Olympics)
etc.

Nintendo, god bless them, makes the best games in the world but doesn't make games that address our lives, and thus, is easily overlooked by consumers who need to shift through thousands of data points, and would appreciate something that they recognize more than something totally alien to them. The most culturally relevant thing that Nintendo's made is about ant-like creatures that run around a rural garden setting... But with the urbanization of our world, who has time for gardening? Who's even seen a plot of cultivated soil in the inner city?

This isn't bad. I don't blame Nintendo for making games that address our lives. In fact, it's probably the only way that Nintendo can focus purely on the artform of making the game, avoiding all the distractions of the modern world in order to create totally abstract, yet brilliant gameplay. And at the same time I don't blame people like my office co-workers for not knowing Nintendo exists, or my neighbors. Plumbers aren't relevant to their lives, Seinfeld and CounterStrike and romances are. There's absolutely no blame.

But that still leaves Nintendo lying squarely in the field of cultural irrelevance due to the very nature of their brilliant Nintendo games. Miyamoto and EAD create games that are so focused on amazing gameplay that they seem abstract and irrational and simplified from the viewpoint of modern culture.

And I don't think we can ask Nintendo to change that. Because to ask Nintendo to become culturally relevant, you'd destroy the legacy and style and quality of Miyamoto's work. How would Miyamoto or EAD develop a football game? There are already too many rules in football to follow, too much arcane trivia, too much obsession with glitz and pizazz. How would Miyamoto, the man who watches the ants in his garden, try to sell us a game where we're supposed to drive around a city stealing cars and commiting crimes? How would Miyamoto, the humble, salaried, family man, design a game that is focused on beautiful women and the fashion of wearing next to nothing? How would Miyamoto, who's always given us steadfast, straightforward heroes, give us a Max Payne? A Blood Rayne? A Daxter from Jak and Daxter? And doesn't he bike to work? How could we even expect Nintendo to give us a decent import car racing game then!?!

No, they would almost definitely fail. And they wouldn't be Nintendo anymore, because they'd have thrown away all their ideas about what videogames are about and how to make them. They'd have sacrificed their only strength, the only thing that makes them unique in this gaming industry, and they'd have exchanged it for a place at the bottom of the food chain being preyed upon not just by Sony and Microsoft and Electronic Arts, but also Midway and Atari and Tecmo.

And the thing is, as long as Nintendo's games stay culturally irrelevant, third parties will never, NEVER, make up the gap between the big N and the competition. They'd give Nintendo a few scraps, ports, an exclusive here and there, but it'd be lip service because anyone who actually wanted to sell to the market as a whole, the market that has a modern and evolving and inward-looking culture, would be on the PS3 or the XBox2. And Nintendo can wrestle as many exclusives from third parties as they want, but they'll never catch up that way. Viewtiful Joe 2 is coming out on the PS2: Nintendo's hard fought-for Capcom agreement is now moving over to PS2 territory.

It isn't about marketting. It isn't about technology. It isn't about corporate culture. That's all important, but they aren't the problem that keeps Nintendo out of the "PS2 or XBox?" question. The issue here is Nintendo's relevance to modern culture, modern times, and modern lifestyles. It's about people nowadays having the luxury to choose between a game inspired by gardenning, or exploring caves, or racing go karts and a game inspired by a sport, or a movie, or violence, and choosing the later.

I think it's time to face it. Nintendo's time for marketshare leadership has come and gone. They resurrected the gaming industry, they made it profitable, they made it international, they made it revolutionary. Now, it's time for other people to give the gaming industry what it didn't need in the 80's and 90's, but what it needs now.

But that still leaves each Nintendo fanboy his own dilemma.
Have my tastes changed? Am I now a modern gamer? Do I want to play Need for Speed Underground? Do I want to play The Guy Game (actually, I played The Guy Game recently... it rocked! The double-layered scoring system and the best 4-player minigames I've played in years! Even if it featured naked fat men I'd love it!)? Do I want to play Metal Gear Solid? Do I want to play Halo 2? Do I want to play GTA?
That's a personal question. Let me recommend this: Play Tales of Phantasia, then play Paper Mario 2. Compare. Play Mario Sunshine, then play Jak and Daxter 2. Compare. Play Harvest Moon, then play Animal Crossing. Compare. Play Yugioh, then Play Pokemon. Compare.
If, after you compare all those games, you think that you can live without Nintendo, you're a better man than me. Because I tried playing Dark Cloud 2, and it felt nauseous because I compared it to Windwaker. I just watched Jak and Daxter and had less fun than being crushed under the weight of a 260 pound friend of a friend of a friend (which happened that same night in fact).

For me, a gamer who can't afford two systems, and can tell if a game is Nintendo developed or not depending on the feel of the game control (for example: I hated F-Zero because it felt like a friggin Sega game...I want my F-Zero X back!)... for a person who's so attuned to Nintendo that I cannot enjoy 70% of the games out there in the market because I feel as if the developers were lazy and cheap and did little better than trained monkeys...
For a Nintendo fanboy like me, I couldn't care less whether other people even take the time to consider Nintendo when asking me what videogame system I play. Because the fact of the matter is, I've just come to care more about the games than Nintendo's prominence in the marketshare rankings, or their prominence in the mindset of a mass of unnamed teenagers and 20-somethings and whatevers out there. All I care about is that Nintendo keeps making Nintendo style games, Nintendo quality games, and Nintendo quality systems.

So yeah... Nintendo doesn't figure in the minds of others. Nintendo isn't culturally relevant. Nintendo games don't have complex and mature and cynical themes.
But given the choice between playing only Nintendo games vs. never playing a Nintendo game again, but playing anything else...basically, without Nintendo games, console gaming would be dead for me.

So I guess I've finally made my choice. My dilemma as a Nintendo Fanboy is over. I'm sticking with Nintendo, even if their as culturally irrelevant as a Japanese mastercraftsman in a world of slick businessmen and brutally efficient product cycles.

Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Carmine Red, Associate Editor

A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline idgaf

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE:Editorial: PlayStation or Xbox?
« Reply #66 on: October 26, 2004, 10:27:16 PM »
I'm probably beating a dead horse, but I agree Nintendo's marketing sucks.  The commercial for pikmin 2 was terrible.  I thought it would have been more appealing if they just showed me some clips of the game.  Further, I didn't even see that commercial much, not as much as the star wars commercials for the xbox at least.  Nintendo should fire all the dumb employees who are in charge of market research in the US.  No one cares about the dumb commercials and no one sees it.  Everyone at work talks about halo2 and how great it's going to be.  No one has even heard much about metroid prime 2.  I went as far as to place a stupid bet (world wide christmas sales of mp2 vs halo2) just to get a conversation about mp2 on the radar.  I have yet to see a single ad for mp2.  Why can't they just plaster the online game review sites, fill mags, or pay off some editor to put mp2 as a big story.  On ign, all you'll see is gta and halo in the front page.  You'd rarely see a mp2 article on the front page.  It's just sad...  At the least I wish nintendo would advertise mp2 better so that i can win my 1 dollar bet.

While this is completely pointless, I agree with Procession, Nintendo really should make the revolution a multipurpose console.  The consumers like to think they're going to be able to watch dvds on the console regardless of the likelyhood of usage.  People like to think they're somehow outsmarting the system.  They'd like to think they can easily pirate games( and even if they do, it doesn't seem to be hurtting game sales ie. ps, xbox).  Let the audience think they're getting a great deal without telling them.

Nintendo's dev kit sucks.  They don't even have an official dev kit for college gamers to play with.  If they're not going to reach out to third party devs, at least let the kids online try to make something good.  Nintendo needs to release their revolution dev kit now, much earlier than the release date of the revolution.  If not, at least they should spend the time to develop a configurable, customizable game engine so that thrid party game makers can license it and cut development cost.  Then Nintendo would be flooded with games (like counter strike built as a mod of half life).  Imagine if a company was offered the chance to make a game based off the metroid engine or the zelda engine, they'd jump at the chance.  May be nintendo is just too narrow minded, or may be i'm living in a dream world.  At the very least I think nintendo can offer to split advertisement costs of third party games if the game is going to be big and boost console sales.

P.S. it'd be great if someone can point me to a method for getting sales figures of games so I can settle the bet with my co-worker.  

Offline Kairon

  • T_T
  • NWR Staff Pro
  • Score: 48
    • View Profile
RE: Editorial: PlayStation or Xbox?
« Reply #67 on: October 26, 2004, 10:42:32 PM »
Hmm... I think of only two possible solutions out of the cultural irrelevancy mess I describe.

1. If you can't match modern culture. MAKE IT. Nintendo's done this briefly before, with Mario 64's revolutionizing of the 32/64-bit scene. And they did it again with much more permanence with Pokemon.
How do you make modern culture? You pre-emp it, you become the trendsetter. You don't follow others and set out in your own direction that no one's ever thought of before, and hope you're right. You could be wrong. You could be misguided. You could make a Virtual Boy. Or you could be the first and coolest and most relevant entity in a brand new market where all the rules are changed according to what you've done. Innovate.
This is a possibility, but is very, very, very hard. While the DS is likely to be a success, it probably won't be able to shift the paradigm enough to leave everyone else scrambling to catch up. Will the Revolution do it? Is it even possible?

2. Team up with someone else who IS culturally relevant and who can add reputation to your group. This would mean that Nintendo could continue to do it's own thing, but would have a partner, or partner's, who'd concentrate on their specialty: cultural relevance. And these partners would have to be a big name, and good enough and prolific enough to cause a massive shift in the market's power structure. But the games your partner would make would have to be as numerous as the games Nintendo makes, at least.
This would go beyond having small second parties to do your dirty work: Retro studios simply can't produce games fast enough to change Nintendo's image. Silicon Knights and Rare couldn't be depended upon. Third parties aren't the way either: RE failed to make much of a splash. We're getting too little too late from Namco and Capcom and Square.
It would need to be major exclusivity from a major name.
Compare: Ponderings of Nintendo and Microsoft teaming up: Nintendo can keep doing it's thing, while Microsoft can bring street cred, cultural relevance, and enough games to trick consumers into thinking that Nintendo's a company after their own hearts. EA would be an interesting pairing, but not only is that impossible, but EA has stated that they like having three systems alive and fighting in the market. Another avenue would be that Nintendo needs to discover some new blood that can scale up quickly to the big time, as in discovering another Rareware... but hopefully this time a Rareware that can make games  in less than 3 years.

Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Carmine Red, Associate Editor

A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline Ian Sane

  • Champion for Urban Champion
  • Score: 1
    • View Profile
RE: Editorial: PlayStation or Xbox?
« Reply #68 on: October 27, 2004, 07:47:17 AM »
I notice a lot of you are saying that Nintendo shouldn't change.  Well that's true.  They shouldn't change at least in terms of the games they make.  However they don't really have to change the types of games they make.  There is nothing wrong with the Cube's lineup of exclusives.  It's a good lineup and it's a better lineup than the Xbox's exclusives (of which there are few since a lot of their games are on the PC).  People just don't KNOW that the Cube lineup is really good.

Yesterday I went into Willow Video to browse.  Willow is a local store that is by far the best place to get games in my area.  They had a little sign in the front window about a midnight madness sale for Halo 2.  "Big deal" you say "tons of stores are doing that."  You don't understand though.  This store NEVER does stuff like that.  They don't even take pre-orders.  They get most of their new releases a few days later than everyone else (but at a lower price which is why they're the best).  The fact that Halo 2 is a hyped up enough title that this store is straying from their normal practice is significant.  Now realistically what makes Halo 2 cooler than Metroid Prime 2?  Both have cool space themes.  Both are mature.  Both have great graphics and sound.  Both are sequels to criticly acclaimed games that are considered by those in the know as the best game for their respective consoles.  The difference is that MS has good marketing and Nintendo doesn't.

Metroid Prime should be bigger than it is.  Rogue Leader should have been the most hyped game of 2001.  And to take things beyond the "mature" market Pikmin should be like Pokemon.  It appeals to kids and it has some of the best character designs ever.  Pikmin lend themselves incredibly well to toys.  Yet Pikmin is a niche game.  The "kids" market is supposed to be Nintendo's area.  This shows that Nintendo doesn't have to change their games.  They're making great games and ones that appeal to both adults and kids.  They're just doing a sh!tty job of getting people to notice these games.

They don't have to change their games and we don't want them to.  They don't have to do something insane like teaming with MS.  They just have to change their marketing strategies.

Offline KDR_11k

  • boring person
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
RE: Editorial: PlayStation or Xbox?
« Reply #69 on: October 27, 2004, 09:41:57 AM »
idgaf: Do you even know what an engine does? You cannot provide an engine for everyone, every type of game requires a different engine and you cannot expect Ninty to offer an engine for every thinkable type of game for free, especially since these things go from a few hundred thousand to a few million dollars.

Offline Hostile Creation

  • Hydra-Wata
  • Score: 2
    • View Profile
RE:Editorial: PlayStation or Xbox?
« Reply #70 on: October 27, 2004, 10:31:20 AM »
I'd always heard the Gamecube was very developer friendly.  Maybe I heard wrong.

I personally love Nintendo ads.  Almost all of them are really cool.  Inventive, interesting, hip, awesome, and intruiging.  Of course, I know about almost all the games they're talking about, so I never have a problem with that.  So Nintendo could add in some game clips, maybe, but I really like how their commercials are now.  The Who Are You commercials actually have a pretty good balance of cool/gameplay, though it could tip a little closer to the gameplay side.
HC: Honourary Aussie<BR>Originally posted by: ThePerm<BR>
YOUR IWATA AVATAR LOOKS LIKE A REAL HOSTILE CREATION!!!!!<BR><BR>only someone with leoperd print sheets could produce such an image!!!<BR>

Offline vherub

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Editorial: PlayStation or Xbox?
« Reply #71 on: October 27, 2004, 11:16:34 AM »
The american gamer has evolved past what the nes and snes offered.  Not that this is better or worse, but the choice is sports games, it is racing games, it is the open-ended violence sims like gta.  Nintendo has not catered to them with the gamecube and did not do well in the n64 years either.  And so gamers flocked to sony and xbox, because the perception had become that nintendo no longer offered what was desired.  Metroid Prime, fantastic game, but it is not the fps that gamers seem to love.  Mario Sunshine, another great game, but too difficult for how gamers played.  Wind Waker, fantastic visuals, but not what people watching mtv or reading maxim thought they wanted anymore.  Sports games on nintendo?  Either played worse, the controller handled poorer or were just not available?  Online?  Can the cube even go online should not even be something any developer would question.  Things that shouldn't by default matter to gaming, like the design of the console, now do.

Marketing is really the only way to fix nintendo's image, and it needs to be fixed because it is slipping towards irrelevance.  Sometimes you have to make sacrifices, and if that means catering to the tastes of the audience so that some other damn good games can be made, so be it.  I would rather see that than Nintendo fade into Atari.

Offline Jonnyboy117

  • Associate Editor
  • NWR Staff
  • Score: 37
    • View Profile
    • Nintendo World Report
RE: Editorial: PlayStation or Xbox?
« Reply #72 on: October 27, 2004, 12:59:32 PM »
Ian Sane and Kairon, I CHOOSE YOU!

Seriously, great posts all around.  Our readers are some of the smartest gamers I know.
THE LAMB IS WATCHING!

Offline nickmitch

  • You can edit these yourself now?!
  • Score: 82
    • View Profile
    • FACEBOOK!
RE:Editorial: PlayStation or Xbox?
« Reply #73 on: October 27, 2004, 03:48:46 PM »
Just the thought of Microsoftsoft buying Nintendo and using its licences makes me want to go shower. What a horrid idea.
TVman is dead. I killed him and took his posts.

Offline ssj4_android

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE:Editorial: PlayStation or Xbox?
« Reply #74 on: October 27, 2004, 04:09:58 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: VideoGamerJ
Quote

Originally posted by: ssj4_android
To answer the question, Xbox. What I think would be really sweet is if Microsoft's Xbox division and Nintendo combined. Microsoft's innovation + Nintendo's innovation = great. Like Donkey Konga would have been perfect with Live.



No thanks. I hope the day when Nintendo joins forces with Microsoft (makes games for them) is the day they stop making games. Hmm, familar quoting.

Donkey Konga would have been just as good over warppipe in my opinion, no need for people to pay fees.


When I said it would be perfect for Live, I was refering to paying to download new songs. Instead of having to buy a new disk for more songs, just download them. And try playing Burnout 3 on live and then try to play MKD over warp pipe. I haven't tried it, but I don't think I'd enjoy it. The problem with MKD is that it's very tunnel unfriendly. Playing Nintendo games online (truely designed for online) would be sweet, that's why I'd like Nintendo having at least some online service like Live. I like Xbox for the modding and for the hard drive. My GCN is in sucky condition now. It gets lots of disk reading errors, sometimes it won't even launch a brand new game. And the controllers wear out too easily. They mess up with things like the stick not being centered correctly on startup, forcing me to have to X+Y+Start. I'm not playing Paper Mario 2 right now because it just stops working as I'm playing it. But I'm rambling and these problems may be more specific to me. The Gamcube really needs the new Zelda game. And online.