Topic: What do people say about Nintendo being market leader again?

[Chozo Ghost]

It is amazing what a difference just two years can make. Back then, Nintendo was in third place and all the analysts were saying the Wii would be Nintendo's last console and then they would go third party and all that stuff, but now no one is saying that. Some are still clinging to the idea (hope?) that the Wii is just a fad and like all fads it will pass. But I think they are wrong too, because people said the same about Pokemon when it first came out like 10 years ago. The Wii has been out for over a year and it's popularity has only INCREASED. I've never heard of a console being sold out this long after launching, nor sell for $819 in bundles on Amazon until now.

But what I'd like to know is what you guys have heard from other people when they talk about Nintendo. Do the Nintendo haters still bash the company as being "k!ddie"? Or have the abandoned Sony/MS and now think Nintendo is the cool company to follow? Do they think the Wii is just a fad and that Blu-ray and sixaxis are the real future of gaming, or do they think the Wii remote concept is here to stay? That's the thing I want to know. I don't hear a lot of Nintendo bashing going on anymore so I'm wondering if it is still going on within certain circles.

It is very funny to think of Nintendo haters being shocked and bewildered by a company they had thought was on its last legs suddenly emerge as the leader once again. I can't think of anything else like this ever happening. I guess it would be like some third party candidate like Perot or Nader suddenly winning an election when most people were saying third parties can't win. Or maybe it is like how Alexander the great had defeated a Persian army that was 5 times his size..

It's just like the late 80's-early 90's again, and I have to say sometimes I wonder if I'm just dreaming. I mean, how could Nintendo be in 1st place again? For that matter, how could the Playstation 3 be in 3rd? Have I entered into some Bizarro world or something?

[Plugabugz]

The thing about the Wii is that it's target market means it's not going to cater to strictly "us" anymore. Because of that, some people feel the games are too easy and its "everyone orientation" means some of the ball busting, story driven, loli-laden games we want may not appear.

However,  the more people who want to have fun means the quality required can drop. Developers can get away with being lazy and still sell into their millions and millions. Hudson did it with Mario Party 8, and despite the large amounts of criticism (the first one hidden in the title - 8!) it's still one of the better selling games on Wii. So they'll be ENCOURAGED to keep doing it.

It doesn't feel like the nintendo of the 90's because they are effectively the monopoly in this "new era" and don't really have to try so hard anymore.  

[LuigiHann]

Quote
Originally posted by: Plugabugz
It doesn't feel like the nintendo of the 90's because they are effectively the monopoly in this "new era" and don't really have to try so hard anymore.

Nintendo's original monopoly, in the 80s, was when they were awesome. The 90s was when they made some of their greatest games, but it was also when they started failing. How weird is that? It's like the whole industry is built to reward mediocrity and punish quality. And it's not new.

[Deguello]

Well the ones who aren't shouting "fad" are carefully building their hardcore gamer ivory towers from which they may piss down with disdain on anybody who dares start playing videogames now, 10-year-old or no.

3rd parties seem to resent that Nintendo is building their new empire with their own two hands, much like they did with the DS, but their resentment is fostered by the reality that they had opportunity to get a berth on Nintendo's Gravy Train both times and elected instead to proselytize on the dangers "not using all the graphics ever" and "children having the gall to play videogames" BOTH times.  Unfortunately for them (and particularly in Japan) their greatest fear of begging Nintendo to let them program for the Wii is quickly becoming a hard reality that they'll have to accept, particularly in this age of rising development costs and less avenues for sale (The PC market being basically dead and all.)  Maybe they'll have to learn to deal with lower end graphics like the seemed content to for 4 generations in a row.

Game journalists make no bones about slamming the Wii, particularly online ones, whose wrath is quickly earned by not stroking their massive egos with PR packages and advertising revenue.  Nintendo usurped them and went straight to the consumers and gamers.  They are also leading the charge in the gamer "schism" between those labeled "casual" and those labeled "hardcore" by acting all indignant whenever Nintendogs or Brain Training are brought up.  The "Casual" and "Hardcore" labels are an extension of the "Nintendo is for children" label, only re-engineered to deal with the massive weight of the 5-29, over-30, over-40, over-50, and 60+ markets that seem to be all Nintendo's at the moment.  No longer an ageist track, no it is an evidence-less based judgment call based simply on the games you enjoy.  Thankfully their influence appears to be crumbling at the seams, which will require new journalists with less prejudice to take over for them.

But as for me, DS in one hand and Wiimote in the other, I'm happy as a clam, particularly with the DS.  The full weight of the DS's library as well as the most creative games ever to grace any console or handheld, Trauma Center in particular, make it quite possibly the best game system of all time.  Not that you'll hear that from the games press, but you'll hear that from the gamers' lips, which is good enough for me.

[Tanookisuit]

I was listening to an interview with Nolan Bushnell on NPR the other day (about the 30th anniversery of Pong).  He was talking about what a phenomenon it was because anyone could play it, women could play it as well or better than men, and no one was intimidated by it.  He said that he saw games swinging back to this more "casual" style, and he was excited by it.

What I have seen:  I have seen high school students who have never had a console buy a Wii.  I have seen college students sell their PS2 and 360s to buy a Wii.  BUT I have seen people that work at Gamestop and in the magazine Game Informer constantly bash the Wii and push the other systems.

Personally, I don't want to play the most badass 1st person shooter out there.  I don't need half-naked wrestlers pummeling each other on my TV.  I just want to have fun.  I saw one of the new PS3 commercials with all the game footage lurching forth from their black system and I realized- I'm no longer a "hardcore" gamer.  And I'm fine with that.

[Bill Aurion]

"I realized- I'm no longer a "hardcore" gamer."

You just aren't "hardcore" in the way the gaming media likes to portray it now...If you use the definition of hardcore that was around pre-Wii, you're in the clear...You aren't going to magically become a "casual" gamer just because you enjoy Brain Training...

[Nick DiMola]

Bill and Deg are both spot on here. Just because you aren't "hardcore" in terms of what the industry considers hardcore, doesn't mean you really aren't (if that makes any sense). I love games. I'm totally hardcore about them. I spend my free time learning about them, telling others about them, and playing them. Games are my #1 past time and a source of great happiness in my life. In my eyes that makes me hardcore. Playing FPS games and Madden certainly doesn't make you hardcore, it makes you a trend follower and not truly a hardcore gaming enthusiast.

As far as the Wii goes. I agree with everything Deg said. The gaming media is trying to tell you the Wii is a fad and that it isn't hardcore enough, but the fact of the matter is, the Wii (and DS) is reaching demographics gaming has never seen before. It is turning people on to gaming in a big way, and as an enthusiast of the industry this is just fantastic. I couldn't be happier with the success of the system and I hope to see it continue onward. The more people the Wii reaches the better. It means a stronger presence of gaming in culture and to me that is the ultimate achievement for gaming. My Wii and DS libraries are always growing, and between these two systems, Nintendo has totally reinvigorated creativity in the industry. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise, the Wii is a trend setter and an opportunity for innovation and gaming will benefit greatly from it's presence (and popularity).

[Ian Sane]

The Wii gets the most talk with my co-workers and relatives and people who never would talk about games before.  With people closer to my own age though or with teenagers I hear about the Xbox 360 more.  It seems the Xbox 360 is more popular with the people that prior to the Wii would talk about videogames with me.  So in that sense as the Nintendo fan I'm still somewhat of the outsider with the gamers around me only now they're more familiar with Nintendo's current console because its so popular.

The Wii's third party support really is pretty lame for a market leading console.  Thus the high demand seems fad-like because back in the old days before blue ocean and non-gamers the Xbox 360 logically would be the market leader based on its third party support.

[darknight06]

Um, Ian, the NES was a blue ocean console.  So was the Gameboy.  Just because there was no term for it back then didn't mean that the business strategy itself didn't exist.  Blue Ocean has nothing to do with just appealing to casuals, it's about growing the market which is exactly what they both did.  Funny thing is, anyone old enough would know that things really haven't changed all that much. The same way they're talking about how 360 and PS3 are so much better than the Wii is the exact same way these same analyst and "hardcore" gamers back then used to blast the NES.  Back then hardcore gamers were on the PC.  I used to hear it from several kids I used to know back in grade school who had PCs that constantly told me to sell the NES so I could get some "real" games.

[Kairon]

Ironically, the NES was "blue-market" for opening up the kid market (as well as having games everyone could play). Yeah, back in those days, the PC was seen as the successor to the consoles that had just crashed and burned an entire industry. Nowadays... kids once again can't afford the PS3 and XBox 360, and both of those consoles are aiming for the enthusiast crowd of over 18 in terms of accessibility and content. The Wii... is a spiritual successor to the NES in a lot of ways.

[GoldenPhoenix]

You are ALL wrong, CNET says Wii will be in last place and PS3 will win so eat that all you fanbois!

[Kairon]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
It seems the Xbox 360 is more popular with the people that prior to the Wii would talk about videogames with me.  So in that sense as the Nintendo fan I'm still somewhat of the outsider with the gamers around me only now they're more familiar with Nintendo's current console because its so popular.

I can generally agree with this and it causes me conflicted feelings. I want the same broadband acceptance that the PS2 got, and that's not possible without converting over these supposedly traditional gamers... feh.

What can be done about this? Is it something to be worried about? I just... blargh.

This is one of the reasons I'm fixated on third parties. Every little inroad that we can make on traditional and niche gamers, be it from Atlus support like Baroque, Tecmo Support on Rygar and Fatal Frame, or even lesser known support like Codemasters with their Wizardology/Dragonology exclusives, every little title announced for the Wii that would have normally been announced on the PS2 should be celebrated. (oh ho, is there any doubt as to how much of a fanboi I am?)

[GoldenPhoenix]

When 3rd parties actually put out some decent traditional games and give them a fair advertising budget I'll care. Until then, they have no one to blame but themselves.

[Kairon]

I don't want third parties to crash and burn, it's true. But in a Nintendo-centric fanboi view, third-party migration to the Wii would be the final validation of Nintendo's success.

[NWR_pap64]

Funny this was posted...

I've been reading A LOT of articles about how the Wii "is eventually going to fail" and "the PS3 will be back on top". My question is for how long will analysts keep saying the same thing?

Its been a year already and the Wii is still sold out. Can you recall a game console that is still sold out after a year of release? Truly, if the Wii was a novelty it would've died sooner.

[UncleBob]

It's easy for an analyst to say something like "Oh, in four years, the PS3 will be on top!".  In four years, he'll either be wrong and no one will remember, or he'll be right and he'll be able to brag "Oh, I called that four years ago!"

I wonder if this same analyst would be willing to bet $1,000 on his claim...

[Ian Sane]

"But in a Nintendo-centric fanboi view, third-party migration to the Wii would be the final validation of Nintendo's success."

I just want the third party support because I want those game to be on the console I own.  It isn't fair after ten years of putting up with weak third party support to finally have Nintendo be number one again only to have the "rules" changed so that the benefits one traditionally had from being number one no longer apply.  The whole reason I wanted Nintendo to be number one was to get the third parties.  If the Wii can't do that it's just another Gamecube to me.

Any analyst suggesting the PS3 is going to be on top has no idea what he's talking about.  If the Wii slips the Xbox 360 will take the number one spot.  The PS3 is irrelevent.  Sony made a console that's too damn expensive and they can't afford to lower the price.  It's quite clear that no one wants the damn thing and that's just not going to change.  Former exclusives are being ported to the Xbox 360.  We saw that with the Cube and it means the console is finished.  Interest in the PS3 won't pick up if the best games are also on a competing console that's more popular.

[Strell]

It's very simple.

Gamers hated Nintendo before the Wii.

And they still do.

So not a whole lot has really changed when you consider the "hardcore" sector.

[IceCold]

I don't think anyone can put it better than Deguello did.

We've known for a long time now that third parties will think of anything to prevent them from developing marquee games for Nintendo consoles. I mean, hell, look at the DS - it sold more than 1.5 million in North America in November alone, yet it's not getting near as much support as it should.

A "major" game from a third party would go a long way for the Wii, and hopefully next year we'll start to see some of those.

[ReverendNoahWhateley]

I fully expect the Playstation 3 to rise from the tomb after three years and ascend into consumer heaven.

[redgiemental]

I've always loved Nintendo games and systems. Theier products are almost always well designed and well put together and I loved every Nintendo system I've ever owned.

The Wii is very innovative and opens many possibilites for new game experiences so I'm pleased to see it doing well and encouraging developers to make more games for it and thus giving me lots of wonderful new things to play.

I also have to admit I like Nintendo being on top in the same way a fan of a sports team likes to see their team do well. A kind of very strong brand loyalty so yes I feel very good about it overall.

It is looking pretty good for Nintendo.

[31 Flavas]

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon

I can generally agree with this and it causes me conflicted feelings. I want the same broadband acceptance that the PS2 got, and that's not possible without converting over these supposedly traditional gamers... feh.

Yea, I can agree with your feelings too, the broad acceptance. I'm an optimist though, so my feelings are that this will happen. Broad acceptance. Not only from gamers, but also parents / congress people. The latter will no doubt take longer, but it'll happen. I mean, games aren't the first thing to cause controversy with parents and statesmen. What about Movies and Comic books? My guess is that all this commotion and upheaval that Nintendo has wrought onto video gamers will fade away and we'll still have games like Bioshock and Half-life and that what ever comes to be won't be as bad at all.

[UERD]

It'll be interesting to see what happens.

The 360 and PS3 are ultimately moving towards what is essentially a bastardized version of the PC experience (the PC market is far from dead, by the way...c.f. Blizzard...), at least in North America. Look at the types of things that PS360 games are getting or have become standard recently- map and level editors, online play, patches and map packs- all long-standing PC conventions. They'll always be around for those who can't be bothered or don't have the technical fortitude to set up their computers to play those selfsame games (e.g. BioShock, any XBox FPS, etc), or for those people who want the old 'main-line hardcore' games and franchises- the Final Fantasies, Metal Gear series, and other heavy-hitters that won't move to Wii eventually.

Will the PS360 kill the PC market, or will the opposite happen? I don't think either will happen, for the aforementioned reason. PC gaming will almost certainly have the technological advantage and the superior FPS/RTS/whatever control scheme in the long term, but the PC-contender consoles will always have that 'casual hardcore'/'technically disinclined' sector to draw upon. (Note- I'm not really using 'technically disinclined' as a pejorative term here, I'm using it to emphasize how consoles move along the 'technical capability' - 'ease of use' continuum in order to attract people who wouldn't be playing those sorts of games otherwise.)

What am I saying here? I guess I'm trying to make two points: first, that the divergent foci that Nintendo are trying to emphasize with the Wii represent the right direction for the console's future (same-room multiplayer gameplay, control scheme, etc), and secondly that the few idiot PS3/360 gamers who brag about being '1337 h4rdc0r3' need to STFU.  

[ShyGuy]

Ok, I admit it, I had to lookup "foci"

[UERD]

That cat creeps the **** out of me.

I say that in the best way possible, of course.