Topic: New Tales game maybe announced for Wii

[UltimatePartyBear]

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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Ever met a fan of FFX? I've talked to at least four people who CRIED at the end of the game: the characters and their struggles immersed them so well that they actually CARED about them and what happened to them. That's unheard of for me. I've never played a FF game (other than CC) but stuff like that makes me curious.

I haven't played FFX, but I have cried (as in "teared up," not as in "openly wept") in reaction to a video game story before.  Movies, too.  I'd probably do the same for books if it weren't for the fact that they don't deliver the emotional payload quite as quickly and suddenly because you read at your own pace.  Most of my friends either never have or won't admit it.  I think it depends on a person's overall likelihood to do so and the depth of the connection the player makes to the character(s).  I say "makes" there because I think a large portion of a person's involvement in a story has to be intentional.  Sometimes a story just reaches out and grabs me, but more often than not I only really get drawn in after I've put enough thought into it, which obviously only happens if I'm at least a little interested to begin with.

Another thing that impacts the cry-factor is the music.  A string section swell punctuating a scene at just the right moment can really do me in.

As far as ToS goes, I don't recall crying at any point, but I did connect with a few of the characters.  I actually like the voice acting.  It features some of my favorite voice actors.  The dialogue was hindered by English's clunky polysyllabic words for its major concepts, I think.  And as for those concepts, I'm just happy nobody ever asked "What does it mean to exist?" or "Why must I fight?"

[JonLeung]

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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother

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I've never played a FF game (other than CC) but stuff like that makes me curious.

Never?  o_0

The series has gotten overrated as of late, but you can play the first six games on a Nintendo console or the handheld remakes, VII and XIII and XI are on the PC.  IX is emulatable on a PC (it's not illegal if you buy the actual FF IX game discs, right?), so really, X is the only "main" FF you need a PS2 for.  Oh, and XII after that comes out, but still...not very many.

I've played the first nine games, and let me tell you - it's like gaming history 101, games like FF, FF IV, FF VI, and FF IX should be highly recommended.  I'd say VII too but I'm hesitant to as that's the most overrated game in all of history.  It's not a bad game, but it's like everyone and their dog has played it already.  Oh, except you.

I like FF, but I don't like FF fanboys who only hopped on from VII or later.

 

[IceCold]

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You're not blue, are you?

Oh, no, no. I'm not in the group yet. No, I'm afraid I just blue myself..

Cookies awarded!

[Galford]

Tales games don't sell like they use too.  ToS was the first Tales game to be released in US since Tales of Destiny 2(Tales of Eternia).  It was sorta special for those who remember playing the original games.  

Also ToS was the last Tales game to come from Namco before they created a studio just for making Tales games.  ToS is often looked through rosy-colored glassed because it was a good RPG on a system the had very few RPGs.  

This is coming from someone who bought the game a few days after launch.

[Infernal Monkey]

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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother

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Originally posted by: KDR_11k

Ever met a fan of FFX? I've talked to at least four people who CRIED at the end of the game: the characters and their struggles immersed them so well that they actually CARED about them and what happened to them. That's unheard of for me. I've never played a FF game (other than CC) but stuff like that makes me curious.

Wow, that's pretty sad considering all the characters in FFX do all game is complain and whinge. Except for the ten minute cut scene of Yuna trying to laugh, and sounding like a cow. Yes. Ten minutes. Good work Square, you sure know how to make an interesting game. Maybe they cried with tears of joy because the nightmare was finally over and they could throw the game in the bin.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

What about coming from people who bought it the day UPS delivered it to EBgames, people who saw it as an enjoyable *game* that was next in line from a legacy of SNES action-RPGs, people who don't play "real" RPGs yet like to actively reach out and "touch" the enemy, manually, cuz they find such action-oriented combat enjoyable?

And of course there's some old-school charm, some neat treasures, and some great music which make up the choco-caramel fudge on an already hefty ice-cream-chocolate-brownie cake.  Not a pretty sugar sculpture (lol which some chefs drop), but something we'd definitely bite into today, tomorrow, and many days after.

[Infernal Monkey]

ToS was a great RPG. HARDKKKORE RPG fans dismiss it because there isn't enough teen angst in the game though. Same as Skies of Arcadia. NAW MAN NOT PLAYIN DAT CRAP WHERE MAH CRYING BITCHES AT. *Runs to purchase Square-Enix trash*

[wandering]

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Oh, no, no. I'm not in the group yet. No, I'm afraid I just blue myself..

Trying to get into show buisness, eh IceCold? I hope you're not a Never Nude, that could make things difficult...

[The Omen]

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Oh, no, no. I'm not in the group yet. No, I'm afraid I just blue myself..

There's got to be a better way to say that.

[NWR_pap64]

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Originally posted by: Infernal Monkey

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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother

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Originally posted by: KDR_11k

Ever met a fan of FFX? I've talked to at least four people who CRIED at the end of the game: the characters and their struggles immersed them so well that they actually CARED about them and what happened to them. That's unheard of for me. I've never played a FF game (other than CC) but stuff like that makes me curious.

Wow, that's pretty sad considering all the characters in FFX do all game is complain and whinge. Except for the ten minute cut scene of Yuna trying to laugh, and sounding like a cow. Yes. Ten minutes. Good work Square, you sure know how to make an interesting game. Maybe they cried with tears of joy because the nightmare was finally over and they could throw the game in the bin.

First of all, did you even play the game?


SPOILERS COMING UP







First of all, the only two characters that I remember complained the most were Tidus and Rikku. The one reason Tidus complained a lot was that he was a somewhat spoiled, rash teen jock who was having somewhat of a good life till SIN and Auron ripped him out of his world and into the dark world of Spira. Tidus is basically the cocky out of towner that ends up in a town or world either by accident or by force and learns to love and appreciate the world and it's people. Rikku was basically the comic relief of the game.

I admit it's been a while till I played the game, but I don't remember anyone else being whiny and bitchy throughout the whole game. Do you need a refresher course? OK...

Yuna was a summoner who loved Spira so much that she was willing to sacrifice her own life in order to bring peace temporarily to her world. She never complained about it. In fact, she was a soldier, willing to ignore her own dreams and desires in order make sure everyone else has a happy, long life. The only time she was burdened by her duties was when she performed her first sending and cried at the end. After that, she learned to get over it and continue her duties. And she never even complained about it...

Then there's Auron. Auron was a warrior that even after death he couldn't stop fighting. He kept the promise he made to his friends (Braska and Jecht) and watched over both Tidus and Yuna. He bravely battled against the corruption of Spira's religion, even when he was supposed to be dead. Not to mention he was a badass to boot. And he never even complained. In fact, I am surprised that Square didn't write a part in which he smacked Tidus for complaining a lot.

Kimarhi was belittled by his own people. They ridiculed him for having a broken horn and never even truly accepted him as one of their own. And yet, he bravely protected Yuna and never even said a word about his issues. And he never even complained...

Wakka was a bit of a comic relief character and he was prone to complaining in some parts, but even then his character was grounded in reality and there were many parts in which his character shined (sp?).

Lulu, despite her dark and gothic looking demeanor was perhaps the most sound of all the characters. She emoted the least of all the characters, yet her presence was a very important one throughout the entire story.









END SPOILERS

Seriously, did you even PLAY FFX, or are you trying to pass off some random thought as actual fact for the sake of arguing?

I ask you this because a player that HAS played the game will NEVER say that ALL of the characters in FFX "do all game is complain and whinge". That player may disagree with the emotional power of the story and argue the overall quality of the game, but will never say that ALL of the characters complain because that player actually sat down with the game and played through it and actually paid attention to what was going on in the story.

[Infernal Monkey]

Yes, I played it. I beat it. TIDUS VANISHES, OH NO! I watched the bonus DVD that wasn't actually a bonus at all because the game was $110. It was a terrible, terrible game. Every cutscene that involved Yuna had her whinging about not wanting to defeat that giant killer whale, then Tidus would show up and be all sad because Yuna was sad. She never got over any of it. Wakka was cool, yes. Probably the best character Square's come up with since Barret.  

[KDR_11k]

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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother

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Originally posted by: KDR_11k For a game with elaborate fighting scenes that makes you spend exorbitant amounts of time fighting random monsters, the gameplay is surprisingly awful.

So what didn't you like about FFX's gameplay? What did you think about the real-time combat difference from previous FF games? How about the leveling system? What about the grid-based attack acquisition system did you like/dislike? Did you find it too easy/hard?

Nice details* but it's pointless if the game itself is way too repetitive. Any enemy you encountered had a set strategy to use and while that may have been nice for the first two or three encounters with that enemy it's mind numbing if you have to fight four enemies fifty times in a row. Set strategies work if they still require skill to execute but in FFX? Nada.

The lack of ATB was nice since ATB is a completely idiotic concept, the levelling grid lacked any sort of overview like "this is a mage path", on any branch you'd have to look through it, count the upgrades and determine what that path would do. I'm not willing to read through 40 nodes and their statistics and calculate what path makes sense. The mechanism itself was tedious since it had to be done manually so I usually waited with redeeming the upgrade points until I've gained 3-4 levelups.

I won't even talk about that sidegame. What a stupid idea.

*= Actually, no. Offensive magic was almost completely pointless except for exploiting the occassional weakness since usually a physical attack did more damage.

[Smash_Brother]

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Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Nice details* but it's pointless if the game itself is way too repetitive. Any enemy you encountered had a set strategy to use and while that may have been nice for the first two or three encounters with that enemy it's mind numbing if you have to fight four enemies fifty times in a row. Set strategies work if they still require skill to execute but in FFX? Nada.

Funny, you just described ToS's overworld and dungeon exploration perfectly, just with less strategy involved since every enemy typically had the exact same strategy: beat the f*ck out of it. Granted, it was always fun beating the f*ck out of it (or them, since you could typically get many at once), but that doesn't excuse the fact that the combat was entirely based upon getting in its face and trying to pull off as many combo moves as possible and have the other characters heal during the difficult battles (some of the bosses).

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The lack of ATB was nice since ATB is a completely idiotic concept, the levelling grid lacked any sort of overview like "this is a mage path", on any branch you'd have to look through it, count the upgrades and determine what that path would do. I'm not willing to read through 40 nodes and their statistics and calculate what path makes sense. The mechanism itself was tedious since it had to be done manually so I usually waited with redeeming the upgrade points until I've gained 3-4 levelups.

Again, how was ToS better? Discovering different moves was an interesting way of doing things, but it overall was pretty straight forward when it came to leveling.

[KDR_11k]

The difference is that in ToS you do the fighting and you need to develop strategies for dealing the most damage possible and avoiding attacks. In FFX you just select attack, select the enemy and maybe repeat that. Bashing in heads can be done in many ways, with many different characters. In FFX there's one specific character and one specific move to deal with each enemy. Imagine if in ToS each enemy would die from a single attack if you chose the right character and the right move (and were allowed to choose freely from all characters, not just the ones on the field). It'd just be "Okay, that enemy needs Lloyd doing an uppercut *slash* done, that guy needs Genis casting a fireball *boom*". While the occassional trick to defeat an enemy is nice and brings variety, having all enemies require these tricks is stupid since you have them down after one or two tries and (at least in FFX) there's no real way to mess up so fighting is more like matching pairs than actual strategy or skill.

Again, how was ToS better? Discovering different moves was an interesting way of doing things, but it overall was pretty straight forward when it came to leveling.

It didn't require me to look through a long list of possible upgrades to make sure I didn't choose a path that would leave me with a useless character (like I've done with that beastman guy in FFX). Level ups happened automatically, you didn't have to move a token and select all adjacent fields for each character and levelup.

[Smash_Brother]

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Originally posted by: KDR_11k
The difference is that in ToS you do the fighting and you need to develop strategies for dealing the most damage possible and avoiding attacks.

Ok, I stopped reading right there.

Are we even playing the same game? Combat in ToS consisted of:

1. Get in the enemy's face.

2. Try to chain as many combos together as possible.

3. Set your bots to heal and use items when needed.

4. Repeat.

The only times I ever even bothered using magic against enemies is when they could only be damaged by it. My friend and I went through the entire game like that and I think we were defeated maybe twice.

Why bother using different characters when Lloyd and Regal absolutely annihilate everything in their path with combos?

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It didn't require me to look through a long list of possible upgrades to make sure I didn't choose a path that would leave me with a useless character (like I've done with that beastman guy in FFX). Level ups happened automatically, you didn't have to move a token and select all adjacent fields for each character and levelup.

You mean they made the player's input factor into the outcome of the characters? God FORBID!

Some of us actually like dictating how our characters level, progress and change, not the generic "Level Up" in ToS which gave your character some more stats and an occasional new move would pop up (90% of which were useless, though).

[18 Days]

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Why bother using different characters when Lloyd and Regal absolutely annihilate everything in their path with combos?

So you never learned Hammer Rain and teamed it up with Sword Rain: Alpha in a Unison Attack then? Your loss.  
You should probably reply when you understand how much misinformation you've been saying.

[Smash_Brother]

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Originally posted by: 18 Days So you never learned Hammer Rain and teamed it up with Sword Rain: Alpha in a Unison Attack then? Your loss.

I never used the unison attacks at all, actually. They weren't worth the trouble.

My friend and I just generally tried to rack up the largest combo possible and we did a decent job of it.

This is without using hourglasses, unity attacks, etc. Just straight up combo tagging:

...And was fun doing it.

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You should probably reply when you understand how much misinformation you've been saying.

You should probably only drop a line like that after citing my actual use of misinformation, otherwise you just look like a fan of ToS who has no basis for argument and must instead fall back on snide jabs like this one.

[18 Days]

Can I drop this one?

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Some of us actually like dictating how our characters level, progress and change, not the generic "Level Up" in ToS which gave your character some more stats and an occasional new move would pop up (90% of which were useless, though).

Did you even know what the Technical/Strike alignment did? How about EX Gems?

Also while 82 hits is impressive, still falls short of the 100 required for the Combo Master title.


And if anything, the very different nature of our combat styles speaks for the depth of the combat in Tales itself.

[Smash_Brother]

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Originally posted by: 18 Days
Did you even know what the Technical/Strike alignment did? How about EX Gems?

That picture is proof that I do: Zelos is receiving a bonus from the Ex gems he had equipped, is he not?

As for tech strikes, it's been too long to remember. What did they do?

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Also while 82 hits is impressive, still falls short of the 100 required for the Combo Master title.

It's easily doable with hourglasses and uni-attacks. Have you seen the video with the 1000+ combo?

The point is that this picture is just two friends timing their combos to ensure that one begins right as another ends, no items, no special attacks, just timing and teamwork.

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And if anything, the very different nature of our combat styles speaks for the depth of the combat in Tales itself.

Yeah, I can agree with that. I never said the combat wasn't deep, only that delving into that depth was largely unnecessary. The combat is, without question, the place where the game shines the absolute most.

For curiosity's sake, though, what was your finish time on the game?

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

=D

How about 203-hit combo SEX by a solo player who enjoyed learning how to make full use of the ENTIRE party?  (me)

fahk the hourglasses

[Smash_Brother]

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Originally posted by: Professional 666
=D

How about 203-hit combo SEX by a solo player who enjoyed learning how to make full use of the ENTIRE party?  (me)

fahk the hourglasses

ORLY?

And my combo didn't involve unity attacks or items.  

[KDR_11k]

Try to chain as many combos together as possible.

Still meets my definition of strategy more than "select the character the game is telling you to select, choose attack". In order to maximize damage you'd have to find out how to chain the combos best and what gives the most damage per time or MP. Even if theeffort is small, it's more than what is needed for FFX.

I never used the unison attacks at all, actually. They weren't worth the trouble.

They did a lot of free damage. If you used the combination attacks some attacks hit double or thrice, you can easily rack up huge amounts of damage without sacrificing any MP in the process. Plus it pauses the game while you're doing the damage.

The only times I ever even bothered using magic against enemies is when they could only be damaged by it. My friend and I went through the entire game like that and I think we were defeated maybe twice.

Why bother using different characters when Lloyd and Regal absolutely annihilate everything in their path with combos?

Human players are vastly more effective than AI controlled ones so the game becomes a lot easier when you've got two or more people. Magic makes for nice fire support. A difference to FFX is that in ToS you can keep out of the enemy's range when using magic.

Yeah, I can agree with that. I never said the combat wasn't deep, only that delving into that depth was largely unnecessary. The combat is, without question, the place where the game shines the absolute most.

Same for Pokemon when playing against the AI, you never needed to know about all that tournament quality stuff when you could just use a high level Pokemon and use brute force even against elemental advantages. Few RPGs are hard enough to require the full pallette of the combat system to be employed.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother

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Originally posted by: Professional 666
=D

How about 203-hit combo SEX by a solo player who enjoyed learning how to make full use of the ENTIRE party?  (me)

fahk the hourglasses

ORLY?

And my combo didn't involve unity attacks or items.

Save your silly cheat values for the gamefaqs kids.  This is PGC.  -- that poor Ice Warrior deserves a fair, lvl. 97 fight.

And I've never used an hourglass, nor bothered to get any (cuz running around as Zelos to pick up free stuff from women is a waste of my time).

My combo video (which is my attempt to replicate a video of a Japanese player getting 210 hits in the same scenario which I saw before ToS hit stateside) involves Lloyd leading the barrage, with Colette and Presea assigned to C-stick attacks, attempting to chain with Genis' spellcasting.  I top off at around 100 hits when the dragon "gives up" and sits down at the point where the game forces the combo counter to stop counting (which i think is stupid), then I initiate the Unison Attack to tack-on the other hundred hits.

[Luigi Dude]

Well the big annoucement turned out to be just that Namco's going to remake Tales of Destiny for the PS2 and Tales of Phantasia for the PSP.  Plus their releasing a new Tales of the World game for the PSP.

So all it ended up being was that they wanted to milk the series with even more ports and remakes.

Here's the link

[Mario]

Major flaccidton.