Topic: RFN RetroActive #16 Poll - Second Chance Edition!

[TJ Spyke]

Apparently, there is an optimal time to use those items, but exactly how would you know that you're not supposed to use them as soon as you get them? And these games are so long, multiple playthroughs are out of the question for normal gamers, so really, these things to me seem to serve only one purpose: sell strategy guides.

Bingo. Some games also have stuff like hidden items that are so out of the way or require such specific actions to get that there is no chance you would find out about them with a strategy guide.

[broodwars]

I cannot wait to get started!

Does anyone here have tips to offer for people playing Ogre Battle for the first time?

One thing I hate about SRPGs is that I often feel they're a downgrade from pure strategy games, because of the random elements they add that you cannot know about unless you've played the game already or are using a guide. For instance, the whole idea of using some item to change class in Fire Emblem. Apparently, there is an optimal time to use those items, but exactly how would you know that you're not supposed to use them as soon as you get them? And these games are so long, multiple playthroughs are out of the question for normal gamers, so really, these things to me seem to serve only one purpose: sell strategy guides.

Anything like that in Ogre Battle? Any early-game decisions that noobs can make without thinking twice about it and that will completely screw them out of a chance to finish the game?

The best advice I can give is to make sure that your units are always set to "Attack Leader" and ensure that each of your units has a Cleric/Priest.  It's an easy exploit, but most enemy units are reduced to almost nothing when you kill their leader, making it easy to pin them into a corner and slaughter them.
 
The way that class changes work in Ogre Battle 64 is that each class has certain prerequisites that a unit must meet to switch classes (and note that you can switch classes as much as you like with a given character so long as it meets the prerequisites), like having a certain Strength stat or a certain Good or Evil alignment.  Certain pieces of equipment are also required, but you can buy most of them in shops and unlike Fire Emblem you can return to maps you have completed between missions to do any shopping or recruiting you desire.  It's complicated, but it's not that hard to figure out.  Also, once a character of that class joins your army, you can always see if anyone in your army can switch into that class with a few simple button presses.
 
I also highly suggest that you set the game speed to the fastest possible setting.  Units move across the maps very slowly.
 
If you can find the strategy guide, I highly recommend it.  I still have my copy and will be using it so I can see where the hidden items are on the map (which you find by moving your units over a particular piece of land on the map), but you don't have to have it.  The way the game decides your ending is determined by your "Chaos Frame".  VERY long story short: liberate a captured city using units whose average alignment between all characters in it is roughly that of the city's moral, and NEVER let an enemy unit capture a city.  There are 3 endings: one for low Chaos Frame, one for average Chaos Frame, and one for high Chaos Frame.  You can't see your Chaos Frame until the game ends, but so long as you follow those simple rules you should be fine.
 
Hey, have fun.  This game IS complicated, but it's not as complicated as people say it is and it's by far the easiest game in the series to get into.

[noname2200]

Does anyone here have tips to offer for people playing Ogre Battle for the first time?

Like Broodwars said, all your units should be set to "Attack Leader" at nearly all times (the exceptions being when the leader is already dead, and you're just picking off specific units).  Promoting your units requires that they hit some fairly specific requirements, the trickiest of which is alignment.  I can write you an entire essay on what alignment is, what it does, and how to manipulate it, but to be honest you're probably best off looking up the item duplication trick and making hundreds (yes, hundreds) of Urns of Chaos and Scrolls of Order; it IS cheating, but it will save you a massive headache.

I can't give more specific advice because I haven't played the game in years, but in general you're going to want to make sure that none of your back row units don't have someone up front to protect them from melee attacks.  If you're in it for the long term, try to keep your Chaos Frame (see Broodwars' post again) as high as possible, since most of the best unique characters in the game need that.

[Pandareus]

Hey, have fun.  This game IS complicated, but it's not as complicated as people say it is and it's by far the easiest game in the series to get into.

I'll try!
 
I'm pretty convinced that the SRPG genre isn't for me. I've played Fire Emblem and Disgaea, and neither felt as good to me as Advance Wars does. But I'm always willing to give it a try!
 
Thanks for the tips. And yeah, at a glance it does sound a bit less intimidating than the SNES game, for which I've recently found an essay on Jeremy Parish's website. It's an interesting read though, for sure, and I'm guessing a lot of what he explains carries over in the sequel.

[Crimm]

I'd also say find a unit structure that works. For me it looks like this:




Rear Row
Middle Row
Front Row


Empty Healer Empty
Empty Leader Empty
Fighter Fighter Fighter


That tends to hold out pretty well barring an ambush.

[broodwars]

I'd also say find a unit structure that works. For me it looks like this:




Rear Row
Middle Row
Front Row


Empty Healer Empty
Empty Leader Empty
Fighter Fighter Fighter

That tends to hold out pretty well barring an ambush.

I generally prefer:
 
Wizard Healer Wizard
Empty Empty Empty
Fighter Leader Empty
 
With some slight changes to the leader's position depending on if they're more effective in the front or back rows.  For instance, this formation works with Magnus' unit, but since Leia is more or less a mage in the back row I stick her in the back to take the place of a sorceress and put a Valkyrie up front in her place.

 
Sure, you leave a magic-wielder exposed, but meanwhile you slaughter the enemy unit's entire back rows with combination magic, usually killing the leader and sometimes a secondary character like a healer or mage.

[adadad]

I warned you all! But...the listeners voted, and they got what they wanted! SRPG discussion. Hoorah. Evidently people aren't sick yet of voting for RPGs in these polls.

PS I'm with Broodwars on the formation, mostly because I always found it profoundly satisfying when the two magic-users at the back would use combination magic.

[Crimm]

NEVER put your leader in front. Lose your leader the unit is boned. I mean, you can change someone else to leader and drag them to a reviver, but still.

[broodwars]

NEVER put your leader in front. Lose your leader the unit is boned. I mean, you can change someone else to leader and drag them to a reviver, but still.

Fortunately, that problem is solved with one very simple step: don't let your leader die, which is helped greatly by keeping your units parked in cities to regenerate between battles and keeping healing items on hand just in case.  I don't know if I've ever had a unit's leader die in all my time spent with OB64, and I'd wager I've played the game as much as you have.  The enemies are just too stupid to gun for your leader like you can theirs.

[Stratos]

Yeah, I think I only had a leader die once or twice when I played before and that was because I was pushing them way too hard in a fight.

And while it is hard to do, I love trying to level up the little generic spear guys until they become full fledged units.